In lens shake reduction

Wheatfield · 04-30-2019, 09:39 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by clackers

You're potentially paying for it twice, though, Luftfluss - glad money is no concern for you!

You have the choice if not buying it. I kind of like the idea of having a stable viewfinder for long lenses. And it’s not like as if they aren’t already making stabilized lenses. They know how to do it.

**clackers** · 04-30-2019, 09:40 PM

Originally posted by luftfluss

The cost of ILIS development and manufacturing would be amortized over the course of much equipment, and we're talking about in-lens stabilization for longer, more expensive lenses, so the additional cost would be a small percentage of the overall cost of the lens.

Well, you've admitted it costs more, Luftfluss, but contradicted yourself when you said that would be amortized - which means spread over a large number of items, when you say it would be for only a small number of 'longer, more expensive lenses'.

It also puts constraints on the lens designers. There's now a group of elements that has to be moved by a gyroscope.

Originally posted by luftfluss

Olympus touts their hybrid sensor-lens image stabilization, as they make lenses with stabilization... so no, they don't "do it all in the camera".

Well, that's wrong. The newest Olympuses do it all in camera, they're not hybrids. That's why you can even use adapted Leica or whatever lenses on them and get the advantages, just like Pentax.

**clackers** · 04-30-2019, 09:50 PM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

You have the choice if not buying it. I kind of like the idea of having a stable viewfinder for long lenses.

As said before, I already have it in my Bigmos … and, 'meh', it's overrated!

Originally posted by Wheatfield

And it’s not like as if they aren’t already making stabilized lenses. They know how to do it.

Sure, they're already in a couple of very expensive 645 lenses, but that's a system without IBIS.

pentax360 · 05-01-2019, 08:44 PM - **1 Like**

Forget that I think the next Pentax flagship should have an aerospace grade gyroscope.

**luftfluss** · 05-02-2019, 08:12 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by clackers

Well, that's wrong. The newest Olympuses do it all in camera, they're not hybrids. That's why you can even use adapted Leica or whatever lenses on them and get the advantages, just like Pentax.

Can't believe I'm responding, but...

What do you think the "IS" in "M.Zuiko ED 300mm f4.0 IS PRO" indicates?

Wheatfield · 05-02-2019, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by clackers

As said before, I already have it in my Bigmos … and, 'meh', it's overrated!

I found the Bigma to be over rated.
One can say that about any feature. I believe we used to say that about useful autofocus because it wasn’t something we had. Shake reduction of any form can be said to be over rated if one shoots off a tripod all the time.
I have, on occasion, used a friend’s Nikon with a VR 70-200/ 2.8. The steady viewfinder was quite nice.

Quote:

Sure, they're already in a couple of very expensive 645 lenses, but that's a system without IBIS.

There is no reason for the binary either/or thinking in this case.

**clackers** · 05-02-2019, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by luftfluss

Can't believe I'm responding, but...

What do you think the "IS" in "M.Zuiko ED 300mm f4.0 IS PRO" indicates?

That $2400 lens will work very well with Olympus and Panasonic bodies that don't have IBIS. Remember, with Pentax, even the entry levels have it, this is not true of other brands.

But since 2012, there have been Olympus models that offer in themselves five way IBIS.

You can see for yourself Olympus' comparison of IBIS vs ILIS … Olympus - Olympus Australia

Fcsnt54 · 05-02-2019, 07:46 PM

Originally posted by clackers

That $2400 lens will work very well with Olympus and Panasonic bodies that don't have IBIS. Remember, with Pentax, even the entry levels have it, this is not true of other brands.

But since 2012, there have been Olympus models that offer in themselves five way IBIS.

You can see for yourself Olympus' comparison of IBIS vs ILIS … Olympus - Olympus Australia

I might be slightly confused? If you go to the lens page with the 300mm, Olympus mentions how their lenses with IS work in conjunction with their 5 axis IBIS. it is not a one or other, although you can select which one you want to use. It is only with select bodies, but it does work well.

**clackers** · 05-02-2019, 09:08 PM

Originally posted by Fcsnt54

I might be slightly confused?

Possibly. Have a look at the table 'Advantages of the in-body image stabilisation' in the Olympus page.

That particular lens' ILIS will work in conjunction with IBIS, but the table shows clearly having the stabilization in the body's better, especially with other lenses.

Where it *would* make beautiful sense is for video, until Pentax find a way to go back to mechanical rather than electronic IS.

Fcsnt54 · 05-03-2019, 05:57 AM

Originally posted by clackers

Possibly. Have a look at the table 'Advantages of the in-body image stabilisation' in the Olympus page.

That particular lens' ILIS will work in conjunction with IBIS, but the table shows clearly having the stabilization in the body's better, especially with other lenses.

Where it *would* make beautiful sense is for video, until Pentax find a way to go back to mechanical rather than electronic IS.

Oh, ok... That makes more sense. Yeah I don't know how often they update the information as they don't make mention of the newer bodies from the past couple years. So I can see how they just mention how ibis is still the way to go.

I was thinking of another point as you mention video. If Pentax would develop a CO system where the cameras can utilize both at the same time, would it be worth it outside of just looking at the back screen for video? Reason I ask is if one was to do a long exposures without a tripod it would be difficult to keep the camera steady while looking at a blacked out viewfinder. There would be nothing to be able to keep the framing for reference. I can see it if it was one or the other as far as long lenses, but in general it might be a waste in that regard.

MetalUndivided · 05-04-2019, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by clackers

Possibly. Have a look at the table 'Advantages of the in-body image stabilisation' in the Olympus page.

That particular lens' ILIS will work in conjunction with IBIS, but the table shows clearly having the stabilization in the body's better, especially with other lenses.

Where it *would* make beautiful sense is for video, until Pentax find a way to go back to mechanical rather than electronic IS.

Originally posted by clackers

Possibly. Have a look at the table 'Advantages of the in-body image stabilisation' in the Olympus page.

It's too bad one of the fundamental advantages - that being a stabilized viewfinder doesn't work with an SLR system, which Olympus isn't. Which is exactly the point - if you're shooting in a sub 100mm range all the time, yeah, IBIS is better by a long shot. Once you get into 300+ area that jittery viewfinder gets old pretty quickly, so having even a rudimentary in-lens stabilization simply for the viewfinder would make the experience far more enjoyable.

04-30-2019, 09:40 PM	#17
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by luftfluss The cost of ILIS development and manufacturing would be amortized over the course of much equipment, and we're talking about in-lens stabilization for longer, more expensive lenses, so the additional cost would be a small percentage of the overall cost of the lens. Well, you've admitted it costs more, Luftfluss, but contradicted yourself when you said that would be amortized - which means spread over a large number of items, when you say it would be for only a small number of 'longer, more expensive lenses'. It also puts constraints on the lens designers. There's now a group of elements that has to be moved by a gyroscope. Originally posted by luftfluss Olympus touts their hybrid sensor-lens image stabilization, as they make lenses with stabilization... so no, they don't "do it all in the camera". Well, that's wrong. The newest Olympuses do it all in camera, they're not hybrids. That's why you can even use adapted Leica or whatever lenses on them and get the advantages, just like Pentax. Last edited by clackers; 04-30-2019 at 10:47 PM.

05-02-2019, 08:12 AM - 1 Like	#20
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,619	Originally posted by clackers Well, that's wrong. The newest Olympuses do it all in camera, they're not hybrids. That's why you can even use adapted Leica or whatever lenses on them and get the advantages, just like Pentax. Can't believe I'm responding, but... What do you think the "IS" in "M.Zuiko ED 300mm f4.0 IS PRO" indicates? Attached Images

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04-30-2019, 09:39 PM - 1 Like	#16
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by clackers You're potentially paying for it twice, though, Luftfluss - glad money is no concern for you! You have the choice if not buying it. I kind of like the idea of having a stable viewfinder for long lenses. And it’s not like as if they aren’t already making stabilized lenses. They know how to do it.

04-30-2019, 09:50 PM	#18
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by Wheatfield You have the choice if not buying it. I kind of like the idea of having a stable viewfinder for long lenses. As said before, I already have it in my Bigmos … and, 'meh', it's overrated! Originally posted by Wheatfield And it’s not like as if they aren’t already making stabilized lenses. They know how to do it. Sure, they're already in a couple of very expensive 645 lenses, but that's a system without IBIS.

05-01-2019, 08:44 PM - 1 Like	#19
pentax360 Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: OR Posts: 436	Forget that I think the next Pentax flagship should have an aerospace grade gyroscope.

05-02-2019, 10:49 AM	#21
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by clackers As said before, I already have it in my Bigmos … and, 'meh', it's overrated! I found the Bigma to be over rated. One can say that about any feature. I believe we used to say that about useful autofocus because it wasn’t something we had. Shake reduction of any form can be said to be over rated if one shoots off a tripod all the time. I have, on occasion, used a friend’s Nikon with a VR 70-200/ 2.8. The steady viewfinder was quite nice. Quote: Sure, they're already in a couple of very expensive 645 lenses, but that's a system without IBIS. There is no reason for the binary either/or thinking in this case.

05-02-2019, 05:21 PM	#22
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by luftfluss Can't believe I'm responding, but... What do you think the "IS" in "M.Zuiko ED 300mm f4.0 IS PRO" indicates? That *$2400* lens will work very well with Olympus and Panasonic bodies that don't have IBIS. Remember, with Pentax, even the entry levels have it, this is not true of other brands. But since 2012, there have been Olympus models that offer in themselves five way IBIS. You can see for yourself Olympus' comparison of IBIS vs ILIS … Olympus - Olympus Australia

05-02-2019, 07:46 PM	#23
Fcsnt54 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: California Posts: 621	Originally posted by clackers That *$2400* lens will work very well with Olympus and Panasonic bodies that don't have IBIS. Remember, with Pentax, even the entry levels have it, this is not true of other brands. But since 2012, there have been Olympus models that offer in themselves five way IBIS. You can see for yourself Olympus' comparison of IBIS vs ILIS … Olympus - Olympus Australia I might be slightly confused? If you go to the lens page with the 300mm, Olympus mentions how their lenses with IS work in conjunction with their 5 axis IBIS. it is not a one or other, although you can select which one you want to use. It is only with select bodies, but it does work well.

05-02-2019, 09:08 PM	#24
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by Fcsnt54 I might be slightly confused? Possibly. Have a look at the table 'Advantages of the in-body image stabilisation' in the Olympus page. That particular lens' ILIS will work in conjunction with IBIS, but the table shows clearly having the stabilization in the body's better, especially with other lenses. Where it would make beautiful sense is for video, until Pentax find a way to go back to mechanical rather than electronic IS.

05-03-2019, 05:57 AM	#25
Fcsnt54 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: California Posts: 621	Originally posted by clackers Possibly. Have a look at the table 'Advantages of the in-body image stabilisation' in the Olympus page. That particular lens' ILIS will work in conjunction with IBIS, but the table shows clearly having the stabilization in the body's better, especially with other lenses. Where it would make beautiful sense is for video, until Pentax find a way to go back to mechanical rather than electronic IS. Oh, ok... That makes more sense. Yeah I don't know how often they update the information as they don't make mention of the newer bodies from the past couple years. So I can see how they just mention how ibis is still the way to go. I was thinking of another point as you mention video. If Pentax would develop a CO system where the cameras can utilize both at the same time, would it be worth it outside of just looking at the back screen for video? Reason I ask is if one was to do a long exposures without a tripod it would be difficult to keep the camera steady while looking at a blacked out viewfinder. There would be nothing to be able to keep the framing for reference. I can see it if it was one or the other as far as long lenses, but in general it might be a waste in that regard.

05-04-2019, 09:06 AM	#26
MetalUndivided Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Irkutsk, Russia Posts: 134	Originally posted by clackers Possibly. Have a look at the table 'Advantages of the in-body image stabilisation' in the Olympus page. That particular lens' ILIS will work in conjunction with IBIS, but the table shows clearly having the stabilization in the body's better, especially with other lenses. Where it would make beautiful sense is for video, until Pentax find a way to go back to mechanical rather than electronic IS. Originally posted by clackers Possibly. Have a look at the table 'Advantages of the in-body image stabilisation' in the Olympus page. It's too bad one of the fundamental advantages - that being a stabilized viewfinder doesn't work with an SLR system, which Olympus isn't. Which is exactly the point - if you're shooting in a sub 100mm range all the time, yeah, IBIS is better by a long shot. Once you get into 300+ area that jittery viewfinder gets old pretty quickly, so having even a rudimentary in-lens stabilization simply for the viewfinder would make the experience far more enjoyable.