Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
03-18-2019, 08:24 AM   #16
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 344
QuoteOriginally posted by littlemoose Quote
Does anyone know if the k-70 has the same type of aperture/solenoid mechanism as the k-50, K-30 etc-prone to failure ?
The mechanism has been modified, it is similar but not the same.
You can see it HERE .

The screw which fixes the solenoid sits now on the left side (which will not affect the way it works).

According to the Japanese Head of Ricoh France the design has been changed.

Nevertheless a few K70's have failed.

03-18-2019, 10:45 AM   #17
Otis Memorial Pentaxian
Loyal Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 32,108
QuoteOriginally posted by photogem Quote
Nevertheless a few K70's have failed.
...but none of the very few reports on this sight have been confirmed to involve the aperture control block*.

K-70 Underexposed Photo Reports - PentaxForums.com


Steve

* More properly, "Diaphragm Control Block", the proper assembly name in the Pentax parts lists.
03-19-2019, 12:06 AM   #18
New Member




Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 5
Does the change in selonoid mounting really fix problem occuring in earlier models? As I looked many users said that failure was due to cheaply made „green type” of selonoid- the same as seen in photos above... As for me it looks like Pentax ingeneers said „lets switch sides of this screw and tell people that we changed design of aperture block, no money invested in quality and they stop complain for a while”.
03-19-2019, 01:41 AM   #19
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 344
QuoteOriginally posted by JerzyJ Quote
Does the change in selonoid mounting really fix problem occuring in earlier models? As I looked many users said that failure was due to cheaply made „green type” of selonoid- the same as seen in photos above... As for me it looks like Pentax ingeneers said „lets switch sides of this screw and tell people that we changed design of aperture block, no money invested in quality and they stop complain for a while”.
I don't think so.
When Ricoh noticed the problem the K-S1 and K-S2 where already out.
They could not change the design anymore, it would involve not necesserely a rise in voltage but a rise in milli-amperes (or both). This is why often (at least for a while) the K30/50/500 would work with Eneloops, because they allow higher surge.

Sometimes people even noticed that the problem with the Li-Ion battery was stronger when it was fully charged.


I strongly believe the engineers found out too late, for a long time hoped it would not be that big and when it finally turned out that it was big, it was too late, the K-S1 and 2 were in the shops! I also believe that they then already did something, there was a massive "outlet sale" of K-S1's and K-S2's on the EU market (particular Germany), I believe they took new ones back into repair and modified something and sold them as ex-dem units!

Usually it is not engineers which make wrong decisions, its the econo-mist (mist in German = dung!)
But the engineers get slapped! They are forced to follow "those, who don't know a thing" but "pretend to know everything"

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
...but none of the very few reports on this sight have been confirmed to involve the aperture control block*.

K-70 Underexposed Photo Reports - PentaxForums.com

* More properly, "Diaphragm Control Block", the proper assembly name in the Pentax parts lists.
Because repaired at Pentax.

With all K70's repaired and reported in Germany Ricoh wrote that it was the "Magnetschalter", which is the German translation for solenoid (magnetic switch)


Last edited by photogem; 03-24-2019 at 11:12 AM.
03-19-2019, 02:52 AM   #20
New Member




Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 5
QuoteOriginally posted by photogem Quote
I
When Ricoh noticed the problem the K-S1 and K-S2 where already out.
They could not change the design anymore, it would involve not necesserely a rise in voltage but a rise in milli-amperes (or both). This is why often (at least for a while)
the K30/50/500 would work with Eneloops, because they allow higher surge.
No, I won’t take it. There was enough time since K30-KS2 lines to manage it before setting K70 on market. And those lies about changing design... shame on pentax. Now I’m thinking about selling my K70 and buying something more reliable...
03-19-2019, 02:54 AM - 2 Likes   #21
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: May 2013
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posts: 383
While it is more than disappointing when we personally suffer a device failure, perhaps we should consider some general realities.

According to a report by a warranty company ( Digital Camera Failure Rates - Camera Reliability - Camera Quality ), approximately 5% of digital cameras in the K-70 price range fail due to malfunctions during the first two years. According to the Pentax Forums Aperture Block Failure Survey ( Pentax Aperture Block Failure Survey Results - Articles and Tips | PentaxForums.com ), there were about 5000 members who owned the relevant cameras; is it reasonable to assume that there might now be about 1000 K-70 owners here? The K-70 is nearly 3 years old, so we might expect about 50 failures here - how many reports of any faults so far?

None of the camera companies is perfect in this regard; some are better than others but all have broadly similar statistics. All have to balance these statistics (and lots of other predictions and projections) with their costs, pricing policies, revenues and reputations. But if we want to expect closer to perfection, every component from multiple supply sources would have to be inspected and guaranteed for reliability, and consequently we should expect a substantial increase to the retail price. Similarly if we want to expect a company to fund repairs or replacements for unforeseen possible future malfunctions well beyond the statutory warranty periods, we should also expect another increase to the retail price.

Some perspective is not just a feature of our images.

Philip
03-19-2019, 03:40 AM - 2 Likes   #22
Senior Moderator
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
BigMackCam's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North-East England
Posts: 11,883
QuoteOriginally posted by JerzyJ Quote
Does the change in selonoid mounting really fix problem occuring in earlier models? As I looked many users said that failure was due to cheaply made „green type” of selonoid- the same as seen in photos above... As for me it looks like Pentax ingeneers said „lets switch sides of this screw and tell people that we changed design of aperture block, no money invested in quality and they stop complain for a while”.
QuoteOriginally posted by JerzyJ Quote
No, I won’t take it. There was enough time since K30-KS2 lines to manage it before setting K70 on market. And those lies about changing design... shame on pentax. Now I’m thinking about selling my K70 and buying something more reliable...
I usually stick up for Ricoh / Pentax and try to remain balanced in my views of its actions... But I do think the the aperture solenoid issue has been poorly dealt with by the company, and a certain amount of previous owners of the K-30 and K-50 - and a much, much smaller number of K-S1, K-S2 and K-70 owners - that have had their cameras fail after warranty will be understandably dissatisfied. I'd stop short of accusing Ricoh of lying, though. Economical with the facts might be a more accurate description

That said... unless you've already experienced the problem with your K-70, selling it now for "something more reliable" seems, with respect, rather premature to me. It's a cracking camera, and we may find the failure rate to be much lower than with the earlier models. As @MrB1 rightly points out, there is some failure rate with all cameras, regardless of brand and model...
03-19-2019, 03:44 AM   #23
New Member




Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 5
QuoteOriginally posted by MrB1 Quote
While it is more than disappointing when we personally suffer a device failure, perhaps we should consider some general realities.

According to a report by a warranty company ( Digital Camera Failure Rates - Camera Reliability - Camera Quality ), approximately 5% of digital cameras in the K-70 price range fail due to malfunctions during the first two years. According to the Pentax Forums Aperture Block Failure Survey ( Pentax Aperture Block Failure Survey Results - Articles and Tips | PentaxForums.com ), there were about 5000 members who owned the relevant cameras; is it reasonable to assume that there might now be about 1000 K-70 owners here? The K-70 is nearly 3 years old, so we might expect about 50 failures here - how many reports of any faults so far?

None of the camera companies is perfect in this regard; some are better than others but all have broadly similar statistics. All have to balance these statistics (and lots of other predictions and projections) with their costs, pricing policies, revenues and reputations. But if we want to expect closer to perfection, every component from multiple supply sources would have to be inspected and guaranteed for reliability, and consequently we should expect a substantial increase to the retail price. Similarly if we want to expect a company to fund repairs or replacements for unforeseen possible future malfunctions well beyond the statutory warranty periods, we should also expect another increase to the retail price.

Some perspective is not just a feature of our images.

Philip
All of this is true BUT I’m not angry that Pentax is not offering immortal gear. I’m angry beacuse they are facing problem which is more often than 5% overall, they are admitting that problem exists, they are aware of it and talk about changes in design which seems to be just switching sides of one screw that solves nothing. Not to mention that many users fixed this with overall cost of 30-60usd.
In previous models there was consideration of „not if, but when failure will happen” scale of prolem. As travel-hobbist photographer I expect not immortal but reliable equipment and the time bomb is not one. Hope there is real, not visible at first glance improvement in solenoid design but now- as first reports suggest- there isn’t.

03-19-2019, 04:18 AM - 2 Likes   #24
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: May 2013
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posts: 383
QuoteOriginally posted by JerzyJ Quote
I’m angry because they are facing problem which is more often than 5% overall
Do you have evidence for this claim?

The PF Survey was sent to 5000 owners of the supposedly problem cameras. People are not usually reticent when it comes to reporting costly failures which are not of their own making, yet only 143 reported the Aperture Block Failure - that is 2.86%.

It is, of course, very disappointing that Pentax-Ricoh were so slow to respond after the reports of the K-30 faults - those were followed by similar proportions of faults in the K-50. However, they seem to have done something to improve the affected mechanism - there have been few reported cases for the K-S1/2 and hardly any for the nearly 3-year-old K-70. What there are lie well within the overall general digital camera failure statistics.

Philip
03-19-2019, 04:37 AM   #25
New Member




Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 5
QuoteOriginally posted by MrB1 Quote
Do you have evidence for this claim?
We had similar survey on Polish forum which show ~23% of splenoid failures, 13% within first 10k shutter activations. I have to admit that methodology of this survey was different and no K70 user reported failure at the time.
PENTAX@PL :: Awaria w K-30 i dalszych

Again, I have to admit that each model has smaller group of aperture-related complaints, but 6-8reports within 3 months which can be found on this forum starts to built a concern.

And again I strongly hope that change in design was a fact and is just not visible, I don’t think about changing systems in next 5 years at least as Pentax is real gamechanger in entry level market in aspect of picture quality and durability. The only thing I can consider is to sell my k70 untill it loses it’s value and buy KP which seems to be more reliable and durable.
03-19-2019, 05:52 AM - 1 Like   #26
Pentaxian
Site Supporter
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 31,898
A DSLR has more moving parts than a car. Get used to it.
03-19-2019, 07:50 AM - 1 Like   #27
retired sw engineer
Loyal Site Supporter
reh321's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,296
QuoteOriginally posted by JerzyJ Quote
No, I won’t take it. There was enough time since K30-KS2 lines to manage it before setting K70 on market. And those lies about changing design... shame on pentax. Now I’m thinking about selling my K70 and buying something more reliable...
How do you plan to identify a model which is more reliable than your {still-working} K-70?

In 1995, when I was ready to go AF, I switched from Pentax to Canon because I liked the whisper-quiet EF/USM lens mount used by Canon; when I was ready to go digital, I stayed with Canon. In the next seven years, I had two Rebels fail, both having processor issues for some time before they failed; 7 years may seem like a long time, but the second one lasted just 20 months, and the two had a total shutter count of 4352. In order to get a more reliable inexpensive camera, I got a K-30!! Yes, my K-30 did develop aperture control issues, but that was after 40 months {twice age the second Rebel died}, and it still limps along with a shutter count of 4042 {both Rebels are in the dump - they had been totally dead - so their total isn't advancing}. Don't assume that another company will make more reliable consumer level cameras.
03-19-2019, 10:18 AM   #28
Otis Memorial Pentaxian
Loyal Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 32,108
QuoteOriginally posted by photogem Quote
With all K70's repaired and reported in Germany Ricoh wrote that it was the "Magnetschalter", which is the German translation for solenoid (magnetic switch)
That is an interesting piece of information. Out of curiosity, how many K-70's with aperture control problems have been reported in Germany and how many confirmed with this as the cause? I tried Google ("Pentax K-70 Magnetschalter") but got zero pertinent results using those search terms.


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 03-19-2019 at 10:37 AM.
03-19-2019, 10:36 AM   #29
Otis Memorial Pentaxian
Loyal Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 32,108
Welcome to the Pentax Forums!

QuoteOriginally posted by JerzyJ Quote
I’m angry beacuse they are facing problem which is more often than 5% overall,
Of the K-70 model?

You are welcome to sell your K-70 as a means of avoiding possible failure, but be aware that the serious failure rate for Pentax is similar to that of other dSLR manufacturers, even including the K-30/K-50 problems and that no maker pulls significantly ahead of the herd in terms of reliability.


Steve
03-19-2019, 10:53 AM - 3 Likes   #30
Otis Memorial Pentaxian
Loyal Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 32,108
QuoteOriginally posted by JerzyJ Quote
Again, I have to admit that each model has smaller group of aperture-related complaints, but 6-8reports within 3 months which can be found on this forum starts to built a concern.
The number of reports of confirmed aperture control problems for the K-70 on this site is four (4) total since the camera's release (June 2016), all of which in the last seven months. Root cause remains unknown for all four. One of those four was reported from Poland by forum member @asalwa. That camera was repaired out-of-warranty by Pentax, though it is not known what service was performed.

In the Pentax@PL link you shared, 21 respondents out of 68 total reported solenoid problems with the K-30, K-50, K-500, K-S1, K-S2, (K-70?). There was no breakdown by model except for member comments. The last comment was posted Feb, 2019 with the survey started April, 2017. I read several of the comments and it appears that the discussion degenerated into a pattern familiar to users on this site. With any luck this thread will not follow a similar pattern.

Best wishes!



Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 03-19-2019 at 11:37 AM. Reason: Completeness
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
aperture, aperture control, control, engineers, forum, germany, issue, k-70, k-s1, k70, k70 aperture, months, pentax, pentax k-70, please, post, reports, ricoh, rise, survey, switch
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What lens is suitable for K50 with aperture block failure Theov39 Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 17 03-06-2018 11:01 AM
Pentax k 500 aperture block failure resolved! zburatoru Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 28 02-01-2018 09:37 AM
K500 aperture block Dododo Pentax DSLR Discussion 6 04-27-2017 10:48 AM
Do I have aperture block failure (and where do I fix it)? redridinghood Repairs and Warranty Service 5 03-29-2017 08:25 AM
does the K70 have the same aperture control block as the KS2? pcake Pentax K-70 16 02-09-2017 07:24 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:46 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top