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01-16-2020, 09:09 AM   #1
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Has anyone experienced the shutter shake issue with the K-70?

I'm thinking about upgrading my K-S1 to a body that doesn't have the shutter shake issue. I love my little K-S1 to death, the small well made body is wonderful in so many ways, but the shutter shake issue with some lenses can get really annoying. I'm talking about the blurrying that happens between 1/80s to about 1/200s shutter speeds with most lenses, some more than others.

So I'm looking at K-3s and K-70s. Used K-3s seem slightly cheaper, and that reflects the fact that the K-70 has a better feature set and sensor, though the body is not as pro-oriented. But for my amateur uses, the K-70 would probably work well if there is no shutter shake issue with it I think shutter shake is basically nonexistent with the K-3 just like it was never an issue with my K20D or K10D.

My K-50 has it to a lesser extent than the K-S1, but it is still there. If the shutter shake of the K-70 is comparable to the K-50, meaning it's still noticeably there, then I think I'd go with the K-3 instead.

What do you K-70 owners say?

01-16-2020, 10:19 AM   #2
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I notice shutter shock in my K-70 when using the DA15, DA21, and DA 17-70 lenses, usually occurring with a shutter of 1/60s to 1/125.

I haven't tested extensively, but the shutter shock seems less prevalent when shooting with the OVF. It's still there sometimes, but not as consistently as when I shoot with Live View.

Interestingly, I have not noticed shutter shock when using my Tamron Adaptall-2 24-48mm 13A.

I don't think I've ever seen shutter-shock induced blurring at 35mm or longer focal lengths.
01-16-2020, 10:37 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
I notice shutter shock in my K-70 when using the DA15, DA21, and DA 17-70 lenses, usually occurring with a shutter of 1/60s to 1/125.

I haven't tested extensively, but the shutter shock seems less prevalent when shooting with the OVF. It's still there sometimes, but not as consistently as when I shoot with Live View.

Interestingly, I have not noticed shutter shock when using my Tamron Adaptall-2 24-48mm 13A.

I don't think I've ever seen shutter-shock induced blurring at 35mm or longer focal lengths.
I think it might have more to do with lens than focal length... I recently bought a DA 35 Limited and it seems pretty immune to the shutter shock on the K-S1... but the DA 35 2.4 has a lot of it. So does my Sigma 30 1.4 Art - I just did an informal test today because I wanted to compare the Limited with the Sigma based on how I shoot (so handheld) and had to basically throw my test away because the relevant Sigma shots had obvious shutter shake in most of the shots, while the DA 35 Limited was perfect in all shots. It was pretty bad on the Sigma, basically as bad as my DA 35 2.4 and worse than my DA 16-45 - I hadn't noticed it was that bad but I usually don't pixel peep unless I'm running a test like this.

So I think your experience shows what I was expecting, that the K-70 construction is probably similar internally to the K-50 and while probably better than the K-S1, the issue is still there. So right now I'm thinking K-3 ...
01-16-2020, 11:02 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
I think shutter shake is basically nonexistent with the K-3
That depends on who you ask. There was a flurry of claims of shutter shake on the K-3 a few months ago. It seems that shutter shake is pretty much a given for those who are looking for it with more reports coming from users of particular lenses (I will have to find the threads in regards to the lenses...the D FA 28-105 comes to mind*).

I am surprised you are evaluating hand-held. Are you turning SR off for your tests?


Steve

* Looked back and could not find.


Last edited by stevebrot; 01-16-2020 at 11:44 AM.
01-16-2020, 12:12 PM   #5
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I've had reproducable instances of shutter shake on my K-3, using certain zoom lenses at certain focal lengths. The only one I can recall clearly was my Sigma 18-300 at the wide end. Turning SR off improved the situation, if I remember correctly. I suspect it has occurred with more lenses than I realise, but in those other cases wasn't to the same extent. It certainly hasn't been a big problem, overall.

So far as I'm aware, any camera with a mechanical shutter is potentially susceptible. It seems to depend on combined mass of body and lens, and distribution therein, coupled with movement of the shutter for certain narrow speed ranges. One of my pending and long-since-forgotten projects was to try different holding techniques to see if I could overcome the issue... also, adding mass to the camera via the tripod socket, in case there was a resonance thing happening...
01-16-2020, 01:06 PM - 1 Like   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I've had reproducable instances of shutter shake on my K-3, using certain zoom lenses at certain focal lengths. The only one I can recall clearly was my Sigma 18-300 at the wide end. Turning SR off improved the situation, if I remember correctly. I suspect it has occurred with more lenses than I realise, but in those other cases wasn't to the same extent. It certainly hasn't been a big problem, overall.

So far as I'm aware, any camera with a mechanical shutter is potentially susceptible. It seems to depend on combined mass of body and lens, and distribution therein, coupled with movement of the shutter for certain narrow speed ranges. One of my pending and long-since-forgotten projects was to try different holding techniques to see if I could overcome the issue... also, adding mass to the camera via the tripod socket, in case there was a resonance thing happening...
Mike, that's made me think. I wonder if Joe McNally's contorted camera holding position (
) might influence an internal vibrations. He has a dominant left eye, whereas most camera users have a dominant right eye, so his technique doesn't work well for "normal" folk, but adapted, it is a useful technique anyway and with all that mass wrapping around the camera it might well change any shutter shock. I wonder ...?
01-16-2020, 01:15 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
That depends on who you ask. There was a flurry of claims of shutter shake on the K-3 a few months ago. It seems that shutter shake is pretty much a given for those who are looking for it with more reports coming from users of particular lenses (I will have to find the threads in regards to the lenses...the D FA 28-105 comes to mind*).

I am surprised you are evaluating hand-held. Are you turning SR off for your tests?


Steve

* Looked back and could not find.
FWIW shutter shock with the K-3 is referenced in this thread: Shutter shock with small primes - PentaxForums.com
01-16-2020, 01:46 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
FWIW shutter shock with the K-3 is referenced in this thread: Shutter shock with small primes - PentaxForums.com
Thanks! I was thinking specifically about some conversations back in October.* I was going to test it out with my K-3 at that time, but was sidelined by health issues. What I would really like to see is a demonstration of shutter shock using mirror lock-up and either a manual aperture lens or a modern lens set full open (no aperture actuation) and SR off. Such would isolate the issue to the shutter mechanism. The reason I say this is that example photos often show movement in directions other than that of the shutter travel (e.g. horizontal).

I might add that for those who only see it hand-held, testing using a remote in the hands of a willing assistant might also be helpful.


Steve

* IIRC...there might have been a video using heavy kit on a flimsy tripod as part of the original post.

01-16-2020, 03:34 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
That depends on who you ask. There was a flurry of claims of shutter shake on the K-3 a few months ago. It seems that shutter shake is pretty much a given for those who are looking for it with more reports coming from users of particular lenses (I will have to find the threads in regards to the lenses...the D FA 28-105 comes to mind*).
Ahh that is not good... I wonder if it's more or if it's less than with the K-70.

QuoteQuote:
I am surprised you are evaluating hand-held. Are you turning SR off for your tests?(
I wasn't doing any scientific test to post on the forums. it was only for my own benefit. I was going around the house and the backyard taking pictures of things to see how they looked like with each picture - things near and things distant, larger apertures and smaller apertures. It makes no sense for me to use a tripod and turn SR off because I never shoot that way.

QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I've had reproducable instances of shutter shake on my K-3, using certain zoom lenses at certain focal lengths.
Thanks for the feedback! Again, it's hard to tell what is the lenses and what is the camera sometimes....

QuoteQuote:
So far as I'm aware, any camera with a mechanical shutter is potentially susceptible. It seems to depend on combined mass of body and lens, and distribution therein, coupled with movement of the shutter for certain narrow speed ranges. One of my pending and long-since-forgotten projects was to try different holding techniques to see if I could overcome the issue... also, adding mass to the camera via the tripod socket, in case there was a resonance thing happening...
Yes, but with some cameras it definitely happens more than with others. I'm almost missing my K20D, it was completely immune to it... and its 14.6MP isn't that far off the K-50's 16MP, so it can't just be the resolution.
01-16-2020, 03:51 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
Yes, but with some cameras it definitely happens more than with others. I'm almost missing my K20D, it was completely immune to it... and its 14.6MP isn't that far off the K-50's 16MP, so it can't just be the resolution.
Hence my thought that adding mass - say, via the tripod socket - may alter any resonance in a specific body that might be contributing. I've mentioned before, I think, that I play guitar (or used to - not so much in the last few years), and it's not uncommon for some guitars to have a "dead spot"... a note that, when played, sounds flat or "dead" compared to others, with no colour and/or sustain. Adding mass can fix this, or - at the very least - move the frequency where the dead spot occurs... I have no evidence that this would work with a camera and shutter shock, but I think it's worth testing.

Last edited by BigMackCam; 01-16-2020 at 04:26 PM.
01-16-2020, 03:59 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
I wasn't doing any scientific test to post on the forums. it was only for my own benefit. I was going around the house and the backyard taking pictures of things to see how they looked like with each picture - things near and things distant, larger apertures and smaller apertures. It makes no sense for me to use a tripod and turn SR off because I never shoot that way.
I was thinking that turning SR off when shooting hand-held will allow differentiation of "shutter shock" (a form of camera motion) from an artifact of SR.


Steve
01-16-2020, 05:47 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
So far as I'm aware, any camera with a mechanical shutter is potentially susceptible.
Yep...it is difficult to imagine a camera so perfectly designed that all actions during the shutter sequence are fully balanced and symmetrical to the lens axis and film plane. I have been lucky, I guess, to have avoided problems with camera motion (user instigated and otherwise). Part of that is undoubtedly luck and the rest a lack of sensitivity to less-than-perfect results.


Steve
01-16-2020, 07:13 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Hence my thought that adding mass - say, via the tripod socket - may alter any resonance in a specific body that might be contributing. I've mentioned before, I think, that I play guitar (or used to - not so much in the last few years), and it's not uncommon for some guitars to have a "dead spot"... a note that, when played, sounds flat or "dead" compared to others, with no colour and/or sustain. Adding mass can fix this, or - at the very least - move the frequency where the dead spot occurs... I have no evidence that this would work with a camera and shutter shock, but I think it's worth testing.
No, you haven't told me you play guitar. So do I, and like you, not as much as I used to...
My guitars usually have large or pretty hefty necks, that improves sustain and I don't think I have any issues with dead notes because of that

Regarding mass - I was surprised that the DA 35 Limited seems to help the camera have no shutter shock, while the Sigma 30 1.4 Art, which is quite larger and heavier, does. The main thing that is different about the Limited lens is that it fits *very* tightly in the K-mount. Not sure if that has anything to do with this... another lens that doesn't seem to have any shutter shock is my K 55 f2 - and that one fits very tight in the camera mount as well. Probably coincidence... but still!

I think I'm leaning towards the K-3 now anyways - I miss having a pro style body (other than the K10D of course), and I think it has less shutter shock than the more entry level cameras, which is a bonus. Still, the screen and extra features of the K-70 have their appeal... I have time to think about these things, it will probably be a few weeks until I put my K-S1 in the market and pull the trigger on a new body. I have to sell some of my lenses first...
01-17-2020, 02:04 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
No, you haven't told me you play guitar. So do I, and like you, not as much as I used to...
My guitars usually have large or pretty hefty necks, that improves sustain and I don't think I have any issues with dead notes because of that

Regarding mass - I was surprised that the DA 35 Limited seems to help the camera have no shutter shock, while the Sigma 30 1.4 Art, which is quite larger and heavier, does. The main thing that is different about the Limited lens is that it fits *very* tightly in the K-mount. Not sure if that has anything to do with this... another lens that doesn't seem to have any shutter shock is my K 55 f2 - and that one fits very tight in the camera mount as well. Probably coincidence... but still!

I think I'm leaning towards the K-3 now anyways - I miss having a pro style body (other than the K10D of course), and I think it has less shutter shock than the more entry level cameras, which is a bonus. Still, the screen and extra features of the K-70 have their appeal... I have time to think about these things, it will probably be a few weeks until I put my K-S1 in the market and pull the trigger on a new body. I have to sell some of my lenses first...
Today I took my K-3 II + batt grip + DA21 and shot a couple dozen frames at 1/60s and 1/125s, using both OVF and Live View. A couple of the images shot at 1/60s were a tad soft, but the rest all were appropriately sharp. My K-01 + DA21 combo is almost guaranteed to have shutter-shock induced softness at 1/60 - 1/125s.
6 Days Ago   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Today I took my K-3 II + batt grip + DA21 and shot a couple dozen frames at 1/60s and 1/125s, using both OVF and Live View. A couple of the images shot at 1/60s were a tad soft, but the rest all were appropriately sharp. My K-01 + DA21 combo is almost guaranteed to have shutter-shock induced softness at 1/60 - 1/125s.
Thank you! I think that proves that the K-3/K-3II doesn't suffer much from shutter shake. If there were only a couple of pictures that were a tad soft, that probably means that it was due to other reasons.

Thank you very much for doing this test
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