Does creativity go down as format size goes up?

ChristianRock · 12-23-2019, 01:00 PM - **1 Like**

We are now in page 4 and I believe I'll be the first one to say it, but...

...anyone looking at gear as a motivator (or excuse) for their creativity, is looking at the wrong factor...

SirTomster · 12-23-2019, 01:17 PM

I can actually see where the OP was going.

With a "lesser" camera you might think you need to work harder to create that image. Where having the "flagship" means that you do not have to work harder.

But we "should" know that is BS. It all depends on the creator of the images. If they feel that having the top of the line will turn them into their favorite photographer, they have a sad future in front them.

Now there are some situations where a newer camera will make things easier. But that is the technical side of things.

It has nothing to do with the creativity you bring to the table. If you feel your camera is holding you back, the odds are that once you get that flagship, top of the line, camera that nothing will change.

y0chang · 12-23-2019, 07:23 PM

At first everything is new to you, you have the joy of discovering something for the first time. Then you go through a gear phase, where every gear upgrade is important to you, and you have the joy of acquiring gear. Finally, there is a stage where you begin to learn again, and you have the joy of knowledge and understanding. You realize the first 2 phases are necessary but only steps towards your goal. Its just that people confuse the joy of acquiring gear with the joy of self-improvement. The former is only satisfies for a moment, while the self improvement changes you for the better.

**Mikesul** · 12-23-2019, 07:43 PM

Originally posted by y0chang

At first everything is new to you, you have the joy of discovering something for the first time. Then you go through a gear phase, where every gear upgrade is important to you, and you have the joy of acquiring gear. Finally, there is a stage where you begin to learn again, and you have the joy of knowledge and understanding. You realize the first 2 phases are necessary but only steps towards your goal. Its just that people confuse the joy of acquiring gear with the joy of self-improvement. The former is only satisfies for a moment, while the self improvement changes you for the better.

Well put! That sounds very familiar.

**monochrome** · 12-23-2019, 07:48 PM - **2 Likes**

When I got the K-1 I became even more gear-centered and my image quality and engagement declined for a while. Later, once I became familiar with the camera and how my lenses work with the sensor, creativity increased. I can do things at the margins - or with different lenses because of the format change - I could not do with K-3.

redpit · 12-23-2019, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by DogLover

Are you implying that the K-1 is such an incredible camera that you no longer have to try as hard to take good photos? That's obviously not true but even if it was, "good" photos and "creative" photos can be two entirely different things. If anything, a more capable camera should lead to increased creativity, IMO. It opens up new opportunities that you probably didn't have before.

^^ This is exactly how I see it too!

HoutHans · 12-24-2019, 01:56 AM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

Could you provide examples where digital allow creativity not possible with film?

I never said it was impossible, I said I wouldn't dare to take nighttime photographs (other than astro) on film. .

MJKoski · 12-24-2019, 03:31 AM

It is the 3:2 aspect ratio which kills creativity. This why I prefer Huawei P20 Pro to K-1 in casual snapping.

**Rondec** · 12-24-2019, 03:36 AM

I just think we are using the term "Creativity" pretty loosely. Does this mean taking sharp, well exposed images? Does it mean waking up early and capturing a sunrise at a spot you scouted earlier?

Certainly most of us are not creating great art. We are capturing little bits of the world around us. I would argue that full frame and APS-C are more similar than they are different. Yes, you have a bit more dynamic range and high iso ability with a K-1 than a K3 and depth of field is a little more shallow, but the reality is that the K-1 is a "slower" camera than the K3. It only does a bit over 4 frames a second. It does a lot more thinking before it empties its buffer. If anything all of this should make one slow down and think about the process.

People will continue to take the same sort of images with a K-1 as they took when they shot with APS-C. They may gradually get better if they attempt to improve their skill, but the style and eye aren't likely to change just because they have a sensor that is a little bigger.

biz-engineer · 12-24-2019, 04:00 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by MJKoski

It is the 3:2 aspect ratio which kills creativity. This why I prefer Huawei P20 Pro to K-1 in casual snapping.

Try to be creative with 3:2

HoutHans · 12-24-2019, 04:10 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

I just think we are using the term "Creativity" pretty loosely. Does this mean taking sharp, well exposed images? Does it mean waking up early and capturing a sunrise at a spot you scouted earlier?

Certainly most of us are not creating great art. We are capturing little bits of the world around us. I would argue that full frame and APS-C are more similar than they are different. Yes, you have a bit more dynamic range and high iso ability with a K-1 than a K3 and depth of field is a little more shallow, but the reality is that the K-1 is a "slower" camera than the K3. It only does a bit over 4 frames a second. It does a lot more thinking before it empties its buffer. If anything all of this should make one slow down and think about the process.

People will continue to take the same sort of images with a K-1 as they took when they shot with APS-C. They may gradually get better if they attempt to improve their skill, but the style and eye aren't likely to change just because they have a sensor that is a little bigger.

Well, don't get us, or me at least, started on what creativity is... I just read a piece this morning in the Guardian about the effects of instagram and the likes not just on the actual sites that get destroyed, but also on the way people experience a place. They all seek to get that exact same shot. This is definitely noty what creativity is. But for a positive definition, anything beyond 'having some form of idea of how you'd like to portray something' is sketchy for me.

biz-engineer · 12-24-2019, 04:16 AM

How is creativity defined here BTW?

wanderer2 · 12-24-2019, 04:19 AM

Originally posted by barondla

Fear it is often true. Too early to tell if it will be true for me and the K-1. Hope not. Does anyone feel full frame has diminished their creativity?

Almost didn't buy the K-1 and join ff because it might cause a drop in creativity. But the Pentax crop offering was missing many features I wanted. Some, like gps, could be added, but then a new KP ended up costing as much as a slightly used K-1.

Thanks,
barondla

No, my creativity improved. Where did that notion ever come from??

**Rondec** · 12-24-2019, 04:21 AM

Originally posted by HoutHans

Well, don't get us, or me at least, started on what creativity is... I just read a piece this morning in the Guardian about the effects of instagram and the likes not just on the actual sites that get destroyed, but also on the way people experience a place. They all seek to get that exact same shot. This is definitely noty what creativity is. But for a positive definition, anything beyond 'having some form of idea of how you'd like to portray something' is sketchy for me.

I guess the question is why we take photos. I have two basic reasons. One is that I am documenting my kids lives as they grow up. Every year I make a photo album with high spots of the year and journal about different things and funny things they said in the year. Even now, they enjoy looking through those albums and remembering past trips or fun times. At this point my images of them are pretty good -- they aren't out of focus and they are well exposed.

The second thing I shoot are landscapes. For me, that is more about the process. Waking up early, going out and taking photos of the little corner of Virginia I find myself in now. It can be cows in a field, the Staunton River, a country road before dawn -- it is just about being out there in the stillness. There is nothing like the majesty that is found in other places, but there is still a beauty to be seen and felt and I will capture a bit of it with my camera, if I can.

Most all of what we shoot has been shot before. Creativity to me is blazing your own trail and finding something different and hopefully better than what everyone else is capturing, but even without that, the journey is what is really important. Most of us have to figure out how to capture the typical shot and do it well before we move on to figuring out how to work outside the box.

Not a Number · 12-24-2019, 04:27 AM

The size and weight of larger format cameras would create new challenges and foster creativity I should think.

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12-23-2019, 01:00 PM - 1 Like	#46
ChristianRock Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: People's Republic of America Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,910	We are now in page 4 and I believe I'll be the first one to say it, but... ...anyone looking at gear as a motivator (or excuse) for their creativity, is looking at the wrong factor...

12-23-2019, 01:17 PM	#47
SirTomster Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 416	I can actually see where the OP was going. With a "lesser" camera you might think you need to work harder to create that image. Where having the "flagship" means that you do not have to work harder. But we "should" know that is BS. It all depends on the creator of the images. If they feel that having the top of the line will turn them into their favorite photographer, they have a sad future in front them. Now there are some situations where a newer camera will make things easier. But that is the technical side of things. It has nothing to do with the creativity you bring to the table. If you feel your camera is holding you back, the odds are that once you get that flagship, top of the line, camera that nothing will change.

12-23-2019, 07:23 PM	#48
y0chang Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: United States Posts: 793	At first everything is new to you, you have the joy of discovering something for the first time. Then you go through a gear phase, where every gear upgrade is important to you, and you have the joy of acquiring gear. Finally, there is a stage where you begin to learn again, and you have the joy of knowledge and understanding. You realize the first 2 phases are necessary but only steps towards your goal. Its just that people confuse the joy of acquiring gear with the joy of self-improvement. The former is only satisfies for a moment, while the self improvement changes you for the better.

12-23-2019, 07:43 PM	#49
Mikesul Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,594	Originally posted by y0chang At first everything is new to you, you have the joy of discovering something for the first time. Then you go through a gear phase, where every gear upgrade is important to you, and you have the joy of acquiring gear. Finally, there is a stage where you begin to learn again, and you have the joy of knowledge and understanding. You realize the first 2 phases are necessary but only steps towards your goal. Its just that people confuse the joy of acquiring gear with the joy of self-improvement. The former is only satisfies for a moment, while the self improvement changes you for the better. Well put! That sounds very familiar.

12-23-2019, 07:48 PM - 2 Likes	#50
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	When I got the K-1 I became even more gear-centered and my image quality and engagement declined for a while. Later, once I became familiar with the camera and how my lenses work with the sensor, creativity increased. I can do things at the margins - or with different lenses because of the format change - I could not do with K-3.

12-23-2019, 11:04 PM	#51
redpit Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Greece Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,857	Originally posted by DogLover Are you implying that the K-1 is such an incredible camera that you no longer have to try as hard to take good photos? That's obviously not true but even if it was, "good" photos and "creative" photos can be two entirely different things. If anything, a more capable camera should lead to increased creativity, IMO. It opens up new opportunities that you probably didn't have before. ^^ This is exactly how I see it too!

12-24-2019, 01:56 AM	#52
HoutHans Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Appingedam Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,117	Originally posted by biz-engineer Could you provide examples where digital allow creativity not possible with film? I never said it was impossible, I said I wouldn't dare to take nighttime photographs (other than astro) on film. .

12-24-2019, 03:31 AM	#53
MJKoski Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,784	It is the 3:2 aspect ratio which kills creativity. This why I prefer Huawei P20 Pro to K-1 in casual snapping.

12-24-2019, 03:36 AM	#54
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,652	I just think we are using the term "Creativity" pretty loosely. Does this mean taking sharp, well exposed images? Does it mean waking up early and capturing a sunrise at a spot you scouted earlier? Certainly most of us are not creating great art. We are capturing little bits of the world around us. I would argue that full frame and APS-C are more similar than they are different. Yes, you have a bit more dynamic range and high iso ability with a K-1 than a K3 and depth of field is a little more shallow, but the reality is that the K-1 is a "slower" camera than the K3. It only does a bit over 4 frames a second. It does a lot more thinking before it empties its buffer. If anything all of this should make one slow down and think about the process. People will continue to take the same sort of images with a K-1 as they took when they shot with APS-C. They may gradually get better if they attempt to improve their skill, but the style and eye aren't likely to change just because they have a sensor that is a little bigger.

12-24-2019, 04:00 AM - 1 Like	#55
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,231	Originally posted by MJKoski It is the 3:2 aspect ratio which kills creativity. This why I prefer Huawei P20 Pro to K-1 in casual snapping. Try to be creative with 3:2

12-24-2019, 04:10 AM	#56
HoutHans Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Appingedam Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,117	Originally posted by Rondec I just think we are using the term "Creativity" pretty loosely. Does this mean taking sharp, well exposed images? Does it mean waking up early and capturing a sunrise at a spot you scouted earlier? Certainly most of us are not creating great art. We are capturing little bits of the world around us. I would argue that full frame and APS-C are more similar than they are different. Yes, you have a bit more dynamic range and high iso ability with a K-1 than a K3 and depth of field is a little more shallow, but the reality is that the K-1 is a "slower" camera than the K3. It only does a bit over 4 frames a second. It does a lot more thinking before it empties its buffer. If anything all of this should make one slow down and think about the process. People will continue to take the same sort of images with a K-1 as they took when they shot with APS-C. They may gradually get better if they attempt to improve their skill, but the style and eye aren't likely to change just because they have a sensor that is a little bigger. Well, don't get us, or me at least, started on what creativity is... I just read a piece this morning in the Guardian about the effects of instagram and the likes not just on the actual sites that get destroyed, but also on the way people experience a place. They all seek to get that exact same shot. This is definitely noty what creativity is. But for a positive definition, anything beyond 'having some form of idea of how you'd like to portray something' is sketchy for me.

12-24-2019, 04:16 AM	#57
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,231	How is creativity defined here BTW?

12-24-2019, 04:19 AM	#58
wanderer2 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 301	Originally posted by barondla Fear it is often true. Too early to tell if it will be true for me and the K-1. Hope not. Does anyone feel full frame has diminished their creativity? Almost didn't buy the K-1 and join ff because it might cause a drop in creativity. But the Pentax crop offering was missing many features I wanted. Some, like gps, could be added, but then a new KP ended up costing as much as a slightly used K-1. Thanks, barondla No, my creativity improved. Where did that notion ever come from??

12-24-2019, 04:21 AM	#59
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,652	Originally posted by HoutHans Well, don't get us, or me at least, started on what creativity is... I just read a piece this morning in the Guardian about the effects of instagram and the likes not just on the actual sites that get destroyed, but also on the way people experience a place. They all seek to get that exact same shot. This is definitely noty what creativity is. But for a positive definition, anything beyond 'having some form of idea of how you'd like to portray something' is sketchy for me. I guess the question is why we take photos. I have two basic reasons. One is that I am documenting my kids lives as they grow up. Every year I make a photo album with high spots of the year and journal about different things and funny things they said in the year. Even now, they enjoy looking through those albums and remembering past trips or fun times. At this point my images of them are pretty good -- they aren't out of focus and they are well exposed. The second thing I shoot are landscapes. For me, that is more about the process. Waking up early, going out and taking photos of the little corner of Virginia I find myself in now. It can be cows in a field, the Staunton River, a country road before dawn -- it is just about being out there in the stillness. There is nothing like the majesty that is found in other places, but there is still a beauty to be seen and felt and I will capture a bit of it with my camera, if I can. Most all of what we shoot has been shot before. Creativity to me is blazing your own trail and finding something different and hopefully better than what everyone else is capturing, but even without that, the journey is what is really important. Most of us have to figure out how to capture the typical shot and do it well before we move on to figuring out how to work outside the box.

12-24-2019, 04:27 AM	#60
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	The size and weight of larger format cameras would create new challenges and foster creativity I should think.