Full frame form factor - Smaller Body?

yucafrita · 09-02-2020, 01:31 AM

As much as I love my K-1 Mark II, sometimes I wish there was a smaller FF body from Pentax. Like K-7/5/3 for example. Just put the FF sensor into the old body. Keep the flash from the old body, omit the other bells and whistles which makes the K-1 such a great camera and put a realistic price tag on it. Could be a great entry-level FF. Guess it will never happen.

MarkJerling · 09-02-2020, 02:45 AM - **2 Likes**

I doubt you'd be able to fit a full frame sensor and SR system into a body as small as the K-5 / K-7 body. Other manufacturer's full frame offerings are quite a bit larger than the K-1. Heck, some of their APS-C cameras are larger too!
Pentax does quite the job fitting it all into such a compact package.

house · 09-02-2020, 02:47 AM

K new has ff viewfinder and ff IQ according to the recent Ricoh video. Perhaps its designed for the role you are describing? Price is said to be high though.

Crop factor is annoying with the lenses though.

MarkJerling · 09-02-2020, 02:48 AM - **4 Likes**

It's pretty full in there!

house · 09-02-2020, 02:50 AM

Originally posted by MarkJerling

I doubt you'd be able to fit a full frame sensor and SR system into a body as small as the K-5 / K-7 body. Other manufacturer's full frame offerings are quite a bit larger than the K-1. Heck, some of their APS-C cameras are larger too!
Pentax does quite the job fitting it all into such a compact package.

Pentax increase the depth and the hump/Mount area to compensate for width. Over all volume of the Pentax seems to be about the same as much of the competition.

yucafrita · 09-02-2020, 02:54 AM

Yeah, well, I was just thinking that the initial MZ-D prototype was not that large, apart from the integrated battery grip. Maybe the SR mechanism and the mirror is where the idea fails mostly. Just wondering since the mount was always FF.

thibs · 09-02-2020, 03:46 AM

A couple things are difficult to "compress". Among them:
* The prism (bigger than aps)
* AF sensor in the bottom, under the mount
* SR (and bigger SR 'cos bigger FF sensor)

thibs · 09-02-2020, 03:48 AM

Originally posted by yucafrita

Yeah, well, I was just thinking that the initial MZ-D prototype was not that large, apart from the integrated battery grip. Maybe the SR mechanism and the mirror is where the idea fails mostly. Just wondering since the mount was always FF.

Depth of MZ-D was small (no SR, ridiculously small screen) but it was very tall, with its mandatory embedded grip).

house · 09-02-2020, 03:55 AM

Seeing that split K-1 reminds me how annoyed I am with pentax for using a plastic top plate. Its way to brittle and nikon etc use metal tops as thats whats most likely to take s hit.

**BigMackCam** · 09-02-2020, 04:15 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by house

Seeing that split K-1 reminds me how annoyed I am with pentax for using a plastic top plate. Its way to brittle and nikon etc use metal tops as thats whats most likely to take s hit.

That's the price you pay for having in-camera GPS. The somewhat comparable Nikon D800 / D810 models - even the later D850 - don't have GPS, so the top plate can be entirely metallic. With the K-1 and K-1II, a synthetic top plate is required to avoid attenuating or blocking the GPS signal.

MarkJerling · 09-02-2020, 04:34 AM

Originally posted by BigMackCam

That's the price you pay for having in-camera GPS. The somewhat comparable Nikon D800 / D810 models - even the later D850 - don't have GPS, so the top plate can be entirely metallic. With the K-1 and K-1II, a synthetic top plate is required to avoid attenuating or blocking the GPS signal.

Very much so. I wish they had a bit of a composite solution, like a largely metal top piece with just enough plastic for the GPS signal to work. Certainly, if it was up to me, I'd redesign it with a metal part where the flash mount is, even if the rest of the hump needs to be plastic for the GPS. That thin plastic top. especially around the flash mount, turned out being a rather costly bump for me!

Unregistered User · 09-02-2020, 04:51 AM

Originally posted by yucafrita

As much as I love my K-1 Mark II, sometimes I wish there was a smaller FF body from Pentax. Like K-7/5/3 for example. Just put the FF sensor into the old body. Keep the flash from the old body, omit the other bells and whistles which makes the K-1 such a great camera and put a realistic price tag on it. Could be a great entry-level FF. Guess it will never happen.

I think you're trying to say you want a KP. Not really full-frame, but not really APS-C, either. Not as many pixels, and they're relatively tiny, but I think I get just as good pictures out of the KP as I do with the K-1 (I didn't opt for the "upgrade").

yucafrita · 09-02-2020, 04:59 AM

Originally posted by dlh

I think you're trying to say you want a KP. Not really full-frame, but not really APS-C, either. Not as many pixels, and they're relatively tiny, but I think I get just as good pictures out of the KP as I do with the K-1 (I didn't opt for the "upgrade").

Nope. I wont go APSC although I am fighting the gas to buy a CCD Pentax. 645D would be logical but I dont see that coming. A K-mount CCD yeah, but somehow, nahh.

**BigMackCam** · 09-02-2020, 05:19 AM

Originally posted by MarkJerling

Very much so. I wish they had a bit of a composite solution, like a largely metal top piece with just enough plastic for the GPS signal to work. Certainly, if it was up to me, I'd redesign it with a metal part where the flash mount is, even if the rest of the hump needs to be plastic for the GPS. That thin plastic top. especially around the flash mount, turned out being a rather costly bump for me!

Agreed. Interestingly, my Hasselblad HV (Sony SLT-A99) has an all-magnesium-alloy inner frame and top plate. The GPS unit is located on one side of the camera where there's a big cut-out - covered by the synthetic outer casing - to allow the signal to pass. Obviously it's an SLT camera rather than a DSLR, so the internal layout is considerably different... but I do wonder if Pentax could do something similar, moving the GPS antenna somewhere other than under the top plate or prism housing. I understand why it's positioned there, but given the number of vintage cameras with dinged prism housings, it seems precariously located

Is your K-1II back in your posession now, Mark?

house · 09-02-2020, 05:48 AM

Originally posted by BigMackCam

That's the price you pay for having in-camera GPS. The somewhat comparable Nikon D800 / D810 models - even the later D850 - don't have GPS, so the top plate can be entirely metallic. With the K-1 and K-1II, a synthetic top plate is required to avoid attenuating or blocking the GPS signal.

I think you can just place it somewhere else. Saw on the recent Fuji 100mp teardown at lensrentals that they have the wifi in the grip. There's certainly no need for the whole top plate to be plastic. The pointy bit at the prism is also geometrically sensitive so should really be metal. I know because mine cracked...

09-02-2020, 01:31 AM	#1
yucafrita Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 459	Full frame form factor - Smaller Body? As much as I love my K-1 Mark II, sometimes I wish there was a smaller FF body from Pentax. Like K-7/5/3 for example. Just put the FF sensor into the old body. Keep the flash from the old body, omit the other bells and whistles which makes the K-1 such a great camera and put a realistic price tag on it. Could be a great entry-level FF. Guess it will never happen.

09-02-2020, 02:45 AM - 2 Likes	#2
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,406	I doubt you'd be able to fit a full frame sensor and SR system into a body as small as the K-5 / K-7 body. Other manufacturer's full frame offerings are quite a bit larger than the K-1. Heck, some of their APS-C cameras are larger too! Pentax does quite the job fitting it all into such a compact package. Attached Images

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Crop factor or cr.. factor ?	deeslexia	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	4	10-18-2017 06:44 AM
Arguably the worlds best sensor, and it's way smaller than full frame. 500+ MP	Clinton	Photographic Technique	25	03-04-2011 09:10 PM
Full Frame lens vs DA & crop factor comparison...	JayR	Troubleshooting and Beginner Help	4	03-02-2010 09:15 PM
Why so many expecting full frame form Pentax?	ytterbium	Pentax News and Rumors	136	08-31-2009 09:30 PM
Form Factor	Lee	Photographic Technique	15	06-14-2008 01:45 AM

09-02-2020, 02:47 AM	#3
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	K new has ff viewfinder and ff IQ according to the recent Ricoh video. Perhaps its designed for the role you are describing? Price is said to be high though. Crop factor is annoying with the lenses though.

09-02-2020, 02:48 AM - 4 Likes	#4
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,406	It's pretty full in there!

09-02-2020, 02:50 AM	#5
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	Originally posted by MarkJerling I doubt you'd be able to fit a full frame sensor and SR system into a body as small as the K-5 / K-7 body. Other manufacturer's full frame offerings are quite a bit larger than the K-1. Heck, some of their APS-C cameras are larger too! Pentax does quite the job fitting it all into such a compact package. Pentax increase the depth and the hump/Mount area to compensate for width. Over all volume of the Pentax seems to be about the same as much of the competition.

09-02-2020, 02:54 AM	#6
yucafrita Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 459 Original Poster	Yeah, well, I was just thinking that the initial MZ-D prototype was not that large, apart from the integrated battery grip. Maybe the SR mechanism and the mirror is where the idea fails mostly. Just wondering since the mount was always FF.

09-02-2020, 03:46 AM	#7
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	A couple things are difficult to "compress". Among them: * The prism (bigger than aps) * AF sensor in the bottom, under the mount * SR (and bigger SR 'cos bigger FF sensor)

09-02-2020, 03:48 AM	#8
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by yucafrita Yeah, well, I was just thinking that the initial MZ-D prototype was not that large, apart from the integrated battery grip. Maybe the SR mechanism and the mirror is where the idea fails mostly. Just wondering since the mount was always FF. Depth of MZ-D was small (no SR, ridiculously small screen) but it was very tall, with its mandatory embedded grip).

09-02-2020, 03:55 AM	#9
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	Seeing that split K-1 reminds me how annoyed I am with pentax for using a plastic top plate. Its way to brittle and nikon etc use metal tops as thats whats most likely to take s hit.

09-02-2020, 04:15 AM - 2 Likes	#10
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,674	Originally posted by house Seeing that split K-1 reminds me how annoyed I am with pentax for using a plastic top plate. Its way to brittle and nikon etc use metal tops as thats whats most likely to take s hit. That's the price you pay for having in-camera GPS. The somewhat comparable Nikon D800 / D810 models - even the later D850 - don't have GPS, so the top plate can be entirely metallic. With the K-1 and K-1II, a synthetic top plate is required to avoid attenuating or blocking the GPS signal.

09-02-2020, 04:34 AM	#11
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,406	Originally posted by BigMackCam That's the price you pay for having in-camera GPS. The somewhat comparable Nikon D800 / D810 models - even the later D850 - don't have GPS, so the top plate can be entirely metallic. With the K-1 and K-1II, a synthetic top plate is required to avoid attenuating or blocking the GPS signal. Very much so. I wish they had a bit of a composite solution, like a largely metal top piece with just enough plastic for the GPS signal to work. Certainly, if it was up to me, I'd redesign it with a metal part where the flash mount is, even if the rest of the hump needs to be plastic for the GPS. That thin plastic top. especially around the flash mount, turned out being a rather costly bump for me!

09-02-2020, 04:51 AM	#12
Unregistered User Guest	Originally posted by yucafrita As much as I love my K-1 Mark II, sometimes I wish there was a smaller FF body from Pentax. Like K-7/5/3 for example. Just put the FF sensor into the old body. Keep the flash from the old body, omit the other bells and whistles which makes the K-1 such a great camera and put a realistic price tag on it. Could be a great entry-level FF. Guess it will never happen. I think you're trying to say you want a KP. Not really full-frame, but not really APS-C, either. Not as many pixels, and they're relatively tiny, but I think I get just as good pictures out of the KP as I do with the K-1 (I didn't opt for the "upgrade").

09-02-2020, 04:59 AM	#13
yucafrita Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 459 Original Poster	Originally posted by dlh I think you're trying to say you want a KP. Not really full-frame, but not really APS-C, either. Not as many pixels, and they're relatively tiny, but I think I get just as good pictures out of the KP as I do with the K-1 (I didn't opt for the "upgrade"). Nope. I wont go APSC although I am fighting the gas to buy a CCD Pentax. 645D would be logical but I dont see that coming. A K-mount CCD yeah, but somehow, nahh.

09-02-2020, 05:19 AM	#14
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,674	Originally posted by MarkJerling Very much so. I wish they had a bit of a composite solution, like a largely metal top piece with just enough plastic for the GPS signal to work. Certainly, if it was up to me, I'd redesign it with a metal part where the flash mount is, even if the rest of the hump needs to be plastic for the GPS. That thin plastic top. especially around the flash mount, turned out being a rather costly bump for me! Agreed. Interestingly, my Hasselblad HV (Sony SLT-A99) has an all-magnesium-alloy inner frame and top plate. The GPS unit is located on one side of the camera where there's a big cut-out - covered by the synthetic outer casing - to allow the signal to pass. Obviously it's an SLT camera rather than a DSLR, so the internal layout is considerably different... but I do wonder if Pentax could do something similar, moving the GPS antenna somewhere other than under the top plate or prism housing. I understand why it's positioned there, but given the number of vintage cameras with dinged prism housings, it seems precariously located Is your K-1II back in your posession now, Mark?

09-02-2020, 05:48 AM	#15
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	Originally posted by BigMackCam That's the price you pay for having in-camera GPS. The somewhat comparable Nikon D800 / D810 models - even the later D850 - don't have GPS, so the top plate can be entirely metallic. With the K-1 and K-1II, a synthetic top plate is required to avoid attenuating or blocking the GPS signal. I think you can just place it somewhere else. Saw on the recent Fuji 100mp teardown at lensrentals that they have the wifi in the grip. There's certainly no need for the whole top plate to be plastic. The pointy bit at the prism is also geometrically sensitive so should really be metal. I know because mine cracked...