[-JW-]

There have been a lot of people wishing for Ricoh/Pentax to upgrade the FA-limiteds to include silent AF and quickshift.
I'm wondering if anyone knows what the impact on size and weight would be?

Judging from the recently upgraded FA35/2.0, which only has an improved coating, realizing such an upgrade is probably harder to realize than we think.
Though looking at e.g. the FA 200 --> DA 200 it should be possible (or is this a completely different lens?)

[RGlasel]

what the impact on size and weight would be?

Judging from the recently upgraded FA35/2.0, which only has an improved coating, realizing such an upgrade is probably harder to realize than we think.

I really don't think these two points are connected. The DA 20-40 Ltd has both DC AF and QuickShift in a small, lightweight package. If you don't need to include f1.4, edge to edge sharpness and correct for field curvature, you no longer need to design lenses with the physical dimensions of a D FA * 50. Replacing SMC coatings with HD coatings is probably just a matter of using up existing inventory of glass components for a particular lens (and not leaving a large inventory of unsold SMC coated lenses in the supply chain), so the entire line of DA Limiteds were upgraded to HD coatings at once. Making changes to the barrel and focusing ring of the FA 35 didn't affect any of the other components of that lens (and had minimal impact on the performance of that lens), so there must have been a reason to produce new equipment to make those components, which didn't require much investment in designing and implementing. Any impact on sales could only have been positive.


It was probably much easier for management at Ricoh Imaging to justify upgrading the FA 35 then to justify producing a brand new D FA * 50. I am convinced that new product development of Pentax lenses is not being held back for technical reasons.

[-JW-]

I really don't think these two points are connected. The DA 20-40 Ltd has both DC AF and QuickShift in a small, lightweight package. If you don't need to include f1.4, edge to edge sharpness and correct for field curvature, you no longer need to design lenses with the physical dimensions of a D FA * 50. Replacing SMC coatings with HD coatings is probably just a matter of using up existing inventory of glass components for a particular lens (and not leaving a large inventory of unsold SMC coated lenses in the supply chain), so the entire line of DA Limiteds were upgraded to HD coatings at once. Making changes to the barrel and focusing ring of the FA 35 didn't affect any of the other components of that lens (and had minimal impact on the performance of that lens), so there must have been a reason to produce new equipment to make those components, which didn't require much investment in designing and implementing. Any impact on sales could only have been positive.


It was probably much easier for management at Ricoh Imaging to justify upgrading the FA 35 then to justify producing a brand new D FA * 50. I am convinced that new product development of Pentax lenses is not being held back for technical reasons.

You have a point there.

Perhaps the real problem is that people are expecting edge to edge sharpness and correction for field curvature.
Thus upgrading the FA limiteds would result in people not being satisfied with their performance.
In their current state they are considered older lenses, so buyers accept their flaws.

[Ben-G]

I've acquired, sincerely, a pentax K-1 only for this reason :

the FA limiteds !!!

I love their rendition properly such as is it ... i think and hope that their leggendary status never will be touched ...

https://www.yatesweb.com/sharpness-is-a-bourgeois-concept/

best regards,

Ben

---

Last edited by Ben-G; 02-27-2020 at 08:56 AM.

[monochrome]

Why is it so damned necessary to add an internal focusing motor and QS to essentially perfect lenses?

IMO Ricoh might develop new replacement lenses for the Three Princesses but they won’t update them even to HD, much less upgrade them. They are iconic lenses. Plus, they can keep making and selling them just as they are with zero investment, so the return per lens is higher unchanged than if they change them.

[Rondec]

Why is it so damned necessary to add an internal focusing motor and QS to essentially perfect lenses?

IMO Ricoh might develop new replacement lenses for the Three Princesses but they won’t update them even to HD, much less upgrade them. They are iconic lenses. Plus, they can keep making and selling them just as they are with zero investment, so the return per lens is higher unchanged than if they change them.

I think the main thing is to improve auto focus accuracy and obviously to reduce focus sound. Screw driven lenses can be plenty fast, but they also have a greater tendency, in my humble experience, to miss their focus. I have been told that it is because their is more slop in the system and so the camera just misses the point it is shooting for by a little bit. Not a big deal if you are stopped down.

I agree with you that these are no priority compared to some of the other lenses (DFA *85, 70-300 variable aperture zoom, wide angle prime, maybe a 28-70 f4 lens), but assuming those all get filled in, I could see tweaking the FA limited's design some and adding an in lens motor among other things.

You may be right and the FA limiteds are selling at a decent clip, but assuming they sell down the last production run, it seems as though tweaking them a bit would be a way to stimulate more sales of them. My perception is that plenty of folks buy these lenses, but most seem to get used copies, which does little for Ricoh's bottom line.

[aslyfox]

Once you do the proposed changes you change the lenses

They will no longer be the " three princesses " IMHO

I picked up film SLR cameras so I could see what they can do as designed

I have the 43mm and 77mm

---

Last edited by aslyfox; 02-27-2020 at 02:54 PM.

[Ben-G]

Here in Europe used copies of Fa Limiteds are very scarce in respect of other focal lenses similar brands... i think that an addiction of a in lens motor in "Three princess" is an astounding heresy.

I have new and expensive Fa Limiteds: 31 43 & 77
"Screwdrive forever"😉

[Rondec]

What was the last screwdriven lens that Pentax released?

(I can foresee the time when only top end bodies will continue to have screw drive motors).

[Ben-G]

FA Limiteds are only for top end bodies, from Lx to K-1...

[The limitations to faster focusing are mainly in the camera, not in the lens focusing mechanism]

I don't thing that there have been a lot of people wishing for Ricoh/Pentax to upgrade the FA-limiteds to include silent AF and quickshift.
For true pentaxians it's impossible!!!😊

[RobA_Oz]

There are things that could be done to improve the FA Limiteds, that would have no impact on their image rendering, which is the logical concern for all who prize them. A knee-jerk “Why?” isn’t an argument, although it is a threshold question for any discussion of change.

First of all, it’s probably inevitable that the coatings will change, as other new SMC lens production winds down, and that’s no bad thing. Unless you want to fret about a few micrograms, there’s no weight disadvantage, and the cost impact is probably negligible by now, given the investment in the newer coatings has likely been written down.

Next, adding some degree of weather-resistance would be handy for those who like Limiteds you can use in adverse weather conditions. That would obviously add cost and would possibly change the body shape, to accommodate the seals and their retainers. It would also add some resistance to focus movement, and slow focussing, but speed isn’t a high priority for most users of Limiteds, I would guess.

Of course, if you’re going to change the body shape, the inevitable next question would be about adding in-lens AF and an electronic aperture control, which is where the cost and weight penalties would grow significantly. It is, however, possible to avoid those and opt for the less-impactful coatings and weather-resistance, whilst retaining most of the aesthetic and tactile attractions of the FA Limiteds.

[RGlasel]

What was the last screwdriven lens that Pentax released?

HD DA 55-300mm F4-5.8 ED WR. I don't mind the screw drive in the DA 15 and 70 Ltd's, but in the 55-300 and the 18-55 kit lens that I have, it is a big negative.

[aslyfox]

FA Limiteds are only for top end bodies, from Lx to K-1...

why

and what SLR bodies do you consider in that group

how about the Z 1

With the Z-1/PZ-1 Pentax introduced power zoom and MTF exposure program. Pentax launched the 'FA' series of lenses with this new camera.
Program modes: Normal, Action, Depth of Field, MTF.Built-in interval timer.
Extra flash function: Contrast control

Read more at: Pentax Z-1 / PZ-1 - Pentax Autofocus Film SLRs - Pentax Camera Reviews and Specifications


or Super Program

Description:
The Pentax Super Program (called Pentax Super A in some markets) is a versatile A-series film SLR featuring support for P, Tv, Av, and M exposure modes. You control the shutter speed using the push buttons on the camera, and the aperture via the aperture ring. Both can be set to auto (given you have an A-series lens or newer), which then brings the camera into Program mode. With M and K lenses Av and M exposure modes are available.

The Super Program was first Pentax with Program and Tv auto exposure and it also had TTL flash control, but even with the added electronics and mechanics the camera body is just about as compact as the original Pentax ME.

Disregarding the Pentax LX which is in a class by itself, the Pentax Super Program is the top model among all Pentax manual focus cameras when it comes to features and specifications.

Read more at: Pentax Super A / Super Program - Pentax Manual Focus Film SLRs - Pentax Camera Reviews and Specifications

[Ben-G]

You have all rights Aslyfox, I was
ironical... there is also the marvellous MZ-S ...

https://www.35mmc.com/13/10/2018/pentax-mz-s-31mm-43mm-77mm-lens-review/

[aslyfox]

You have all rights Aslyfox, I was
ironic... there is also the marvellous MZ S ...

my bad

I can't tell irony

unless I have a magnet handy