K-70 vs K-S2 at 6400 and 12800?

Kozlok · 09-12-2019, 07:03 PM

I read the PF review of the K-70, and they have great comparison images of K-70 vs K-S2 at ISO 51200, but I find that ISO useless in both cases. What I'd really like to see is an ISO 3200, 6400 and 12800 comparison, in lighting conditions that would typically call for these ISO settings.

Has anyone seen this as a direct comparison; same lens, same subject, same lighting?

I'm trying to decide if upgrading to a K-70 makes any sense at all. I'm quite happy with my K-S2 until ISO climbs to 6400 or higher. Those are usable as snapshots, but not really what I'd call great. I'd like to see about 1 1/2 stops better to make me feel that I'd gotten my money's worth.

I've recently acquired a Sigma 18-35, and I'm also hopeful that the handling would be better with the better grip of the K-70.

aaacb · 09-12-2019, 07:12 PM

dpreview.com has both cameras in the studio shot comparison. I have a k3ii (about same generation as the ks2 noise-wise I think) and I'm waiting for the next one to decide if I'm upgrading for a better sensor.

Kozlok · 09-12-2019, 08:16 PM

Hadn't even thought of that. Looking at the Studio Scene comparison on DPR, I'd say it's about a stop and a half for RAW files. ISO 12800 RAW on the K-70 is better than 6400 on the K-S2, but not quite as good as 3200 on the K-S2.

That's the worst answer for me. If it were 2 full stops, this would be a no-brainer. But with it being a stop and a half, and the "half" looks to be NR from the accelerator, which I can replicate in lightroom, that means it's probably a real 1 stop improvement. I suppose if I could pick one up cheap, I could keep the K-S2 as a good-light backup body.

**dms** · 09-12-2019, 09:09 PM

if you check the dynamic range in Photographic Dynamic Range versus ISO Setting (and likely in DXOmark) until the "cooked image" in the K-70 at a moderate iso, they are essentially the same (about 1/2 stop advantage for the K-70); and then with the cooked image (above about iso = 600), there is about 2 stops wider DR in the K-70 (whatever that means--as I would think you can do the same with raw file from the K-S2 in pp).

Trickortreat · 09-12-2019, 11:41 PM

Yeh, there really isnt a big difference between first generation and later 24MP senosrs. Better save your money for something else.

swanlefitte · 09-12-2019, 11:45 PM

I have a ks-2. I would not upgrade for dark spaces. The k1 and kp are verging on worth. A half stop more and that is affirmative. I do use flash for much under exposed subjects. Between bad iOS and flash is the zone I hate and avoid. One stop is shutter 90/180 in bad light. That rarely matters. 90/260 does in my experience. Non moving subjects can have a very slow shutter so iOS is not so important. Moving subjects, even walking need a shutter of at least 180. So 260 for all action beyond walking is a minimum. The ks2 can do that under a street light but a k70 might do that 2 meters from the street light. Is that enough to upgrade? How about autofocus? I don't know.

The Squirrel Mafia · 09-13-2019, 06:51 AM

The K-70 does a bit better at ISO 12800 than the K-S2. It's not like a massive leap, but after comparing lots of RAW files from Imaging-Resource & DPR, you can definitely see the the K-70 has better IQ. The KP is the one that really pulls ahead. That one is very usable at ISO 25600. The K-70 starts to fall apart there.

**Merv-O** · 09-14-2019, 01:25 AM

Originally posted by Kozlok

I suppose if I could pick one up cheap, I could keep the K-S2 as a good-light backup body.

I agree. The K-S2 gives up very little to the K-70 and since it has routinely been considered the Pentax "step child" (even in this forumz0, you can pick up new copies for less than $450 these days. The 20mp sensor is a gem and it is truly a nice lightweight alternative to my heavier bodies. One caveat: some older serial number bodies (pre-December, 2014) have the dreaded shutter issue--see the Forum thread on this issue. However, I have had mine for a year-and-a- half and no issues (currently at about 2200 shutter activations).

**photogem** · 09-27-2019, 12:00 AM

Originally posted by Merv-O

One caveat: some older serial number bodies (pre-December, 2014) have the dreaded shutter issue--see the Forum thread on this issue.

Pre-December 2015!

Came on the market February 2015, in 2014 it wasn't available on the market

Also after Dec. 2015 the K-50/500 and K-S1 should have the better solenoid.

This was the thread where we discussed this:
Dark exposure problems on K-30 or K-50? Discussion Thread - Page 5 - PentaxForums.com

The earliest K-S2 which I had with a stuck solenoid was manufactured Nov. 2014 and this was a prototype, i.e. sent to people for testing.
The earliest K-S1 with stuck solenoid I had for repair was manufactured Aug. 2014 which is the time it was introduced.

I never had a K-50 manufactured after Dec. 2015 on my worktable, nor K500/K-S1/K-S2!

Nevertheless, in rare occasions the solenoid still makes problems as we have seen with the K-70. But it is rare.
Something really was done there and figures concerning the K-S1 and K-S2 prove it already.

Kozlok · 10-04-2019, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by photogem

Pre-December 2015!
Also after Dec. 2015 the K-50/500 and K-S1 should have the better solenoid.

Well, my K-S2 was manufactured in 03/2015, so one of the earliest ones. I have almost 14,000 snaps on it, zero aperture lag. Thought I had a problem when I was trying out the new 55-300 PLM, but it was just because I needed the firmware update.

**photogem** · 10-05-2019, 01:14 AM

With a shuttercount of 14.000 you use it very well and thus a good chance for it to last.
It's usually those with lower shuttercount and sometimes not being used for weeks when the dreaded aperture failure happens.

09-12-2019, 07:03 PM	#1
Kozlok Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Albuquerque Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,148	K-70 vs K-S2 at 6400 and 12800? I read the PF review of the K-70, and they have great comparison images of K-70 vs K-S2 at ISO 51200, but I find that ISO useless in both cases. What I'd really like to see is an ISO 3200, 6400 and 12800 comparison, in lighting conditions that would typically call for these ISO settings. Has anyone seen this as a direct comparison; same lens, same subject, same lighting? I'm trying to decide if upgrading to a K-70 makes any sense at all. I'm quite happy with my K-S2 until ISO climbs to 6400 or higher. Those are usable as snapshots, but not really what I'd call great. I'd like to see about 1 1/2 stops better to make me feel that I'd gotten my money's worth. I've recently acquired a Sigma 18-35, and I'm also hopeful that the handling would be better with the better grip of the K-70.

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09-12-2019, 07:12 PM	#2
aaacb Pentaxian Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,726	dpreview.com has both cameras in the studio shot comparison. I have a k3ii (about same generation as the ks2 noise-wise I think) and I'm waiting for the next one to decide if I'm upgrading for a better sensor.

09-12-2019, 08:16 PM	#3
Kozlok Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Albuquerque Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,148 Original Poster	Hadn't even thought of that. Looking at the Studio Scene comparison on DPR, I'd say it's about a stop and a half for RAW files. ISO 12800 RAW on the K-70 is better than 6400 on the K-S2, but not quite as good as 3200 on the K-S2. That's the worst answer for me. If it were 2 full stops, this would be a no-brainer. But with it being a stop and a half, and the "half" looks to be NR from the accelerator, which I can replicate in lightroom, that means it's probably a real 1 stop improvement. I suppose if I could pick one up cheap, I could keep the K-S2 as a good-light backup body.

09-12-2019, 09:09 PM	#4
dms Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: New York, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,192	if you check the dynamic range in Photographic Dynamic Range versus ISO Setting (and likely in DXOmark) until the "cooked image" in the K-70 at a moderate iso, they are essentially the same (about 1/2 stop advantage for the K-70); and then with the cooked image (above about iso = 600), there is about 2 stops wider DR in the K-70 (whatever that means--as I would think you can do the same with raw file from the K-S2 in pp).

09-12-2019, 11:41 PM	#5
Trickortreat Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 561	Yeh, there really isnt a big difference between first generation and later 24MP senosrs. Better save your money for something else.

09-12-2019, 11:45 PM	#6
swanlefitte Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Location: Minneapolis Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,068	I have a ks-2. I would not upgrade for dark spaces. The k1 and kp are verging on worth. A half stop more and that is affirmative. I do use flash for much under exposed subjects. Between bad iOS and flash is the zone I hate and avoid. One stop is shutter 90/180 in bad light. That rarely matters. 90/260 does in my experience. Non moving subjects can have a very slow shutter so iOS is not so important. Moving subjects, even walking need a shutter of at least 180. So 260 for all action beyond walking is a minimum. The ks2 can do that under a street light but a k70 might do that 2 meters from the street light. Is that enough to upgrade? How about autofocus? I don't know.

09-13-2019, 06:51 AM	#7
The Squirrel Mafia Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 3,056	The K-70 does a bit better at ISO 12800 than the K-S2. It's not like a massive leap, but after comparing lots of RAW files from Imaging-Resource & DPR, you can definitely see the the K-70 has better IQ. The KP is the one that really pulls ahead. That one is very usable at ISO 25600. The K-70 starts to fall apart there.

09-14-2019, 01:25 AM	#8
Merv-O Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Philadelphia Photos: Albums Posts: 2,098	Originally posted by Kozlok I suppose if I could pick one up cheap, I could keep the K-S2 as a good-light backup body. I agree. The K-S2 gives up very little to the K-70 and since it has routinely been considered the Pentax "step child" (even in this forumz0, you can pick up new copies for less than $450 these days. The 20mp sensor is a gem and it is truly a nice lightweight alternative to my heavier bodies. One caveat: some older serial number bodies (pre-December, 2014) have the dreaded shutter issue--see the Forum thread on this issue. However, I have had mine for a year-and-a- half and no issues (currently at about 2200 shutter activations).

09-27-2019, 12:00 AM	#9
photogem Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 3,522	Originally posted by Merv-O One caveat: some older serial number bodies (pre-December, 2014) have the dreaded shutter issue--see the Forum thread on this issue. Pre-December 2015! Came on the market February 2015, in 2014 it wasn't available on the market Also after Dec. 2015 the K-50/500 and K-S1 should have the better solenoid. This was the thread where we discussed this: Dark exposure problems on K-30 or K-50? Discussion Thread - Page 5 - PentaxForums.com The earliest K-S2 which I had with a stuck solenoid was manufactured Nov. 2014 and this was a prototype, i.e. sent to people for testing. The earliest K-S1 with stuck solenoid I had for repair was manufactured Aug. 2014 which is the time it was introduced. I never had a K-50 manufactured after Dec. 2015 on my worktable, nor K500/K-S1/K-S2! Nevertheless, in rare occasions the solenoid still makes problems as we have seen with the K-70. But it is rare. Something really was done there and figures concerning the K-S1 and K-S2 prove it already.

10-04-2019, 06:40 PM	#10
Kozlok Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Albuquerque Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,148 Original Poster	Originally posted by photogem Pre-December 2015! Also after Dec. 2015 the K-50/500 and K-S1 should have the better solenoid. Well, my K-S2 was manufactured in 03/2015, so one of the earliest ones. I have almost 14,000 snaps on it, zero aperture lag. Thought I had a problem when I was trying out the new 55-300 PLM, but it was just because I needed the firmware update.

10-05-2019, 01:14 AM	#11
photogem Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 3,522	With a shuttercount of 14.000 you use it very well and thus a good chance for it to last. It's usually those with lower shuttercount and sometimes not being used for weeks when the dreaded aperture failure happens.