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08-07-2020, 07:44 PM - 1 Like   #1
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Pentax K1 or Canon R5

Hi guys

Recently I sold up all of my Pentax 645z system and have been using my existing Canon 5Dmk4 system with 16-35/4, 24-70/4 and 70-200/4.

I have been looking at the new R5 mirrorless and ultimately this would involve a whole re-investment into new lenses (which are absurdly expensive), so it got me thinking about the Pentax system again and what the possibilities could be.

I must admit, I miss the solid feel and very mechanical workings of my 645 system and having used the new Canon R5 this week, it has very little soul as a camera as its basically all computer.

I have used an original K1 briefly in 2016 for a trip when it came out and only had the 15-30 lens, which while the results were stellar, the AF I felt was unreliable at best.

So the question is...........do I move back to Pentax or move to mirrorless. Obviously I won't get the amazing on-sensor AF that the R5 has, or eye detect etc, but most of my shooting is slow considered landscape and travel photos.

I want to feel connected to the camera and to something mechanical and solid, something that I feel I might miss with the mirrorless. There has to be an enjoyment factor there for me with the gear too.

Can you convince me of all of the positives of the K-1 system that I might be missing?

PS, I would probably get the new flagship crop body to compliment the system as well.

Cheers, Scott

08-07-2020, 08:28 PM - 3 Likes   #2
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I don't have experience with the Canon system you refer to, but I did have brief foray into the Sony mirrorless market a few years back. "Very little soul and basically all computer" is a good description. While technically excellent, and excellent image IQ, the shooting experience didn't wow me at all, and left me wanting. Enough to prevent me to investing in a new system. I have shifted from the APS-c format to the Full Frame format with Pentax, and have been very happy with the K-1. And it is definitely a system with soul, as is the APS-c system. For what I do, how I shoot, Pentax is been a good fit. For me it satisfies my soul when I shoot with it, and it has plenty of tech too.


I don't have an argument to sway you back to Pentax, and I'm not going to try and make one. At the end of the day, it's about your shooting experience. And this is a question you will have to answer for yourself. From what I can glean just from you raising the question, it doesn't sound like the Canon system is living up to your photography expectations, on the enjoyment side.

Technology is awesome but there is something to be said about soul.
08-07-2020, 08:52 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by 2351HD Quote
PS, I would probably get the new flagship crop body to compliment the system as well.
If you are definitely going to get the new APS-c camera then why not just get it and wait to see if it fails to satisfy your needs before purchasing anything else?
08-07-2020, 09:05 PM   #4
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Would you be more happy going back to the 645 system.
If rumors are correct your current Canon lenses / mount are being dropped in favour of the mirrorless mount going forward.
That seems to be their 40 yr ish trademark.

Happy shooting on whatever you decide.

Dave

08-07-2020, 09:14 PM   #5
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For the Canon R5, depending on how you feel about adapters Canon does have an EF-to-R adapter that will let you use EF-mount lenses onto their R-mount camera bodies (standard version is ~$99), not sure how good the af is going to be using the adapter but you would save at least some money not rebuying lenses you have just in R-mount.

If you do end up selling your Canon gear, you can get the closest equivalent zoom lenses & a K-1 or K-1II used here on the forums for a pretty good price, and alot of the members here tend to keep their gear really clean/in great shape.
08-07-2020, 09:31 PM - 15 Likes   #6
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For what it’s worth:

The K-1 was my first experience with Pentax (other than briefly using a Pentax 6x7), I bought one shortly after release on a whim after feeling dissatisfied with the Canon gear that I could afford at the time. I had been cycling through combinations of 5D/6D series bodies with primes from Canon, Sigma, Tamron, and Zeiss; none of them were bad but none them quite landed for me. So I rolled the dice, got a K-1 and the 31/43/77 set and almost instantly felt that I had found the system for me—it’s worth mentioning here that I’m a fairly slow type of photographer, do primarily landscape/architecture/still-life type work. I always enjoyed working with medium/large format film equipment* and the K-1 gave me a similar (as much as it can be) feeling in practice.

However, I switched back to Canon for a brief time afterward because I felt limited by modern lens selection—the new D FA* primes hadn’t made their way off the roadmaps. From there, I mostly used a 5DS R with various primes I would rent when necessary (Canon TS-E are among my favorite lenses out there). I got into a situation where I decided to sell all my gear and just rent various kits as I saw fit when I had a shoot planned. I’ve used everything from the aforementioned kits to kits from Olympus, Sony, Fujifilm, Phase One.

This week, I sold a Canon RP I had been using for about six months with various RF L glass (aiming to upgrade to an R5), to buy another K-1 and the finally released D FA* 50 and 85mm—and I couldn’t be more excited. Having used a broad range of cameras systems, I’m confident that Pentax is for me; I truly enjoy my experience with their equipment and the quality/value they offer suits me very well in most cases. Of course there are some issues, nothing is perfect, but I’ll rent other gear when the situation calls for it. I’m going to pick up a Sigma 35 1.4 Art to round out the basic 35/50/85 prime set in the short term but am anxiously awaiting a pre-order when and if Pentax releases a D FA* equivalent (maybe even a K-1 III at the same time).

*For the record, I’m 28 years old, I got into photography on pocket P&S digital cameras and my first real camera was a Nikon D40 when I was a teenager. Not all people who like Pentax are nostalgic old men (no offense to those who are), as much as the internet sometimes tries to make that seem so.

Last edited by naward001; 08-07-2020 at 09:45 PM.
08-07-2020, 09:32 PM   #7
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I used to have a K1 before switching to Canon three years ago but picked up a 645Z a couple weeks ago. I don't shoot the 5D4 I use the 5DSR and 1DX2.

I'm not sure the K1 will offer to much difference compared to the 5D4. The tilting screen on the K1 is nice but the auto focus and lenses for the Canon are nice, neither will have the feel of the 645Z.

If the 5D4 isn't good enough for you maybe try the 5DSR, you can pick them up cheap new and used right now and you don't have to get new lenses.

Whatever you do both the K1 and 5D4 are great landscape and travel bodies so you can't make a bad choice really.

08-07-2020, 09:53 PM - 1 Like   #8
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Doesn't the K-1 mkII supposedly have improved AF over the original?

Edit: odd to read about the AF being "unreliable" as folks generally seem happy with it, except for C-AF.
08-07-2020, 11:25 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by 2351HD Quote
Can you convince me of all of the positives of the K-1 system that I might be missing?

Cheers, Scott
From a pure technical comparison the Canon R5 makes the most sense if your priorities include shooting video and action sports or wildlife.
The Pentax K1 is better if you have little to no interest in shooting video and want the best for landscapes.

Check out the link below at all the positives they list of the K-1 over the R5:

Canon R5 vs Pentax K-1 Detailed Comparison
08-07-2020, 11:32 PM   #10
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You mention unreliable AF as a downside to the K-1, but that seems only a minor issue for the kind of shooting you do; at least it is for the landscape shooting that I do. I'm not sure I understand the 'soul' part. There is very little mechanical in modern cameras and chemical emulsion doesn't seem to have too much soul to me anyway. In the end, the camera is a tool that shouldn't restrict your shooting. Just choose the one that least restricts your imaging and don't worry about the features that may perhaps only marginally improve it.

Good luck with this!
08-08-2020, 12:09 AM - 2 Likes   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by 2351HD Quote
Hi guys

Recently I sold up all of my Pentax 645z system and have been using my existing Canon 5Dmk4 system with 16-35/4, 24-70/4 and 70-200/4.

I have been looking at the new R5 mirrorless and ultimately this would involve a whole re-investment into new lenses (which are absurdly expensive), so it got me thinking about the Pentax system again and what the possibilities could be.

I must admit, I miss the solid feel and very mechanical workings of my 645 system and having used the new Canon R5 this week, it has very little soul as a camera as its basically all computer.

I have used an original K1 briefly in 2016 for a trip when it came out and only had the 15-30 lens, which while the results were stellar, the AF I felt was unreliable at best.

So the question is...........do I move back to Pentax or move to mirrorless. Obviously I won't get the amazing on-sensor AF that the R5 has, or eye detect etc, but most of my shooting is slow considered landscape and travel photos.

I want to feel connected to the camera and to something mechanical and solid, something that I feel I might miss with the mirrorless. There has to be an enjoyment factor there for me with the gear too.

Can you convince me of all of the positives of the K-1 system that I might be missing?

PS, I would probably get the new flagship crop body to compliment the system as well.

Cheers, Scott
If I was to take the liberty and refine your excellent description of the R5 from "very little soul as a camera as its basically all computer" to cover all the mirrorless cameras I've handled, but not, admittedly, used, then it would say that mirrorless cameras are just "Optical computers with no soul". I think you know what you should buy ...

Refined again by someone skilled at marketing, this description of mirrorless perhaps could be used in Ricoh marketing, as it does capture the different experience in photo taking.
08-08-2020, 12:17 AM - 1 Like   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by BarryE Quote
Refined again by someone skilled at marketing, this description of mirrorless perhaps could be used in Ricoh marketing, as it does capture the different experience in photo taking.
In a way, they've already done it:

08-08-2020, 12:21 AM - 1 Like   #13
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Id be tempted to wait a bit.

Recently I sold up all of my Pentax 645z system and have been using my existing Canon 5Dmk4 system with 16-35/4, 24-70/4 and 70-200/4.

Why did you sell it?

I have been looking at the new R5 mirrorless and ultimately this would involve a whole re-investment into new lenses (which are absurdly expensive), so it got me thinking about the Pentax system again and what the possibilities could be.

Doesn't canon offer an adapter that would make it so that you can use your existing lenses that you already use on the 5DMK4, and if you like it enough you could start gutting out the regular FF lenses for the newer lenses. Canon always did have good lenses and selection when I had an aps-c back in the day.

I must admit, I miss the solid feel and very mechanical workings of my 645 system and having used the new Canon R5 this week, it has very little soul as a camera as its basically all computer.

645 is one robust camera, and it makes beautiful photos. The problem that exist now is that Modern FF sensors are very good. The biggest problem the 645 setup had was that when the K1 came out it offered a very comparable image quality at a better price.

I have used an original K1 briefly in 2016 for a trip when it came out and only had the 15-30 lens, which while the results were stellar, the AF I felt was unreliable at best.

That is the only thing i don't love about my original K1. I love the image quality, but it falls short on AF. The KII is supposed to be better, another thing is the video options are lacking.

So the question is...........do I move back to Pentax or move to mirrorless. Obviously I won't get the amazing on-sensor AF that the R5 has, or eye detect etc, but most of my shooting is slow considered landscape and travel photos.


It all comes down to your needs, budget, and preference.
Here's some alternative solutions that I can think of.
Have you considered the fuji 50R, it sometimes goes on sale, and the 50mm lens drops in price to like 50% when that's put on sale too.
If you don't need the street walk-ability that the K1 offers and you already have some canon lenses, have you looked at a 2nd hand Canon 5dsr? More resolution and i've seen them aggressively priced for the kind of camera you get.

I want to feel connected to the camera and to something mechanical and solid, something that I feel I might miss with the mirrorless. There has to be an enjoyment factor there for me with the gear too.

You're not likely to miss out on anything, you said it yourself, you shoot mostly landscape, the thing will probably be in a tripod. If you like the mechanical feel, and feel like it's a tangible thing to you go with what you think is best for you, and not necessarily what works best for someone else. The viewfinders on some of the mirrorless are pretty capable including the Sony A9, I think the benefit on the Canon setup would be that now it has the one feature that made the Pentax unique for a while which was IBIS, this is great for walking around, and that it has a good diameter for the mount which could potentially lead to less complications designing lenses. Sigma has abandoned the K mount.
Another option would be to keep using what you have for a bit and maybe Pentax will make a K1 successor.

Can you convince me of all of the positives of the K-1 system that I might be missing?
It's robust, good weather sealing, I love the articulation in the screen. There's always the chance that you might find some distant relative's old lenses from prehistoric time, and you could adapt it to work on the K1.
If the do a K1 sucessor what I'd want is more resolution, better a/f, and I wouldn't mind if they try to copy the camera grip from some of the Canons, Canon knows how to make a comfortable grip.

PS, I would probably get the new flagship crop body to compliment the system as well.
Maybe. I see it making sense when it's strapped to a high burst rate camera. The problem with some of the nicer crop sensor cameras is that they are so close to the price of FF it doesn't make it worth while at least for me, unless you need that 1.4x-1.6x reach depending on manufacturer, but you aren't birding.

Last edited by francis01832; 08-08-2020 at 12:33 AM.
08-08-2020, 01:22 AM   #14
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Thanks for all the responses. To clear up a few questions below:

- I sold the 645z system for two reasons, lack of lenses to suit my needs (no ultra-wide for astro, no manageable 70-200 type lens either), lack of interest from Pentax to grow the lineup and also I damaged my hand last year and needed to downsize my kit a little in weight. I found when I travelled I was needing to take both the 645 kit with 3 lenses and the 5D4 kit just to cover my bases for the shooting that I like to do. I want one system that can handle ultra-wide to tele and everything in between.

- Canon does have an adapter, but there is none available anywhere. I have a R5 in my hands for testing and need to make a decision to keep it but I can not even use it with my lenses, only a loaner 14mm samyang that I have been given, which is a terrible lens

- I know I can use my EF lenses adapted, but ultimately the move to RF glass is on the cards. I can build an entire pentax system with a K1, KP and all lenses for less than the price of the R5 and 70-200 lens

- I will not be moving to Fuji MF, do not like it one bit.

- Having used the K1 when it did not have the electronic first curtain shutter, which is important for perfectly sharp images, I do not know what the K1 with latest firmware or the K1mkII is like now, could be a different beast. I sure did love the controls and feel of the camera when I used it back in 2016. Is the AF any better on the mark II camera? I found it lacking with the 15-30 just in single centre point focus, it would not lock on to the same spot every time and I had a bunch of missed photos.

Last edited by 2351HD; 08-08-2020 at 01:37 AM.
08-08-2020, 02:04 AM   #15
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Here's some of the stuff I have done with the Pentax K1.
Action.
Race Haverhill 7/8/2018 - Album on Imgur
It was struggling to keep up. I could have probably done better if I was more experienced. It was my first time trying that type of photography, I dragged the shutter for the effect, and it worked for what I was trying to do, but it would have been a lot better if the a/f system took one less worry away from me.

Animal.
Dog - Album on Imgur
Landscape
Imgur: The magic of the Internet
Imgur: The magic of the Internet
Other stuff.
Imgur: The magic of the Internet
Imgur: The magic of the Internet
Person
Imgur: The magic of the Internet

Just right click on the picture you wanna blow up and click on open link on new tab, then it lets you click on it to make it big.

I am very satisfied with the output. Works fine for my needs.

Last edited by francis01832; 08-08-2020 at 02:27 AM.
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