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11-22-2017, 05:50 PM - 1 Like   #1
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AV Bracketed Shooting Mode for the K-1

The KP has a nice additional shooting mode, bracketed Av mode, whereby the user can alter the 'steps' of DoF between the bracketed shots, handy. I would like to see this mode ported across to the K-1.

Cheers,

Bruce

11-22-2017, 06:29 PM   #2
Tas
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Got any examples of a final image to show us why you'd recommend it?
11-22-2017, 06:47 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tas Quote
Got any examples of a final image to show us why you'd recommend it?
Nothing at the moment, next flower macro opportunity I get I'll give it a bash for sure. Basically it's not doing anything that you couldn't do manually, its not beyond the capabilities of other cameras either, it's just a neat shortcut.

But here's where I see it being useful;

If you are shooting a flower with a tripod, then perhaps it's not needed, you can push the aperture narrow enough, keep ISO under control and rely on a slow shutter speed for the shot. Fair enough, it's perhaps not warranted... but perhaps you forgot your tripod, you can't shoot under a certain shutter speed but now want a greater overall DoF to your shot, and rather take one shot, adjust aperture, take another and another, it fires them all off quickly adjusting the DoF each shot to what you want, increasing only ISO (if you specify Auto ISO), or adjusts shutter speed if choosing a fixed ISO. Then you can take the bursted set of shots to PP and now hopefully getting something akin to what you might have managed with a single shot tripodded (in theory anyway!).

There's been a couple of times I've been out on the field in this kinda scenario thinking something like this might be handy, and now its been provided. Of course in practice the results might be abysmal, but I definitely intend to give it a whirl, with also of course perhaps a single shot to compare with. Keep an eye on the macro flower thematic thread here or the (if worthy) best KP shots.
11-22-2017, 07:54 PM - 1 Like   #4
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Ok, just popped out into the garden to quickly give it a whirl, there was a slight wind and I was handheld but I did a little amateur post processing of this shot. This is a stacked shot using the bokeh of the 1.8 frame with the flower of the 5.6 frame (kept the flower in 5.6 and used the 1.8 for bokeh/background).

Admittedly it's not very good, it was very rushed (PP wise) but you could use a timer and tripod with this style of photography/mode, with still objects and scenes it could make for some interesting 'punchyness' (but I totally overdid it here and gave a bad example lol).

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11-23-2017, 01:39 PM   #5
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I bet I can take three pictures at f2.0/f2.8/f4.0 using either Av mode or M mode and adjusting ISO (to keep the shutter speed up) just as quick as you can delve into the menu to select the DOF mode !

Camera are complicated enough without offering modes that people can achieve equally well just by understanding how things like exposure and DOF work.
11-23-2017, 01:45 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
I bet I can take three pictures at f2.0/f2.8/f4.0 using either Av mode or M mode and adjusting ISO (to keep the shutter speed up) just as quick as you can delve into the menu to select the DOF mode !

Camera are complicated enough without offering modes that people can achieve equally well just by understanding how things like exposure and DOF work.
It's a bracketed shot tho, it means when it comes to merging it will be easier than doing things manually. If you set this up as a profile (like it is by default) then there is nothing slow about it. Changing the aperture between each shot manually via the dial when doing something like a macro shot will definitely involve more hand movement than a burst bracketed shot therefore when it comes to post processing your shots vs this mode it won't come out as good.

I don't understand the hate, I've always erred on the side of wanting more from a device (any device) rather than having less. It means it's there if you want it, don't use it if you don't need it :|
11-23-2017, 01:59 PM   #7
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No hate Bruce. If you want to merge shots you must be on a tripod where speed is not an issue.
11-23-2017, 02:14 PM - 1 Like   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
No hate Bruce. If you want to merge shots you must be on a tripod where speed is not an issue.
It does also give you the same mode with a timer for those with a tripod. It's just a handy shortcut for those wanting bracketed shots with varying degrees of DoF instead of the typical bracketed with varying exposures. What's not to like?

Like i said, I recall seeing my K-1 do bracked shots with varying different exposures and it was changing the aperture (which wasn't what I wanted), I had to change some settings for how Manual mode behaved with bracketing and then I was able to get the bracketing shots to keep a consistent aperture but vary the exposure (via shutter speed).

Here we get bracketed shots, same exposure just varying DoF, I think that's actually something worth having and exploring, Pentaxians love shortcuts, it's one of the reasons we love the brand so much!

It's also handy because if you're not sure which DoF single shot you actually want, then using this feature gives you 3 (perhaps there is a way to get a 5 bracketed shot out of this feature, I'm not sure) to take home, pick one of the 3 you'd like to keep. It's also very easy to take a second shot this time with different step values to once again produce more shots with varying DoF. It is a shortcut for sure and speeds up the process.

I stand by my initial statement, this I would love to see ported to the K-1, and it doesn't look like the K-1 would struggle at all in getting this mode.

11-23-2017, 03:57 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
I recall seeing my K-1 do bracked shots with varying different exposures and it was changing the aperture (which wasn't what I wanted)
Ta for posting the example, this is something that could be replicated in post using a blur filter but having the two exposures to get the detail over a deeper DoF and the smoother bokeh of a wider aperture might give you more options to work with. There's a dreamy look to the image you posted though as Peter points out a tripod will help manage combining the two images better. Having said that this feature may enable a style similar to the Brenizer method: Advanced Photography Technique: Brenizer Method Panorama and the bloke it's named after didn't use a tripod. That technique can create some wonderful images though as it's a panorama technique it's more work than combining two images with different DoF.

FYI, if you want to bracket with the same aperture do bracketing in the Av mode. This is the only mode I use for bracketing to ensure only the shutter speed changes.

Would I want the proposed feature added to the K-1? Well I really can't see me using it much if at all, as there's already so many features that I rarely touch and some I've not gotten to yet. Of course, if they did add it I'd be happy to give it a whirl; after all if it's there you should see what it can create.

If a feature like this is something you could see using then sure, maybe it's something to be added to a firmware update. For me the K-1 has shortfalls that need hardware fixes like the small buffer and the AF system (making it comparable to other systems). But I think too that as it's a model that's a year and a half old now and that the next APSC/MF/FF models and lenses should be the focus for resources, if I don't get any more cool features added to my K-1 I can live with that.

Tas
2 Days Ago   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tas Quote
Got any examples of a final image to show us why you'd recommend it?
QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
I bet I can take three pictures at f2.0/f2.8/f4.0 using either Av mode or M mode and adjusting ISO (to keep the shutter speed up) just as quick as you can delve into the menu to select the DOF mode !

Camera are complicated enough without offering modes that people can achieve equally well just by understanding how things like exposure and DOF work.
Stumbling upon this myself recently, reminded me of this thread so posting back here.

I believe what Pentax is having a stab at is offering 'Focus stacking' or 'Focus bracketing', this article explains it much better and gives examples; Utilising the OM-D E-M1 Ver. 4.0's Focus Stacking and Focus Bracketing Modes in Insect Photography, with Professional Photographer Kazuo Unno

I'm not sure how useful this KP mode is, it can only do 3 with one shutter shot, but I guess you can alter the values and shoot again, but really you'd want that kinda control of setting new set points or aperture off camera, so perhaps a wired remote? You might be able to get those 40-100 shots quicker with this mode which is what I think this is all about, speed, especially when snapping certain insects that won't stay still for long.

Hmm... now i have to look into wired remote options for this nifty feature
2 Days Ago - 1 Like   #11
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I can see how that Focus Bracketing mode would be extremely useful to a macro photographer or even some landscapes. But the mode as you explained in the KP is not bracketing the focus, but only the DOF by using aperture adjustment. If maximum DOF is required such as in macro work only one of your bracketed shots with the KP is going to give you that, the smallest aperture one. Stacking the three exposures in PP is not going to add anything.

I guess the KP mode could have a use if you were handholding and trying to take a picture of a live subject, wanting maximum DOF but concerned about camera shake with a slow shutter speed. You could then use the DOF bracket mode, and if the maximum DOF shot was unuasable due to camera shake the others may be ok.
2 Days Ago   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
I can see how that Focus Bracketing mode would be extremely useful to a macro photographer or even some landscapes. But the mode as you explained in the KP is not bracketing the focus, but only the DOF by using aperture adjustment. If maximum DOF is required such as in macro work only one of your bracketed shots with the KP is going to give you that, the smallest aperture one. Stacking the three exposures in PP is not going to add anything.

I guess the KP mode could have a use if you were handholding and trying to take a picture of a live subject, wanting maximum DOF but concerned about camera shake with a slow shutter speed. You could then use the DOF bracket mode, and if the maximum DOF shot was unuasable due to camera shake the others may be ok.
Yeh agreed. When you get the KP, User Mode 3 is already set up as 'Macro' mode and has the Av Bracketing shooting mode selected, so I'm taking this as Pentax's amateur go at something kinda related to this. Now if it actually gave higher customization, specify more shots taken etc, then it might prove to be more useful, as is it's a little limiting. Especially considering that its restricted to Av mode only.
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It's not at all focus bracketing or stacking, which I hope will turn up in the next round of Pentax cameras.

I see this AV/TV Bracketing as useful for when you're not sure which aperture (or shutter speed) will give you the look you're after, and it lets you rattle off a few shots quickly. It could also be a valuable learning tool.

In any case, it's under the 'pretty innocuous feature that can be ignored if I don't care for it', so it would be dandy if they added it to older cameras. I wouldn't hold my breath though, just be happy if they continue to include it and expand on it in the future.

QuoteOriginally posted by Tas Quote
FYI, if you want to bracket with the same aperture do bracketing in the Av mode. This is the only mode I use for bracketing to ensure only the shutter speed changes.
An aside, but under the menu settings on some models you can set the green button to "Tv Shift" in Manual mode and then bracketing will keep the aperture constant in Manual (probably other modes as well).
1 Day Ago   #14
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aperture bracketing won't be easy to pull off, but looks like fun to play with. the object in focus can take up less pixels at small aperture than it does at large aperture... so when the images are combined, you get an unconvincing oof area on the edges of the object in focus... if that makes any sense.
1 Day Ago - 1 Like   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
It's not at all focus bracketing or stacking, which I hope will turn up in the next round of Pentax cameras.

I see this AV/TV Bracketing as useful for when you're not sure which aperture (or shutter speed) will give you the look you're after, and it lets you rattle off a few shots quickly. It could also be a valuable learning tool.

In any case, it's under the 'pretty innocuous feature that can be ignored if I don't care for it', so it would be dandy if they added it to older cameras. I wouldn't hold my breath though, just be happy if they continue to include it and expand on it in the future.



An aside, but under the menu settings on some models you can set the green button to "Tv Shift" in Manual mode and then bracketing will keep the aperture constant in Manual (probably other modes as well).
I did my first wedding yesterday and used the KP with the FA50mm 1.4 attached and used the Av Bracketing mode, for that exact purpose of 'if I screw up the f1.6 shot, then I get a f2.8 and f.3.5 to work with which should be 'safer' shots if I missed my mark etc. It does seem to be useful.

I do recall the aperture changing during bracketing on the K-1 once, I actually must find that setting again, the only issue is it changed exposure as well (because it was bracketing), but I might be able to recreate the effect if I lower or make the exposure increments as small as possible (and RAW of course), it's likely I can salvage any results.

QuoteOriginally posted by sculptor666 Quote
aperture bracketing won't be easy to pull off, but looks like fun to play with. the object in focus can take up less pixels at small aperture than it does at large aperture... so when the images are combined, you get an unconvincing oof area on the edges of the object in focus... if that makes any sense.
Yeh, I aim to take some AV. Bracketing shots with the intention of doing proper blends or stacks tripodded at somepoint in the future. I would really like to see both these modes ported to the K-1, seems plausible.
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