Originally posted by RobA_Oz That word "retro" is so overworked that using it has become "retro" in itself, to the point where it's become pretty much meaningless.
So, what's "retro"? Is it the faux Tuscan styling of the McMansion style of architecture (I use the word loosely), or the rebodied VW Golf/Beetle, or a Leica M6?
Seriously, you can reference the past with a few styling cues (which isn't "retro", in my view), or you can seek to reproduce it to a substantial degree of accuracy (which is). Personally, I think the KP sits more comfortably with the former, while the various Fuji DSLR-style MILCs and the Nikon Df are more aptly described by the latter.
As I tried to elucidate, retro, for me, is a control interface which does not overcomplicate or get in the way. We basically need only 3 controls on a camera: an ISO, a speed and an aperture. Everything else is cake decoration and tricks. I couldn't care less what a camera looks like if it gives me these three controls in an uncomplicated way. As it happens though, cameras that work this way tend to look good anyway.
---------- Post added 01-28-17 at 05:57 AM ----------
Originally posted by Tony Belding The "smart dial". Dial with cryptic markings that controls what the other, unmarked, dial does?
I thought my K-S2 was bad enough with its AUTO / SCN / A-HDR / U1 / U2 / B / M / TAv / Av / Tv / Sv / P dial. Then Pentax hit us wit the K-1 and its smart dial. Then we got the KP that has multiple dials with cryptical markings, including a dial that controls another dial. This looks to me like a descent into madness.
Again, contrast with Fujifilm. . . Numbered ISO dial, numbered shutter speed dial, aperture ring on the lens. Anybody who's been exposed to photographic principles can pick it up and understand it.
You've got it. What is really nice with a Fuji is I know how the camera is set up, even when it's switched off. You don't even need to look away to change things, as you can do it all by physical feel, just like we all used to.
---------- Post added 01-28-17 at 06:01 AM ----------
Originally posted by caliscouser Each manufacturer has to carve out their own niche in a shrinking market whilst simultaneously not alienating its installed user base (a conservative one in the case of Pentax) and attract both new users and crossover users from other systems.
Looks and design are ultimately subjective.
Manufacturers have a very fine line to walk and have to make careful trade-offs and compromises to please the most possible people.
Anyway I would argue that the K-7/K-5/K-3 line has far more retro design cues than any of its Nikon or Canon counterparts. Are they like Fuji's, no? But how big is the market for full retro cameras? and is it a bit of a temporary fad?
Erm, no, not a fad. It wasn't a fad in the 1920s when the first 35mm cameras came out was it? Look at how Fujifilm is doing in this market. Skyrocketing. Check out the new GFX model and tell me it's a fad.
---------- Post added 01-28-17 at 06:03 AM ----------
Originally posted by Gyroscope I think it finds a balance between traditional looks and the Pentax UI. I don't want to have two pentax cameras that work in different ways. I also appreciate the styling cues of the K1 carrying across and I think we can get a good idea where the K3 succesor is going.
One of the huge positives about the Pentax ecosystem is that if (or when) I buy the K3 successor I will have a medium format, full frame and APS-C camera that all have similar and familiar user interfaces and operations that all share batteries and flashes. A full retro camera would end up being a niche camera. Pentax is already niche why would they make an even more niche camera?
The problem with the KP (fine camera though it undoubtedly is) is that it is exactly already that - a niche camera. It is a sidestep from the current range. An alternative that is the same thing, packaged slightly differently.
But not enough of a difference to make it a worthwhile niche. If Pentax keeps on making mid-range advanced DSLRs and doesn't diversify it won't have success.
If you're going to go niche, don't remould a K-70 - provide an alternative approach, one that attracts a new market. That's what I'm saying.
---------- Post added 01-28-17 at 06:06 AM ----------
Originally posted by Not a Number Are you wanting a K-1 in a MX body?
Ain't gonna happen. You'd need a smaller battery, get rid of the space wasting SR mechanism, GPS, larger mirror and near 100% viewfinder (smaller pentaprism), no onboard flash, get rid of motor drive/continuous mode (smaller motor and mirror mechanism) and so for.
Maybe you'd end up with the intro FF camera that some people are screaming for but I doubt even they would buy it.
That's a lovely idea! I'd settle for a digital LX.
---------- Post added 01-28-17 at 06:14 AM ----------
Originally posted by Adam I think the retro ship has sailed. Classic looks are nice, but not at the expense of functionality or handling (which is usually where the compromise lies).
That said, a full-blown manual FF DSLR like the K1000 would be very very interesting, but maybe it's not feasible from a business standpoint.
But Adam, there is nothing simpler and more natural than an old-style interface. The way Fuji implements it is ideal. You have all your shutter speeds and an A setting. You have all your apertures and an A setting. All your ISOs and an A setting. So you get the same functionality i.e.. M, A, S, P, etc. by choosing which A(s) you want to set. I don't see any downside. You get to see what your camera is thinking even when it's switched off. You have no cryptic symbols and dial/button combinations to worry about, no screens to read. Other automatic functions can still be accessed via a menu or buttons. I know full well Pentax could do this, because they did it on film SLRs for 40 years.
I am not saying all their products should adopt this approach, but I'm saying if you're going to churn out a slightly modified alternative to your existing range, go all in and do something differently. The niche for the KP as I see it, is existing Pentax users with slightly smaller hands (!)
---------- Post added 01-28-17 at 06:19 AM ----------
Originally posted by Not a Number The Pentax Q-S1 wasn't retro enough for you?
No!?? You miss the point. I am talking about retro control, styling is secondary.