Hope for Electronic Shutter feature in K-70

PentaMiCL · 10-02-2019, 05:48 PM

I recently switched to K-70 from a canon mirrorless. I was always envious of the up to 2000 shots-multi-exposure and astrotracer features. Now that I have them, I realized I was taken away one feature that I always had for the past 8 years or so, without really ever wanting it or appreciating it -- the electronic shutter.

See, with the other cameras, I would have never even dreamt of actuating the shutter 10,000 times in one day - not a single camera out there has the ability to stack 2,000 photos in-camera. The next best thing out there can stack 10.

Now that the brand new prices are only $150 difference, the third dial alone could be worth the difference between K-70 and KP, but as much as I prefer the fully articulating screen of the K-70, I still cannot stop thinking about trading in my K-70 and spending a couple hundred more to change to a KP, just for the electronic shutter...

The K-70 does use an electronic shutter during the actuation of a pixel-shift hi-res shot. I doubt the two models are even remotely as similar as K-30 and K-50, but I can't help but dream of some ingenious way of activating the electronic shutter in K-70 that is available in KP.

I'm grasping for straws, but if anyone has insight as to how my dream might come true (sending Pentax a feature request??), please let me know...

Or... anyone out there that chose Pentax because of its multi-exposure capabilities? (I mainly use the averaging feature as a pseudo live-ND).

MetalUndivided · 10-02-2019, 05:55 PM - **1 Like**

I think the KP might be the way to go. It's got an extra dial, better AF, metal body and the electronic shutter you're looking for.

Adam · 10-02-2019, 06:09 PM - **1 Like**

I would also recommend the KP...it has a specified shutter life and a shutter made of much more durable materials.

That said, even with ES enabled, I believe the actual shutter mechanism will still see some wear.

Gerbermiester · 10-02-2019, 08:41 PM - **1 Like**

The KP is the way to go. No doubt about it

PentaMiCL · 10-03-2019, 01:31 AM

Originally posted by Adam

I would also recommend the KP...it has a specified shutter life and a shutter made of much more durable materials.

That said, even with ES enabled, I believe the actual shutter mechanism will still see some wear.

Thank you Adam and all. Yes, I am looking at the KP right now but it's just excruciating because my wife just bought me this K-70 only a month ago... trading in a birthday present for cash to buy a different camera...

I don't mind that the mechanical shutter actuates, say, at the beginning and end of a round of continuous shooting, for example. If the mechanical shutter actuates as many shots as I take using the electronic shutter, that would be pointless. In short, if I can take multiple-exposures using a (the?) silent mode, that would be ideal.

Adam · 10-03-2019, 01:56 AM

Originally posted by PentaMiCL

Thank you Adam and all. Yes, I am looking at the KP right now but it's just excruciating because my wife just bought me this K-70 only a month ago... trading in a birthday present for cash to buy a different camera...

I don't mind that the mechanical shutter actuates, say, at the beginning and end of a round of continuous shooting, for example. If the mechanical shutter actuates as many shots as I take using the electronic shutter, that would be pointless. In short, if I can take multiple-exposures using a (the?) silent mode, that would be ideal.

In such a scenario you'd spare the mirror from going up and down, but the rear curtain of the mechanical shutter would still be used, I believe.

Kozlok · 10-03-2019, 04:05 AM

I don’t think it’s the mirror likely wearing out but the actual shutter, but the KP shutter is more durable.

How often do you plan on shooting thousands of shot stacks? You could just go for it with the K-70 and replace it when it breaks. You’ve already lost all the new depreciation; you won’t get nearly as much money for your used gear as you think you will.

Also, I am curious to see the results.

Last edited by Kozlok; 10-03-2019 at 04:16 AM.

PentaMiCL · 10-03-2019, 11:16 PM

Originally posted by Adam

In such a scenario you'd spare the mirror from going up and down, but the rear curtain of the mechanical shutter would still be used, I believe.

I think you are describing the Electronic First Curtain Shutter feature that is used for reducing shake. From what I've read there seems to be a separate fully electronic mode that you can use to go beyond 1/6000s and also for shooting more quietly (you still hear the motor opening/closing the aperture after shots). That's the mode that I need since the electronic first curtain shutter will only halve my shutter count.

PentaMiCL · 10-03-2019, 11:39 PM

Originally posted by Kozlok

I don’t think it’s the mirror likely wearing out but the actual shutter, but the KP shutter is more durable.

How often do you plan on shooting thousands of shot stacks? You could just go for it with the K-70 and replace it when it breaks. You’ve already lost all the new depreciation; you won’t get nearly as much money for your used gear as you think you will.

Also, I am curious to see the results.

During my last trip, I only went as high as 100 shutter actuations per photo. Sometimes I only did 50 exposures. Still, I'll reach the 100,000 actuations before I get 2,000 pictures... and I would have doubled and quadrupled the number of exposures with a larger aperture (smaller F stop) if I needn't worry about the shutter count -- instead, I went all the way down to F22 for many of the shots which is not really the aperture I want to use.

Nothing special about the shots that I got in Hawaii, but I am posting per your request. I think it does a fairly good job of emulating an ND filter. I would use ND filters as well, but this seems like a pretty usable alternative. There's the added benefit that you can simply stop the continuous shooting if the bird that was still on the tetrapod the whole time suddenly decided to fly away.

Kozlok · 10-04-2019, 05:56 AM

Oh, I like the long exposure look too. I just bought ND filters and do it in 1. Seems cheaper than wearing out the shutter.

**reduno** · 10-08-2019, 02:38 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by PentaMiCL

I don't mind that the mechanical shutter actuates, say, at the beginning and end of a round of continuous shooting, for example. If the mechanical shutter actuates as many shots as I take using the electronic shutter, that would be pointless. In short, if I can take multiple-exposures using a (the?) silent mode, that would be ideal.

I think the other big difference between the Kp and K-70 is the aperture mechanism. On the Kp this uses a separate stepper motor, so the aperture can step down for each shot, even if the mirror stays locked up. On the K-70, the same motor performs both functions, so the aperture cannot stop down without the mirror cycling.

Theoretically, you could use the aperture stepped down with the mirror locked up to take a burst of shots. However, the view finder would be dimmer between shots as the aperture would never open back up. Consequently, I think this may be why Pentax doesn't offer the silent shutter on the K-70.

Incidentally, I did try using pixel shift resolution on a K-3 II in live view, to see if the shutter would remain open. However, it did cycle the mechanical shutter before the sequence of shots (to clear the sensor), so no such luck.

PentaMiCL · 10-09-2019, 12:25 AM

Originally posted by reduno

I think the other big difference between the Kp and K-70 is the aperture mechanism. On the Kp this uses a separate stepper motor, so the aperture can step down for each shot, even if the mirror stays locked up. On the K-70, the same motor performs both functions, so the aperture cannot stop down without the mirror cycling.

Theoretically, you could use the aperture stepped down with the mirror locked up to take a burst of shots. However, the view finder would be dimmer between shots as the aperture would never open back up. Consequently, I think this may be why Pentax doesn't offer the silent shutter on the K-70.

Incidentally, I did try using pixel shift resolution on a K-3 II in live view, to see if the shutter would remain open. However, it did cycle the mechanical shutter before the sequence of shots (to clear the sensor), so no such luck.

That makes a lot of sense. I was wondering why not only the shutter but also the mirror had to go through the full cycle when shooting in LV mode.

I guess, like the pixel shift resolution, it would be possible for the camera to cycle the mirror and shutter once at the beginning of a multiple exposure, and then leave the mechanical shutter open until the end of the multiple exposure, but this seems too niche to be included in a firmware update...

The KP is seeming more and more like a really good buy for me but just in case Pentax might come out with a newer model featuring an EVF, I think I'll stick with my K-70 for a few more months.

I'm really liking using the multiple exposure (averaging) mode as a pseudo ND filter. Olympus and sigma have similar capabilities with their Live ND (5 stops) and ISO 6 (4 stops). Pentax -- without bragging about it -- effectively does 11 stops! The intervals between the shots can be a disadvantage for capturing controlled movement (like a vehicle passing by) but isn't really an issue with random movement like water. Plus, unlike real long exposures (I believe) the pictures are free of long exposure noise, which is also an advantage according to my needs. I also like how I can decide to end the multiple exposure any time and still have a properly exposed shot.

10-02-2019, 05:48 PM	#1
PentaMiCL Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2019 Posts: 37	Hope for Electronic Shutter feature in K-70 I recently switched to K-70 from a canon mirrorless. I was always envious of the up to 2000 shots-multi-exposure and astrotracer features. Now that I have them, I realized I was taken away one feature that I always had for the past 8 years or so, without really ever wanting it or appreciating it -- the electronic shutter. See, with the other cameras, I would have never even dreamt of actuating the shutter 10,000 times in one day - not a single camera out there has the ability to stack 2,000 photos in-camera. The next best thing out there can stack 10. Now that the brand new prices are only $150 difference, the third dial alone could be worth the difference between K-70 and KP, but as much as I prefer the fully articulating screen of the K-70, I still cannot stop thinking about trading in my K-70 and spending a couple hundred more to change to a KP, just for the electronic shutter... The K-70 does use an electronic shutter during the actuation of a pixel-shift hi-res shot. I doubt the two models are even remotely as similar as K-30 and K-50, but I can't help but dream of some ingenious way of activating the electronic shutter in K-70 that is available in KP. I'm grasping for straws, but if anyone has insight as to how my dream might come true (sending Pentax a feature request??), please let me know... Or... anyone out there that chose Pentax because of its multi-exposure capabilities? (I mainly use the averaging feature as a pseudo live-ND).

10-02-2019, 06:09 PM - 1 Like	#3
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,595	I would also recommend the KP...it has a specified shutter life and a shutter made of much more durable materials. That said, even with ES enabled, I believe the actual shutter mechanism will still see some wear. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

10-03-2019, 01:56 AM	#6
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,595	Originally posted by PentaMiCL Thank you Adam and all. Yes, I am looking at the KP right now but it's just excruciating because my wife just bought me this K-70 only a month ago... trading in a birthday present for cash to buy a different camera... I don't mind that the mechanical shutter actuates, say, at the beginning and end of a round of continuous shooting, for example. If the mechanical shutter actuates as many shots as I take using the electronic shutter, that would be pointless. In short, if I can take multiple-exposures using a (the?) silent mode, that would be ideal. In such a scenario you'd spare the mirror from going up and down, but the rear curtain of the mechanical shutter would still be used, I believe. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

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10-02-2019, 05:55 PM - 1 Like	#2
MetalUndivided Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Irkutsk, Russia Posts: 134	I think the KP might be the way to go. It's got an extra dial, better AF, metal body and the electronic shutter you're looking for.

10-02-2019, 08:41 PM - 1 Like	#4
Gerbermiester Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: British Columbia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 377	The KP is the way to go. No doubt about it

10-03-2019, 01:31 AM	#5
PentaMiCL Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2019 Posts: 37 Original Poster	Originally posted by Adam I would also recommend the KP...it has a specified shutter life and a shutter made of much more durable materials. That said, even with ES enabled, I believe the actual shutter mechanism will still see some wear. Thank you Adam and all. Yes, I am looking at the KP right now but it's just excruciating because my wife just bought me this K-70 only a month ago... trading in a birthday present for cash to buy a different camera... I don't mind that the mechanical shutter actuates, say, at the beginning and end of a round of continuous shooting, for example. If the mechanical shutter actuates as many shots as I take using the electronic shutter, that would be pointless. In short, if I can take multiple-exposures using a (the?) silent mode, that would be ideal.

10-03-2019, 04:05 AM	#7
Kozlok Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Albuquerque Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,148	I don’t think it’s the mirror likely wearing out but the actual shutter, but the KP shutter is more durable. How often do you plan on shooting thousands of shot stacks? You could just go for it with the K-70 and replace it when it breaks. You’ve already lost all the new depreciation; you won’t get nearly as much money for your used gear as you think you will. Also, I am curious to see the results. Last edited by Kozlok; 10-03-2019 at 04:16 AM.

10-03-2019, 11:16 PM	#8
PentaMiCL Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2019 Posts: 37 Original Poster	Originally posted by Adam In such a scenario you'd spare the mirror from going up and down, but the rear curtain of the mechanical shutter would still be used, I believe. I think you are describing the Electronic First Curtain Shutter feature that is used for reducing shake. From what I've read there seems to be a separate fully electronic mode that you can use to go beyond 1/6000s and also for shooting more quietly (you still hear the motor opening/closing the aperture after shots). That's the mode that I need since the electronic first curtain shutter will only halve my shutter count.

10-04-2019, 05:56 AM	#10
Kozlok Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Albuquerque Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,148	Oh, I like the long exposure look too. I just bought ND filters and do it in 1. Seems cheaper than wearing out the shutter.

10-08-2019, 02:38 PM - 2 Likes	#11
reduno Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central NY, USA Posts: 965	Originally posted by PentaMiCL I don't mind that the mechanical shutter actuates, say, at the beginning and end of a round of continuous shooting, for example. If the mechanical shutter actuates as many shots as I take using the electronic shutter, that would be pointless. In short, if I can take multiple-exposures using a (the?) silent mode, that would be ideal. I think the other big difference between the Kp and K-70 is the aperture mechanism. On the Kp this uses a separate stepper motor, so the aperture can step down for each shot, even if the mirror stays locked up. On the K-70, the same motor performs both functions, so the aperture cannot stop down without the mirror cycling. Theoretically, you could use the aperture stepped down with the mirror locked up to take a burst of shots. However, the view finder would be dimmer between shots as the aperture would never open back up. Consequently, I think this may be why Pentax doesn't offer the silent shutter on the K-70. Incidentally, I did try using pixel shift resolution on a K-3 II in live view, to see if the shutter would remain open. However, it did cycle the mechanical shutter before the sequence of shots (to clear the sensor), so no such luck.

10-09-2019, 12:25 AM	#12
PentaMiCL Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2019 Posts: 37 Original Poster	Originally posted by reduno I think the other big difference between the Kp and K-70 is the aperture mechanism. On the Kp this uses a separate stepper motor, so the aperture can step down for each shot, even if the mirror stays locked up. On the K-70, the same motor performs both functions, so the aperture cannot stop down without the mirror cycling. Theoretically, you could use the aperture stepped down with the mirror locked up to take a burst of shots. However, the view finder would be dimmer between shots as the aperture would never open back up. Consequently, I think this may be why Pentax doesn't offer the silent shutter on the K-70. Incidentally, I did try using pixel shift resolution on a K-3 II in live view, to see if the shutter would remain open. However, it did cycle the mechanical shutter before the sequence of shots (to clear the sensor), so no such luck. That makes a lot of sense. I was wondering why not only the shutter but also the mirror had to go through the full cycle when shooting in LV mode. I guess, like the pixel shift resolution, it would be possible for the camera to cycle the mirror and shutter once at the beginning of a multiple exposure, and then leave the mechanical shutter open until the end of the multiple exposure, but this seems too niche to be included in a firmware update... The KP is seeming more and more like a really good buy for me but just in case Pentax might come out with a newer model featuring an EVF, I think I'll stick with my K-70 for a few more months. I'm really liking using the multiple exposure (averaging) mode as a pseudo ND filter. Olympus and sigma have similar capabilities with their Live ND (5 stops) and ISO 6 (4 stops). Pentax -- without bragging about it -- effectively does 11 stops! The intervals between the shots can be a disadvantage for capturing controlled movement (like a vehicle passing by) but isn't really an issue with random movement like water. Plus, unlike real long exposures (I believe) the pictures are free of long exposure noise, which is also an advantage according to my needs. I also like how I can decide to end the multiple exposure any time and still have a properly exposed shot.