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4 Days Ago   #1
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K1ii vs K3 wb by color checker measure

Same light same umbrella

K3 Da70 5900k
K1ii Da70 6200k

Do your K1ii act the same or just me?

4 Days Ago   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by mactrash Quote
Do your K1ii act the same or just me?
How are you deriving the color temperatures?


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4 Days Ago   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by mactrash Quote
Same light same umbrella

K3 Da70 5900k
K1ii Da70 6200k

Do your K1ii act the same or just me?
Same settings of WB in menu for flash? By defaults WB for flash is set to Auto. That can be confusing. Menu C3/17
4 Days Ago   #4
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@stevebrot @Reed I set the WB with K2 5600k in both camera...

Photography colorcheck passport with same light same setup

then both pef files load in lightroom and pick the wb target box in the color check photo and they result not same :O

---------- Post added 02-24-2021 at 01:57 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Reed Quote
Same settings of WB in menu for flash? By defaults WB for flash is set to Auto. That can be confusing. Menu C3/17
My C3/17 set unchange

4 Days Ago   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by mactrash Quote
@stevebrot @Reed I set the WB with K2 5600k in both camera...

Photography colorcheck passport with same light same setup

then both pef files load in lightroom and pick the wb target box in the color check photo and they result not same :O
If you set a different WB on each camera, you should expect different results when the WB patch on your colorchecker is "picked" in Lightroom.

I am so dozy...Yes, with both set manually to 5600K, one would expect that Lightroom would import them both as 5600K, though with tint applied according to Adobe's dark magic. It does not surprise me that the WB patch on the color checker was evaluated differently between the two after import. If 100% correspondence is needed between the two cameras, you might want to shoot as DNG and use Adobe's DNG Profile Editor to create a custom profile for the lighting mix for that session for each camera.*


Steve

* A cool feature of the DNG Profile Editor when paired with X-rite's Macbeth card.

Last edited by stevebrot; 4 Days Ago at 01:54 PM. Reason: completeness and clarity
4 Days Ago   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
If you set a different WB on each camera, you should expect different results when the WB patch on your colorchecker is "picked" in Lightroom.
Why that? The camera color balance can be applied based on the (transformed) raw data in the PEF, and I thought the picker to a grey target would be an alternative to determine it. A key difference is the color matrix applied to the raw data to determine RGB channels, which is camera specific in lightroom (or embedded, not sure if PEFs have that).
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QuoteOriginally posted by JensE Quote
Why that?
My mistake. May I plead lack of coffee?

As for explaining the difference, I suspect the blame lies with the camera profile applied on import. The two cameras have different sensors (duh!) and image processors and their own versions of Adobe Standard as a result. Embedded profiles being a DNG feature, I am not sure if PEFs include them or not. I strongly suspect not.


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 4 Days Ago at 01:55 PM. Reason: grammar
4 Days Ago   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I may be interpreting incorrectly, but because the OP manually set the WB as two different degrees K.
... which I thought was only relevant to the raw -> JPEG conversion, so PEF raw data should be unmodified and 'pick' equally.

4 Days Ago   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by JensE Quote
... which I thought was only relevant to the raw -> JPEG conversion, so PEF raw data should be unmodified and 'pick' equally.
I misread the OP's explanation. See edits above.

As for the PEF data picking equally...ummmm...no. When you use the picker for WB adjustment, you are picking fully rendered pixel data. White balance is always applied (read from the makersnotes section of the EXIF), but Lightroom makes other adjustments to color balance and tone based on the import (camera) profile. To test without a camera profile in the mix, using a utility like dcraw or RawDigger would allow a less sullied comparison.


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4 Days Ago   #10
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Just re-test and this time not involve the Color checker

K3 & K1ii both set to K2 5600k and flash WB is unchange style = natural

Each camera shoot a PEF with same lighting

Open them with RawTherapee

K3 show 5723k
K1ii show 6277k
4 Days Ago   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by mactrash Quote
Just re-test and this time not involve the Color checker

K3 & K1ii both set to K2 5600k and flash WB is unchange style = natural

Each camera shoot a PEF with same lighting

Open them with RawTherapee

K3 show 5723k
K1ii show 6277k
Just to confirm, you are doing flash photos, right? If so, what is your kit? Also, what exposure mode are you using on the cameras and what settings are you using including any exposure compensation or flash exposure compensation. What lens on each camera and do either have a filter, even a "skylight" or "uv" type?

I am not a RawTherapee user and don't have first hand experience with how it handles WB, so I am worthless there.


Steve
4 Days Ago   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Just to confirm, you are doing flash photos, right? If so, what is your kit? Also, what exposure mode are you using on the cameras and what settings are you using including any exposure compensation or flash exposure compensation. What lens on each camera and do either have a filter, even a "skylight" or "uv" type?

I am not a RawTherapee user and don't have first hand experience with how it handles WB, so I am worthless there.


Steve
Thanks for your follow up

Both cameras use same lens Pentax DA70 without filter

Flash system is Godox Pro line with color stable mode (+-100K) in M mode and metered with a calibrated sekonic 758 meter

The strange thing is the K1ii have almost 300k different even 2 camera I set manually to 5600K

Last edited by mactrash; 4 Days Ago at 03:55 PM.
4 Days Ago   #13
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Seems all use dng resolve the issue... Will write back if I am wrong...
4 Days Ago   #14
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I feel more at home in Rawtherapee than in Lightroom :-)


In Rawtherapee, you either use the camera WB or the color picker for 'measured' WB. I would expect the 'Camera' WB to match what you selected manually, but maybe that's just the 'Camera Measured' one. Are the WB adjustment features in the Camera set to none (Info button on the WB screen)?


The difference between the cameras in measured WB via picker in RT may be related the input color matrix. In Rawtherapee, you can choose which one to use, see WhiteBalance/Input Profile/. My RT version doesn't have one for the K-1 II, so it would use the coefficients embedded in the raw file, whereas there is one for the K-3.
4 Days Ago   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by mactrash Quote
The strange thing is the K1ii have almost 300k different even 2 camera I set manually to 5600K
Yes, that is particularly puzzling.

QuoteOriginally posted by mactrash Quote
Seems all use dng resolve the issue... Will write back if I am wrong...
It should make no difference.

QuoteOriginally posted by JensE Quote
Are the WB adjustment features in the Camera set to none (Info button on the WB screen)?
That was my next question! I don't know why Pentax included that option for degrees K manual entry...grrrr. The additional bias numbers are stored separately in the EXIF (WBShiftAB and WBShiftGM) from the white balance bias factors (WhitePoint) and it is possible all three are used by the LR and RT with the K value being back-calculated from the factors.


Steve
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