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06-08-2016, 09:43 PM   #1
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K-70 mechanical video stabilization

Has Ricoh said something about it? Hopefully, given the renewed interest the company has put on video (or at least it seems that way), it'll be available sooner or later.

I'm crossing fingers Pentax is in the way of 4K.

06-08-2016, 09:47 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by Leoi Quote
Has Ricoh said something about it? Hopefully, given the renewed interest the company has put on video (or at least it seems that way), it'll be available sooner or later.

I'm crossing fingers Pentax is in the way of 4K.
Since the press release and spec sheets make no mention of it, I don't think mechanical SR is back.

I've sent an e-mail to Ricoh for clarification nevertheless.

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06-08-2016, 10:51 PM   #3
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Has real SR returned after going missing for all these years?

That's the big question. The camera looks nice. Good feature set, but it's missing the real bit that would make it great!

---------- Post added 06-09-16 at 05:55 PM ----------

I haven't seen any mention of 'Movie SR' anywhere though...
06-09-2016, 12:24 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
Has real SR returned after going missing for all these years?

That's the big question. The camera looks nice. Good feature set, but it's missing the real bit that would make it great!

---------- Post added 06-09-16 at 05:55 PM ----------

I haven't seen any mention of 'Movie SR' anywhere though...
If there is no Movie SR either that would already make it worth considering for me... (as long as it means no crop!)

06-09-2016, 05:18 PM   #5
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I just got confirmation that the video SR is electronic, just like on other recent Pentax bodies.

@Leoi

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06-09-2016, 06:09 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
I just got confirmation that the video SR is electronic, just like on other recent Pentax bodies.

@Leoi
Thanks.


Your loss Pentax.


Seriously can the forum administrators really ram this home next time you do one of those sit down interviews please. Pentax as a company is notoriously difficult to reach, and they need to know that users want this, even if buried under a menu option where the user has to acknowledge a warning that the mechanism may make some sound. Sony and Olympus have this working. Pentax themselves had this working. It's just ridiculous that they can sit there an pass off this 'Movie SR' rubbish as being a viable alternative.
06-09-2016, 06:25 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
Thanks.


Your loss Pentax.


Seriously can the forum administrators really ram this home next time you do one of those sit down interviews please. Pentax as a company is notoriously difficult to reach, and they need to know that users want this, even if buried under a menu option where the user has to acknowledge a warning that the mechanism may make some sound. Sony and Olympus have this working. Pentax themselves had this working. It's just ridiculous that they can sit there an pass off this 'Movie SR' rubbish as being a viable alternative.
I think they've heard us loud and clear. Frankly, I have a hunch that there's something they're not telling us about why mechanical stabilization hasn't made a return. Perhaps there are situations in which electronic SR is more effective, potential damage to the assembly, or inability to stabilize for an extended duration.

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06-09-2016, 06:44 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Leoi Quote

I'm crossing fingers Pentax is in the way of 4K.
No 4k, Leoi,

06-09-2016, 07:25 PM - 1 Like   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
I think they've heard us loud and clear. Frankly, I have a hunch that there's something they're not telling us about why mechanical stabilization hasn't made a return. Perhaps there are situations in which electronic SR is more effective, potential damage to the assembly, or inability to stabilize for an extended duration.


I don't think it's been pushed hard enough personally. I've watched all the interviews and they've all been let off the hook much too easily in my opinion.


Fully agree though, I think there's more to it for sure. Noise doesn't seem big enough of an issue to not at least provide a menu option with a warning in the manual. This new model has a mic in socket also, meaning you could record with an isolated shotgun mic that excludes local noises etc. The do that already in the manual for example with one of the picture effects, with a warning that it may not work in some circumstances. The 'too much noise' excuse just doesn't cut it and I want them to know that.
I think at the end of the day though, they need to know that the electronic option is not acceptable, and redesign a mechanical solution that can/does work. Ask Pentax 6 years ago, Sony or Olympus as they all have it working...

This video offering looks to be the K-3 package, which was slightly better (added 1080 @ 60fps interlaced!?!) than the 2012 K-30/K-01 offering.

That's an area with no development in 4 years, and also 4 years of craptastic footage warping 'Movie SR' that is non linear, and can't be rectified in post.

Don't get me wrong, the stills side of things is awesome, and the new features are most definitely welcomed, but a few tweaks could make the video component: better, competitive in 2016 and overall contribute to a more complete package product.
06-09-2016, 08:28 PM   #10
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I think the "noise" explanation is merely the simplest answer Ricoh is willing to give that has some truth it. I'm sure the technical reasons are so arcane they would make all but an electrical engineer, physicist or signal processing theorist's eyes glaze over. What do they mean by "noise"? Is it the physical noise of the stabilization unit or is it digital or signal noise in the circuitry?

Ricoh seems to be picking and fighting the battles they can win. Look at the K-1. Prior to the announcement of this camera Ricoh said the would only produce a full-frame body that had features unlike anything else in the FF market. A full-frame body with 4K, 1080p 60fps mechanical stabilized would make Canon, Nikon, and Sony yawn. Pixel Shift Resolution is a game changer.
06-10-2016, 02:51 AM   #11
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Confirmed Movie SR

I'll keep my money.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j5gan1ckmaxrb6c/K-70_Operating_Manual_ENG_web.pdf?dl=0
06-10-2016, 03:58 AM   #12
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Adam, it works great for very prolongued use in my K-5, with literally hundreds of hours of use, sometimes very bumpy.

I think Pentax may not have realized how little we care about audio, if the video is good. That's the point that needs to be gotten across.

Canon and Nikon would wet their pants if the K-1 had that feature set, even Sony would get worried.
06-10-2016, 08:01 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Adam, it works great for very prolongued use in my K-5, with literally hundreds of hours of use, sometimes very bumpy.

I think Pentax may not have realized how little we care about audio, if the video is good. That's the point that needs to be gotten across.

Canon and Nikon would wet their pants if the K-1 had that feature set, even Sony would get worried.
By bumpy I meant that the sensor keeps hitting the edge every second or two.

Pixel Shift Resolution is neat, but for a rather limited audience only. First of all you need to have a motive that is THAT still. Then you need to have a tripod that is really strong and stable. And THEN you need to actually have the need for more than 36 MP/shoot stuff that confuses the hell out of the Bayer pattern. I have 16 MP, and that's enough for what I do pretty much most of the time, and the K-1 has 36 MP, soooooo it's so far ahead of what I need (even for commercial uses) that pixel shift is pointless for me.

While good video functionality also only appeals to a niche, I wouldn't be surprised if that niche is at least as big. Plus video SR lends to flashy and cool ads that can even go viral, the camera may be used by a couple of users whose work is seen by many, and when they read it was a Pentax...

Finally, SR is a battle they can win. All the reasons I've heard... heating up the sensor, maybe they mean higher noise as in high ISO, higher wear, ... all those things can be communicated with customers/potential users, and while some would say ok, I'll skip the feature, there'll be enough who like it regardless. What is the harm in offering the option (as long as it works somewhat...), unless they need to invest a lot in activating it? IIRC the K-1 had SR working with a video feed, it appeared that way when I tried the K-1 in live view. So the algorithm is there.

@Adam: It would be awesome if the next time you talk to someone from Pentax, especially in an interview situation, you could ask them about users who use external microphones and record in camera, or those who use external microphones and external recorders Or perhaps show them a clip of how bad the Movie SR performs, even on the K-1, and ask for comment.
06-10-2016, 08:50 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
By bumpy I meant that the sensor keeps hitting the edge every second or two.

Pixel Shift Resolution is neat, but for a rather limited audience only. First of all you need to have a motive that is THAT still. Then you need to have a tripod that is really strong and stable. And THEN you need to actually have the need for more than 36 MP/shoot stuff that confuses the hell out of the Bayer pattern. I have 16 MP, and that's enough for what I do pretty much most of the time, and the K-1 has 36 MP, soooooo it's so far ahead of what I need (even for commercial uses) that pixel shift is pointless for me.

While good video functionality also only appeals to a niche, I wouldn't be surprised if that niche is at least as big. Plus video SR lends to flashy and cool ads that can even go viral, the camera may be used by a couple of users whose work is seen by many, and when they read it was a Pentax...

Finally, SR is a battle they can win. All the reasons I've heard... heating up the sensor, maybe they mean higher noise as in high ISO, higher wear, ... all those things can be communicated with customers/potential users, and while some would say ok, I'll skip the feature, there'll be enough who like it regardless. What is the harm in offering the option (as long as it works somewhat...), unless they need to invest a lot in activating it? IIRC the K-1 had SR working with a video feed, it appeared that way when I tried the K-1 in live view. So the algorithm is there.

@Adam: It would be awesome if the next time you talk to someone from Pentax, especially in an interview situation, you could ask them about users who use external microphones and record in camera, or those who use external microphones and external recorders Or perhaps show them a clip of how bad the Movie SR performs, even on the K-1, and ask for comment.
I second this.
06-10-2016, 12:35 PM   #15
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Sony: "Disable IBIS for DSLR video or go back to Samsung for your sensors"
Ricoh: "Oh, ok - will do"
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