Who else would like to see a retro Pentax camera ?

Kunzite · 11-26-2021, 05:29 AM

Originally posted by vijaykishan

, if it does what the K1 does (I can compromise on tilt display and a few others) with a better sensor and a faster memory write speeds, that would be my K1 upgrade candidate.

Hmm... it has to do what the K-1 does, it has to have a better sensor and improved performance. Your K-1 upgrade candidate is the upcoming K-1iii.

If you said you're willing to pay much more for much less, now that would have been the "digital LX".

house · 11-26-2021, 06:03 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Hmm... it has to do what the K-1 does, it has to have a better sensor and improved performance. Your K-1 upgrade candidate is the upcoming K-1iii.

If you said you're willing to pay much more for much less, now that would have been the "digital LX".

I really have no idea what drives the price of a new dslr model. My guess is what they expect they can sell it for. In many areas manufacturing cost and materials is irrelevant to price.

It would be really interesting to know if any less critical features are cost driving. My guess is that ergonomics and ui is quite expensive. reducing number of dials and buttons probably keeps cost down. Besides the obvious sensor and battery.

vijaykishan · 11-26-2021, 06:19 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Hmm... it has to do what the K-1 does, it has to have a better sensor and improved performance. Your K-1 upgrade candidate is the upcoming K-1iii.

If you said you're willing to pay much more for much less, now that would have been the "digital LX".

I did say, I can compromise on other features, did'nt I ?

- I dont care for video (K1 does), the display articulation can be compromised (K1 does), happy to give up the propreitoty battery for 26650/26800 without onboard charging, one SD card writer is enough (K1 has 2, slow ones) for me as long as it can write pixel-shift files fast enough. Would be happy with a smaller screen (compared to K1). These are the top level compromises that I can manage if the form-factor nears LX.

if this makes economic sense for Ricoh is a different question altogether though

.

Kunzite · 11-26-2021, 07:03 AM

Originally posted by vijaykishan

I did say, I can compromise on other features, did'nt I ?

- I dont care for video (K1 does), the display articulation can be compromised (K1 does), happy to give up the propreitoty battery for 26650/26800 without onboard charging, one SD card writer is enough (K1 has 2, slow ones) for me as long as it can write pixel-shift files fast enough. Would be happy with a smaller screen (compared to K1). These are the top level compromises that I can manage if the form-factor nears LX.

You did say that. How much more you'd be willing to pay for removal of video?

Take a look at the Nikon Df - which was a D600-level camera with retro touches and no video. And it costed as much as a D800.
Then, if we're talking about a digital LX, does it means removing the AF, too? That would probably get you to Leica prices. Not that anyone would pay that.
Simplifying the camera won't work.

I actually have a solution in mind, although not that of a retro camera but an evolution - and simplification - of the DSLR. Remove the dedicated AF module, and the metering system in the pentaprism. Replace the dual mirror system with a single semi-transparent one. AF and metering done directly on the sensor, with the mirror either up or down. Taking pictures with the mirror either up or down. Ricoh Imaging has a patent about that.
There are probably a lot of technological hurdles to solve (e.g. preventing light to reach the sensor during exposure). And I still don't see how they could get down to the LX form-factor.
Or that people won't start putting battery grips to compensate for the lower height

house · 11-26-2021, 08:17 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Take a look at the Nikon Df - which was a D600-level camera with retro touches and no video.

The sensor was from the D4 wasn't it? That was an interesting camera, I guess it made them try the Z fc they have the same rather strange 'analogue' control system don't they. Or did they change something?

I just cannot believe the lenses they produced for the Df and Zfc. The most fake looking retro you could imagine. No effort made!

Kunzite · 11-26-2021, 10:00 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by house

I just cannot believe the lenses they produced for the Df and Zfc. The most fake looking retro you could imagine. No effort made!

IMO the only one doing real retro is Leica. And only with the M rangefinders.

vijaykishan · 11-27-2021, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

IMO the only one doing real retro is Leica. And only with the M rangefinders.

Agree, and some of those LF folks.

**AgentL** · 11-27-2021, 11:06 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

IMO the only one doing real retro is Leica. And only with the M rangefinders.

True, although the SLR format is essentially a "retro" technology - how hard would it be to create a truly retro body?

Kunzite · 11-28-2021, 12:01 AM

Originally posted by AgentL

True, although the SLR format is essentially a "retro" technology - how hard would it be to create a truly retro body?

Impossible, if you're talking about "fit all DSLR stuff into a mechanical SLR form factor". There simply isn't room for it.

house · 11-28-2021, 02:28 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Impossible, if you're talking about "fit all DSLR stuff into a mechanical SLR form factor". There simply isn't room for it.

The question is what would you have to let go of to get there. So not "all DSLR stuff" but some. They even have a proposal to ditch AF, if that's considered anything should be considered.

**AgentL** · 11-29-2021, 12:13 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Impossible, if you're talking about "fit all DSLR stuff into a mechanical SLR form factor". There simply isn't room for it.

Sure there is, but get rid of: lots of buttons (use dedicated dials and some clean buttons like Leica does), even the LCD (who cares, I want the experience I have shooting film). And, you don't have to go with a tiny MX for your "retro" body, pick a later model that got things mostly right.

Wasp · 11-29-2021, 04:01 AM - **1 Like**

A retro Pentax would be nice, but I would prefer to see Pentax in the same market they used to be in. That is mostly about being a value for money alternative to the likes of Canon and Nikon. I don't need/want a Pentax equivalent of the EOS4000D (yuk!) but a $2000 APS-C DSLR is a little rich for my blood. The same goes for DSLRs with old tech sensors and dodgy aperture solenoids.

Apas · 11-29-2021, 01:42 PM

LX... and MZ-S. I love both and would buy digital versions.

**beachgardener** · 12-01-2021, 12:33 AM

Originally posted by Apas

LX... and MZ-S. I love both and would buy digital versions.

Yes I agree a digital in these version fully manual would be the sweet spot

**willdmo** · 12-21-2021, 11:21 AM

I would like to see reissues of the Pentax 67II, LX and MZ-S

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11-26-2021, 05:29 AM	#61
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by vijaykishan , if it does what the K1 does (I can compromise on tilt display and a few others) with a better sensor and a faster memory write speeds, that would be my K1 upgrade candidate. Hmm... it has to do what the K-1 does, it has to have a better sensor and improved performance. Your K-1 upgrade candidate is the upcoming K-1iii. If you said you're willing to pay much more for much less, now that would have been the "digital LX".

11-26-2021, 06:03 AM	#62
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	Originally posted by Kunzite Hmm... it has to do what the K-1 does, it has to have a better sensor and improved performance. Your K-1 upgrade candidate is the upcoming K-1iii. If you said you're willing to pay much more for much less, now that would have been the "digital LX". I really have no idea what drives the price of a new dslr model. My guess is what they expect they can sell it for. In many areas manufacturing cost and materials is irrelevant to price. It would be really interesting to know if any less critical features are cost driving. My guess is that ergonomics and ui is quite expensive. reducing number of dials and buttons probably keeps cost down. Besides the obvious sensor and battery.

11-26-2021, 06:19 AM	#63
vijaykishan Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2021 Photos: Gallery Posts: 999	Originally posted by Kunzite Hmm... it has to do what the K-1 does, it has to have a better sensor and improved performance. Your K-1 upgrade candidate is the upcoming K-1iii. If you said you're willing to pay much more for much less, now that would have been the "digital LX". I did say, I can compromise on other features, did'nt I ? - I dont care for video (K1 does), the display articulation can be compromised (K1 does), happy to give up the propreitoty battery for 26650/26800 without onboard charging, one SD card writer is enough (K1 has 2, slow ones) for me as long as it can write pixel-shift files fast enough. Would be happy with a smaller screen (compared to K1). These are the top level compromises that I can manage if the form-factor nears LX. if this makes economic sense for Ricoh is a different question altogether though .

11-26-2021, 07:03 AM	#64
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by vijaykishan I did say, I can compromise on other features, did'nt I ? - I dont care for video (K1 does), the display articulation can be compromised (K1 does), happy to give up the propreitoty battery for 26650/26800 without onboard charging, one SD card writer is enough (K1 has 2, slow ones) for me as long as it can write pixel-shift files fast enough. Would be happy with a smaller screen (compared to K1). These are the top level compromises that I can manage if the form-factor nears LX. You did say that. How much more you'd be willing to pay for removal of video? Take a look at the Nikon Df - which was a D600-level camera with retro touches and no video. And it costed as much as a D800. Then, if we're talking about a digital LX, does it means removing the AF, too? That would probably get you to Leica prices. Not that anyone would pay that. Simplifying the camera won't work. I actually have a solution in mind, although not that of a retro camera but an evolution - and simplification - of the DSLR. Remove the dedicated AF module, and the metering system in the pentaprism. Replace the dual mirror system with a single semi-transparent one. AF and metering done directly on the sensor, with the mirror either up or down. Taking pictures with the mirror either up or down. Ricoh Imaging has a patent about that. There are probably a lot of technological hurdles to solve (e.g. preventing light to reach the sensor during exposure). And I still don't see how they could get down to the LX form-factor. Or that people won't start putting battery grips to compensate for the lower height

11-26-2021, 08:17 AM	#65
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	Originally posted by Kunzite Take a look at the Nikon Df - which was a D600-level camera with retro touches and no video. The sensor was from the D4 wasn't it? That was an interesting camera, I guess it made them try the Z fc they have the same rather strange 'analogue' control system don't they. Or did they change something? I just cannot believe the lenses they produced for the Df and Zfc. The most fake looking retro you could imagine. No effort made!

11-26-2021, 10:00 AM - 1 Like	#66
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by house I just cannot believe the lenses they produced for the Df and Zfc. The most fake looking retro you could imagine. No effort made! IMO the only one doing real retro is Leica. And only with the M rangefinders.

11-27-2021, 02:17 PM	#67
vijaykishan Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2021 Photos: Gallery Posts: 999	Originally posted by Kunzite IMO the only one doing real retro is Leica. And only with the M rangefinders. Agree, and some of those LF folks.

11-27-2021, 11:06 PM	#68
AgentL Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Seattle Photos: Albums Posts: 1,754	Originally posted by Kunzite IMO the only one doing real retro is Leica. And only with the M rangefinders. True, although the SLR format is essentially a "retro" technology - how hard would it be to create a truly retro body?

11-28-2021, 12:01 AM	#69
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by AgentL True, although the SLR format is essentially a "retro" technology - how hard would it be to create a truly retro body? Impossible, if you're talking about "fit all DSLR stuff into a mechanical SLR form factor". There simply isn't room for it.

11-28-2021, 02:28 AM	#70
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	Originally posted by Kunzite Impossible, if you're talking about "fit all DSLR stuff into a mechanical SLR form factor". There simply isn't room for it. The question is what would you have to let go of to get there. So not "all DSLR stuff" but some. They even have a proposal to ditch AF, if that's considered anything should be considered.

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11-29-2021, 12:13 AM	#71
AgentL Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Seattle Photos: Albums Posts: 1,754	Originally posted by Kunzite Impossible, if you're talking about "fit all DSLR stuff into a mechanical SLR form factor". There simply isn't room for it. Sure there is, but get rid of: lots of buttons (use dedicated dials and some clean buttons like Leica does), even the LCD (who cares, I want the experience I have shooting film). And, you don't have to go with a tiny MX for your "retro" body, pick a later model that got things mostly right.

11-29-2021, 04:01 AM - 1 Like	#72
Wasp Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Pretoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,654	A retro Pentax would be nice, but I would prefer to see Pentax in the same market they used to be in. That is mostly about being a value for money alternative to the likes of Canon and Nikon. I don't need/want a Pentax equivalent of the EOS4000D (yuk!) but a $2000 APS-C DSLR is a little rich for my blood. The same goes for DSLRs with old tech sensors and dodgy aperture solenoids.

11-29-2021, 01:42 PM	#73
Apas Junior Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 40	LX... and MZ-S. I love both and would buy digital versions.

12-01-2021, 12:33 AM	#74
beachgardener Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,842	Originally posted by Apas LX... and MZ-S. I love both and would buy digital versions. Yes I agree a digital in these version fully manual would be the sweet spot

12-21-2021, 11:21 AM	#75
willdmo Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Stuttgart Posts: 389	I would like to see reissues of the Pentax 67II, LX and MZ-S