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03-17-2008, 01:06 PM   #31
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did i mention that i think our dear Mr RiceHigh also seems to think that the article is simply stating if you pay more for a camera, it's better?


one of the main points of the article i agree with, is that gear matters, in that you must match the tool to the job. a 25fps SSM 10-1000mm f1.2 with a perfect ISO 12800 is not for portraits. and you can't shoot sports with a 50mp medium format view camera.. you must match the tool to the job.

03-17-2008, 01:12 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by OniFactor Quote
did i mention that i think our dear Mr RiceHigh also seems to think that the article is simply stating if you pay more for a camera, it's better?


one of the main points of the article i agree with, is that gear matters, in that you must match the tool to the job. a 25fps SSM 10-1000mm f1.2 with a perfect ISO 12800 is not for portraits. and you can't shoot sports with a 50mp medium format view camera.. you must match the tool to the job.
for now....
03-17-2008, 01:18 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
people with too much on their plate that cant afford expensive equipment want to feel satisfied that they can make due without it.

but, they dont stop at that, they want to beat the rich guys or those that think that a hobby should have no price limit into a pulp, they want to crush those of us that can afford the expensive toys, with claims that they suck as photographers and should bend down to the army of holga and pinhole camera swinging fanatics.....



people are bored, so they bitch, thats how forums go..
Quite untrue Gooshin - many amateurs/enthusiasts/hobbyists/whatevers wouldn't care to compare a pro's work with their own, but simply enjoy learning the art of photography with a tool that enables all the versatility at a fraction of the price paid by the pros.

And this forum adds to that learning.
03-17-2008, 01:23 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Quite untrue Gooshin - many amateurs/enthusiasts/hobbyists/whatevers wouldn't care to compare a pro's work with their own, but simply enjoy learning the art of photography with a tool that enables all the versatility at a fraction of the price paid by the pros.
i'm totaly for that!

just dont join into these discussions and everyone will be happy.

03-17-2008, 01:50 PM   #35
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Haha!
There's no argument there...
And here, comparing K100D with Hasselbad, another non-argument.
As said, though, the gap closes with the 'prosumer' level cams...
03-17-2008, 04:56 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
for now....
honestly, i'm not sold on that. sure, they're getting closer to making an end all be all camera... but, even though you're building a wall, a screwdriver can't do a hammer's job, and vice versa. there always will be a slight difference in tools that makes one more appealing to the creator than the other.
03-17-2008, 05:34 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by OniFactor Quote
honestly, i'm not sold on that. sure, they're getting closer to making an end all be all camera... but, even though you're building a wall, a screwdriver can't do a hammer's job, and vice versa. there always will be a slight difference in tools that makes one more appealing to the creator than the other.
if i would have told you 20 years ago that i can pack 500 gigabytes of memory storage into my backpocket you would have clowned on me endlessly and had an article published on me so that the entire engineering community would get to laugh at me...

while its not going to happen tommorow, dont be surprised if one day it does.

03-17-2008, 06:15 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by 35mmfilm_user Quote
Since Michael does not often post images, may I?

Need some 100% crops?? Not a problem to provide them...

The camera matters, so does the lens, the skill level/mastery of the photographer, etc.

Ultimately I've seen some VERY mediocre images from a $5000 Nikon D3. Why?
It's the skill level of the photographer. 'Nuff said...

Cheers,
Marc
Sounds like you're getting a little attitude there Marc. There is absolutely no need for it to be aimed towards me. Save yer "Nuff said...." for someone else.

I asked Ricehigh to post pictures because he started this thread, and he should be the one to defend his original post. He loves to come in here and whack a hornets nest and then run and hide.

Now I have no beef with you or anyone else. I am on the same page as you Marc. I wanted RH to come out from behind the bushes and show all of us the photographic evidence to back up his original statement. But of course he won't. He is simply a troll.
03-17-2008, 06:30 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by J.Scott Quote
Sounds like you're getting a little attitude there Marc. There is absolutely no need for it to be aimed towards me. Save yer "Nuff said...." for someone else.

I asked Ricehigh to post pictures because he started this thread, and he should be the one to defend his original post. He loves to come in here and whack a hornets nest and then run and hide.

Now I have no beef with you or anyone else. I am on the same page as you Marc. I wanted RH to come out from behind the bushes and show all of us the photographic evidence to back up his original statement. But of course he won't. He is simply a troll.
Unfortunately you mistook that my quoting you meant it was directed at you - absolutely not. Obviously I should have clarified this one even further - that it was directed at RH, not you... My apologies at the confusion.

That's why I even quoted his name, using your quote since it was so appropriate, nothing more. Again, everything was directed at him, not you. I hope you would think better of me, and that I generally don't get involved in these discussions, let alone comment. However, the trolling by RH is dragging out again, and I felt compelled to answer.

Best Regards,
Marc
03-17-2008, 07:21 PM   #40
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Proof? What "Proof"??

No problem, since you request:-



Well, made with an expensive DFA Macro on a maybe "cheapo" K100D! ;-)

QuoteOriginally posted by 35mmfilm_user Quote
Since Michael does not often post images, may I?

With the el cheapo ($325) 6MP DS:
http://www.marclangille.com/photos/207785541_tSFKv-L.jpg


With the K10D at $625 (almost as "cheap"):
http://www.marclangille.com/photos/207783743_PwLgi-L.jpg

Need some 100% crops?? Not a problem to provide them...

The camera matters, so does the lens, the skill level/mastery of the photographer, etc.

Ultimately I've seen some VERY mediocre images from a $5000 Nikon D3. Why?
It's the skill level of the photographer. 'Nuff said...

Cheers,
Marc
03-17-2008, 07:38 PM   #41
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wonderful!

QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
No problem, since you request:-



Well, made with an expensive DFA Macro on a maybe "cheapo" K100D! ;-)
Beautiful and thank you for posting this - much appreciated...

Curious: why don't you post photos more often, instead of the majority of posts about finding something wrong with a camera system? They all have faults, some quite serious (Canon Mark III AF issue as an example)... To me, that just means another system is more suited to you, and perhaps that's the better option instead of harping on problem which can often not apply to the majority of photographers here?

Regards,
Marc
03-18-2008, 06:36 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
No problem, since you request:-



Well, made with an expensive DFA Macro on a maybe "cheapo" K100D! ;-)
I agree with Marc, Rice. That is a beautiful shot.

And it proves that you can take an excellent photograph with a relatively cheep camera body

I'm another one that wouldn't mind seeing more of your pic's.
03-18-2008, 07:11 AM   #43
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Just to needlessly add on to this topic: isn't a lot of the gear / feature / measurement focus the inevitable result of the marketing machine? Marketing creates perceived need, features address said manufactured need, you sell equipment on features. Aside from the few emotionally directed campaigns, ie. save a record of the good times, document the kids while they are still young, get the opportunity to photograph near nude hot chicks... it's all about the doohickies and thingamajobs, the noise level at ASA1600, and so on.

Well known is that in the face of manufactured need the consumer experiences anxiety. In the face of multiple competing opinion and feature lists, the consumer's anxiety turns to obsession. And obsession breeds further sales.

I understand all of this through observation of myself. Step by step I'll convince myself that this or that additional feature or performance point is worth the extra $.... then the same for the next, and for the next... until I realize I've up-marketed myself beyond what I was willing to spend, for features that I'll use rarely.

This is different than the case where my interests and needs guide me to the important qualities for the type of photography I'm eager to do better.
03-18-2008, 08:16 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by little laker Quote
I agree with Marc, Rice. That is a beautiful shot.

And it proves that you can take an excellent photograph with a relatively cheep camera body

I'm another one that wouldn't mind seeing more of your pic's.
Thank you both for the kind comments.

To respond to your suggestion/query, I normally do not post my pics owing to a few good reasons. First is that I found that most of my pics are mediocre ones and not worth posting (frankly), second is I did/do portraits for girls and children mostly but most of which are done privately (not for earning any money) and I could not post these unless I obtained consent from these people (which is then not practical for most cases). Thirdly, I actually do not have more time to organise and post on web my mediocre photos as I am too busy (note that I am not *always* posting here too, but just sometimes) and so on.

Back to the topic and regarding my this example, I do hope that my K100D could have a better AWB and faster AF so that I could do these automatically with the assistance of my *tool*. In fact, when I did all the things manually, I have the full control, but Auto things sometimes maybe better and could save a lot of time at the field and thus could get more (photo) chances.
03-18-2008, 09:17 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
if i would have told you 20 years ago that i can pack 500 gigabytes of memory storage into my backpocket you would have clowned on me endlessly and had an article published on me so that the entire engineering community would get to laugh at me...

while its not going to happen tommorow, dont be surprised if one day it does.
i won't disagree, but that's besides the point. now, if you told me that someday, i'd have a toaster with 500gb of storage that i could fit in my back pocket, that i may have to post on a tech forum to have a good laugh at. why? because it's mixing things. there are different arts to high fashion portraiture and sports photography. sure, maybe someday WAY down the line, hasselblad will put out a MF camera that's capable of sports photography.. but will it be worth it? and the same goes for a Canon EOS camera that's suitable for a hasselblad's use, but i don't think a 35mm FF camera will have the same feel as a MF camera. which is why i still say you must match the camera to the job.
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