[Guitar Dude]

Hi all. I am very interested in becoming a better photographer and, to that end, I've been working with my K-70 (it's about a year old), learning how to use it. I recently saw a presentation at our photography club where the presenter was explaining his approach and results for taking pictures at the golden/blue hour. He showed both his raw images, and his pictures after auto editing with Adobe Lightroom. The two pictures (raw and edited) of the same scene looked very different. I've noticed, with my K-70, that different scene selections give me different results; but, within a scene, the raw and JPEG images look basically the same. Does the Pentax scene function apply processing to the raw/JPEG files, or are the differences due to the parameters (shutter speed, EV, etc) applied?

[othar]

I only use RAW for my photography, therefore I am no expert for different scene modes of the camera, but the reason RAW and jpg images look the same in-camera is, that the preview of the RAW file uses the same settings as your jpg files for the preview (your preview image is basically a processed jpg image).
The differences will get visible only when you load and process your RAW files in a dedicated software on your PC (or when you use RAW processing in camera: you will have much more leeway for processing when you use RAW files)

[pschlute]

Hi all. I am very interested in becoming a better photographer and, to that end, I've been working with my K-70 (it's about a year old), learning how to use it. I recently saw a presentation at our photography club where the presenter was explaining his approach and results for taking pictures at the golden/blue hour. He showed both his raw images, and his pictures after auto editing with Adobe Lightroom. The two pictures (raw and edited) of the same scene looked very different. I've noticed, with my K-70, that different scene selections give me different results; but, within a scene, the raw and JPEG images look basically the same. Does the Pentax scene function apply processing to the raw/JPEG files, or are the differences due to the parameters (shutter speed, EV, etc) applied?

In addition to the advice above I will add this for clarification.. A raw file is not an image file. It is a data file, and contained within it is a jpeg image that has been produced by the camera based on the cameras jpeg settings. As advised above, this is what you see in the camera after taking a picture. It is also what you see when you view the raw file on most picture viewing software. This is often refered to as the "jpeg preview"

If you are going to shoot raw files, you need to use a raw converter to produce an image file from the raw data. Adobe Lightroom; Adobe Photoshop with the Adobe Camera Raw plugin; Silkypix; Raw therapy and a host of other programs are capable raw converters. In these programs when you open the file, you are not looking at the jpeg preview image, but you are looking at the raw data, converted into an image. Years ago when digital photography was in its infancy, you would be presented with a very dull image....subdued colours, low contrast, unsharp. Only when you had moved the sliders up would you end up with a good image. These days most raw converters apply a pre-set to the raw file so it looks pretty good initially. After you have done further editing to the raw file and are happy with your image on screen, you need to save that image as a picture image file like a JPEG or TIFF. You also need to assign a colour space to the image, most commonly sRGB, but wider gamut spaces can also be used. Many software do this for you when you choose the "export" option.

I hope this helps.

[kypfer]

Without disagreeing with any of the above valid comments, I feel there's a little too much emphasis on (expensive) Lightroom and similar, for someone who's just dipping their toes into RAW processing.
Initially, at least, the Digital Camera Utility that was supplied on the CD with the K-70, and subsequently updated, is a perfectly capable, if slightly "different" program for anyone who wants to expand their capabilities beyond the in-camera facilities.

I've noticed, with my K-70, that different scene selections give me different results; but, within a scene, the raw and JPEG images look basically the same. Does the Pentax scene function apply processing to the raw/JPEG files, or are the differences due to the parameters (shutter speed, EV, etc) applied?

The in-camera Scene settings apply different pre-set choices of adjustment, which, for many people and purposes are very acceptable. One of the "advantages" of processing from a RAW original (or even from a JPG original, for practice purposes) is the ability to slightly tweak the settings further, to suit one's own tastes or preferences. For example : having taken a JPG with the "Sunset" setting in the camera, if you decide you don't like it, DCU "knows" what adjustments comprise the Sunset scene and can effectively negate them to "Natural" before allowing you to start over. Not quite as sophisticated as working directly from the RAW, but often perfectly acceptable
A slightly different point of view might be to use the Scene settings as a "Digital Preview" facility, so you can get an idea of what a final image might look like once processed in your computer.
All good fun
Just remember, the object of the picture-taking exercise is to create images that YOU like … slavishly following someone else's workflow may well limit your imagination.

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Last edited by kypfer; 02-01-2023 at 11:41 AM. Reason: sp

[mlag]

Does the Pentax scene function apply processing to the raw/JPEG files, or are the differences due to the parameters (shutter speed, EV, etc) applied?

The scene SCN setting changes first the balance between shutter, aperture and ISO, and secondary color balance.

Shutter time affects movement unsharpness, aperture affects depth of field, and ISO sensor-noise/image quality.
Examples
* Sports (running man icon) will favor short shutter times like 1/1000, to avoid unsharpness from fast moving subjects ( people, race cars , ....). Aperture is wider like f2.8 and iso might be like 400 Note : assumes good (day or artificial) light
* Landscape (mountain icon) will favor smaller aperture like f11 to increase depth of field, so both fore/background of landscape are sharp. Shutter might be longer like 1/30 and ISO would be relative low like 100-200
* night scene (moon) will increase shutter like 1/15 and iso like 1600 in a balanced way to compensate low light
Etc...

Secondary SCN affects the color balance ( emphasising skin tones for people, green for nature, blue for sky scenes, ...)

Alternative to SCN is auto (with program line!) or manual like Tav Av etc...

There is also custom image setting ( bright, saturated, bleech, etc...) affecting all images.
The camera allows also to tune these custom settings in detail.

If you don’t see huge difference between jpeg and raw, your viewer might automaticaly replicate the camera settings on the raw image: I have had one viewer (or was it slow computer) where I did see first raw and within a second you did see the corrections coming, note that raw file contains info on quite some settings applied by camera : but you can still modify in raw, it will just take camera setting as starting point, hence the similarities.

[pschlute]

Without disagreeing with any of the above valid comments, I feel there's a little too much emphasis on (expensive) Lightroom and similar, for someone who's just dipping their toes into RAW processing

I mention Photoshop and Silkypix because they are what I use for raw conversion (I have tried many). I also mention RT because it gets a lot of accolades on here, and it is free. You are right to point out the Pentax DCU which is probably the best starting point.

There is no need for anyone starting out in raw conversion to spend money. Only if they progress in future and want more features will they perhaps want to get the credit card out.

[mikesbike]

Hi all. I am very interested in becoming a better photographer and, to that end, I've been working with my K-70 (it's about a year old), learning how to use it. I recently saw a presentation at our photography club where the presenter was explaining his approach and results for taking pictures at the golden/blue hour. He showed both his raw images, and his pictures after auto editing with Adobe Lightroom. The two pictures (raw and edited) of the same scene looked very different. I've noticed, with my K-70, that different scene selections give me different results; but, within a scene, the raw and JPEG images look basically the same. Does the Pentax scene function apply processing to the raw/JPEG files, or are the differences due to the parameters (shutter speed, EV, etc) applied?

As others have said, your camera's preview is the JPEG image from the RAW, and simply uses whatever SCN setting you have selected, which can vary according to what the camera "thinks" it is "seeing". For example, if you are shooting a landscape type photo, and you therefore select the Landscape SCN, the camera will trend towards a smaller aperture to increase DOF (Depth of Field- how much of the foreground and background will be sharp) to maximize sharpness throughout the frame. There may be other factors as well- color palette, degree of color saturation, etc. and according to the lighting properties of the actual scene as you view it. On one hand, the SCN selections can be a handy device for a quick setting to get usually good results, and to be a good study to find out what the camera does adjust in order to address certain kinds of scenes. But on the other hand, it is not useful unless you yourself learn from it what to do when dealing with the various types of scenes.

When you do learn what to do, it will likely be even quicker to make proper decisions than it is to turn to one of the SCN modes. You will learn to have control over exposure, and if shooting JPEG images right out of the camera, which of the Custom Image categories might work best for your needs, rather than having the camera make this selection. Then you can select from the mode options giving you control over factors that are important, whether it be shutter speed to deal with movement, aperture to control DOF or to let in more light when facing a dimmer scene, etc. When you can do this, you will need less adjustment in post process.

A couple of tips- when shooting people shots from fairly close distances outdoors, even in daylight, use your flash to even out shadows and to put some catchlight in eyes.

It is good for practice to shoot in Manual mode, going by the metering indicator to set exposure, learning which lighting situations are likely to fool the meter, and how to compensate and/or when to switch to spot metering to take spot meter readings from mid-tone areas of the scene where the same lighting is falling upon as it is on your main subject, which might be more reflective or brighter, throwing off the meter indication. You can use the exclusive Pentax Hyper System, using the green button to quickly get a meter-centred spot meter reading. Then if you'd rather have a different aperture or shutter speed, first hit the AE-L button (being set to operate as AE-L) to lock exposure value, then just select your preference of either and the other will follow along to preserve that exposure value.

If you just continue using the SCN mode choices, you then essentially have only one advantage over P/S (point & shoot) cameras or phones, which is essentially the ability to use various lenses that can do more than they can do. But if you learn many techniques potentially under your control with such an advanced camera as the K-70, you can be way ahead. Such as controlling DOF to blur background more to make your subject stand out from it to the degree you want it to be. Or controlling shutter speed to freeze action or to slow it up. You can speed up the flow of water, for example to the degree you want it to appear. You can freeze motion just to the degree you want, such as freezing the ball's kicker except for the kicking foot and the ball itself, which will have blur to show the kinking action and its effect on the ball.

These are some of the things you can learn to do, not possible with P/S cameras and phones.

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Last edited by mikesbike; 02-12-2023 at 06:20 PM.