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10-02-2020, 07:53 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Smoke665 Quote
A little different but still a display issue. With the K1MII I find it annoying that in manual mode, Live View you get a stopped down view, which is really annoying, not to mention mostly impossible when trying to focus manually. The only workaround I've found is rotate the dial to Bulb, focus then rotate back to manual. Any thoughts on where I've missed this in the manual?
I am not sure, but I think it is an undocumented feature dating back I-don't-know-how-many models.

The darkness (or lightness) is a simulation of under/over exposure and not a true stop-down. Press the green button to center the EV scale and things should normalize. The same thing happens when using exposure compensation with the auto exposure modes. It is something that I don't care for and wish it could be turned off, but have not found a way.

Addendum: Are you set to use electronic shutter in Live View?

More Addendum: The feature turns off in magnified live view.


Steve


Last edited by stevebrot; 10-03-2020 at 06:53 PM.
10-02-2020, 10:52 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I am not sure, but I think it is an undocumented feature dating back I-don't-know-how-many models.

The darkness (or lightness) is a simulation of under/over exposure and not a true stop-down. Press the green button to center the EV scale and things should normalize. The same thing happens when using exposure compensation with the auto exposure modes. It is something that I don't care for and wish it could be turned off, but have not found a way.


Steve
With my A series lenses in "A" and my DA XS 40 it is a true stop down
10-02-2020, 11:13 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by GUB Quote
With my A series lenses in "A" and my DA XS 40 it is a true stop down
In M mode set aperture to f/22 using the e-dial and notice the live view screen darken. Now look into the front of the lens and activate DOF preview and note the aperture closing. Release the DOF preview and see it open again.

That said, there is a protective stop-down that occurs under bright condition, but that is not the problem described by Smoke665. The protective stop-down happens even in B mode while the under exposure simulation does not.


Steve
10-02-2020, 11:34 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
In M mode set aperture to f/22 using the e-dial and notice the live view screen darken. Now look into the front of the lens and activate DOF preview and note the aperture closing. Release the DOF preview and see it open again.

That said, there is a protective stop-down that occurs under bright condition, but that is not the problem described by Smoke665. The protective stop-down happens even in B mode while the under exposure simulation does not.


Steve
Naa we must have a different setting elsewhere. I am normally in "digital preview" so changed to "optical preview" but nothing happens coz it is already stopped down.
I am K-1 mk1
M mode
LV
I wonder if it is in the shutter settings because when I half press the shutter in AF mode it opens to focus. (in MF not so).

EDIT there is no shutter settings. I thought there was on somewhere to eliminate the half click point on the shutter.

EDIT AGAIN Interesting xs 40 @ f22 M mode LV when dof preview is activated the screen goes brighter despite the lens staying stopped down to f22.


Last edited by GUB; 10-03-2020 at 12:08 AM.
10-03-2020, 03:12 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by GUB Quote
Naa we must have a different setting elsewhere.
Perhaps! Try this:
  • Indoors, moderate light
  • M mode
  • ISO 100
  • Maximum aperture
  • Shutter speed at 1/8000
  • Electronic shutter OFF (don't know if this is pertinent)
Is LV display darkish? If so, press the green button; it should become bright unless green button in M mode is turned off or set to Av-shift.


Steve
10-03-2020, 03:34 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Perhaps! Try this:
  • Indoors, moderate light
  • M mode
  • ISO 100
  • Maximum aperture
  • Shutter speed at 1/8000
  • Electronic shutter OFF (don't know if this is pertinent)
Is LV display darkish? If so, press the green button; it should become bright unless green button in M mode is turned off or set to Av-shift.


Steve
Yes of course it becomes lightish because the green button has overridden M mode and reset to f2.8
10-03-2020, 03:37 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by GUB Quote
Yes of course it becomes lightish because the green button has overridden M mode and reset to f2.8
You started at maximum aperture (f/2.8?).

The shutter speed was responsible for the darkish display due to the exposure emulation feature. Pressing the green button dropped the shutter speed while keep the shutter wide open.


Steve
10-03-2020, 03:54 PM   #38
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I misunderstood that and set at f32 (135 2.8)
OK set at 1/8000 f2.8 - push green button - in lowish light stays at f2.8 and may or may not brighten (still very dim) In mid light stops down to f4.5 and the lens stays stopped down at that aperture. (apart from the bright light protection function)
So that doesn't change any thing for me. My workaround is still as per post 27 and for A series with aperture ring.

10-03-2020, 05:24 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by GUB Quote
So that doesn't change any thing for me. My workaround is still as per post 27 and for A series with aperture ring.
Whatever...at f/2.8 (maximum aperture) the display should reflect the room brightness, but set to 1/8000s, it does not. You can watch the display dim as you rack the shutter speed up and see it lighten as you bring the shutter speed back down despite the aperture setting not changing. Assuming, of course, that the aperture ring is on the A-setting. The exposure emulation feature (called "Exposure Preview" in Nikonland) is pretty well-known and famously unresponsive to attempts to hack its behavior. There is no exposure emulation in B mode because the shutter speed is unknown.


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 10-03-2020 at 05:31 PM.
10-03-2020, 05:34 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Whatever...at f/2.8 (maximum aperture) the display should reflect the room brightness, but set to 1/8000s, it does not. You can watch the display dim as you rack the shutter speed up and see it lighten as you bring the shutter speed back down despite the aperture setting not changing. Assuming, of course, that the aperture ring is on the A-setting. The exposure emulation feature (called "Exposure Preview" in Nikonland) is pretty well-known and famously unresponsive to attempts to hack its behavior. There is no exposure emulation in B mode because the shutter speed is unknown.


Steve
But just to clarify -- are you agreeing that in M, LV, aperture ring on "A" or auto aperture lenses with no ring -- that when the lens is stopped down (via edial) the lens itself immediately stops down. In other words a true stop down. And when the lens ring is set manually (ie not :A") the lens remains wide open until the shot is taken?.
10-03-2020, 05:49 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by GUB Quote
are you agreeing that in M, LV, aperture ring on "A" or auto aperture lenses with no ring -- that when the lens is stopped down (via edial) the lens itself immediately stops down.
No...it stays open for all K-mount lenses with conductive bases. This should be readily obvious with most lenses when setting the aperture from its widest to narrowest settings using the e-dial while observing through the front of the lens. This should be true for all exposure modes in both live view and when using the optical viewfinder. The camera will always respect the lens' automatic aperture (stays open until exposure) unless it is doing the live view protection feature and even then will open up when doing AF (sadly, it does not leave it open with non-AF lenses ) or when in magnified live view.


Steve
10-03-2020, 06:15 PM   #42
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Well this is exactly how it works for me!! It must be a setting somewhere! And it seems like the same for Smoke665. It is not an issue because I just use the aperture ring like I always used to.
10-04-2020, 07:23 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Sure, but when somebody wants to know about a feature *and* it's in the manual ...

I'm in IT so see this all the time ... 'RTFM' is how my industry works. I'd be fifty percent less employed if everyone bothered to read instructions.
I wondered when RTFM would crop up ;-) How many times I wanted to say that to a customer, when I spent spells in customer facing roles. Somehow I managed to restrain myself. Then I was back to the coal face developing the code and docs they were complaining about. Rarely did I not see their point of view, eventually.

Techies are generally poor at writing user guides and the Pentax manuals have got more and more tersely written. Too much info is hidden in the small print notes and appear as though they were after thoughts. The K-5 manual explained basic stuff much better than the K-3, then K-1. One day I should sit down and read through the K-1 guide; I bet I'll learn a few things, but I suspect much will be irrelevant to my way of working. Could be wrong ...
10-04-2020, 02:46 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by BarryE Quote
One day I should sit down and read through the K-1 guide; I bet I'll learn a few things, but I suspect much will be irrelevant to my way of working. Could be wrong ...
I'd say there's no field of knowledge in printed form, whether cameras or molecular biology, where that isn't true, Barry.

In particular, camera manuals don't teach photography - and nor do I think, should they try - who'd try to learn how to drive from their car owner's handbook? No, they're references for a product, just the nuts and bolts.

I've written a lot of 'hold the customer's hand' documentation in IT too, BTW, all that step-by-step stuff with screenshots and even videos for my users covering different scenarios, along with caveats and suggestions for getting out of trouble.

Very different to what's needed in a product manual, which should be concise, no padding, because you're trying to look up something specific, and a 500 page multi-topic book is not where that should be hidden, like 'Where's Wally'.

For people who are lost with their new camera, I'd suggest the late and great Yvon Bourque's PDF guides - I have three of them myself, which IIRC can still be bought from this site.

Last edited by clackers; 10-04-2020 at 03:04 PM.
10-04-2020, 07:50 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Very different to what's needed in a product manual, which should be concise, no padding, because you're trying to look up something specific
Everything that has a name and how to configure and/or exercise it.


Steve
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