[Rondec]

Tony is a respected member who has a viewpoint. There's no need to be uncharitable. I don't see the point, but then lots of people think film camera users are sort of quaint. We all have our preferences.

IMHO the largest impediment to producing a manual Pentax digital (retro) camera is lack of an aperture ring on the modern lenses. Calling FA's (even Limiteds) modern is being generous.

Sure. I agree for sure. There is no arguing over taste or camera preferences for that matter.

The general attitude on the forum though tends to be "Why doesn't Pentax create a camera just for me?" Leave off all the features that I don't want (video, auto focus, scene modes, etc), make the ergonomics and interface exactly what I am used to, and price it perfectly for my budget (cheap). Like it or not, Pentax doesn't work that way. From a personal standpoint, I would rather learn how to maximize my use of the gear I own than rail against the fact that It does things and contains features that I might not use.

Often, once I get used to a camera's interface, I find it works at least as well, if not better, than the cameras I have used in the past.

My first SLR was a *ist film camera and so I have no nostalgia for these cameras of the past.

[Tan68]

I use M mode myself, especially when shooting with hand held light meter. But my main shooting mode is Program, which basically serves as Av or Tv mode on demand. And I'm really puzzled by snob attitude some people express about semi-automatic modes

After M, I always think of Tv mode
I forget, though, that using P can be like using either Av or Tv, as you like

---------- Post added 01-28-17 at 07:12 PM ----------

Sure. I agree for sure. There is no arguing over taste or camera preferences for that matter.

The general attitude on the forum though tends to be "Why doesn't Pentax create a camera just for me?" ...

Tony's comment about the mode dial was a bit hyperbolic given that [almost] all other brands use similar dials.

That the Pentax mode dial sits at the top of a slippery slope into the maelstrom with the smart dial being the banana peel underfoot is a statement of opinion.

I don't know if Tony should be lumped in with people that have the attitude Pentax should build a camera to suit them.. but there are some people that have the better interests of Pentax at heart and will not tolerate less than suitable and timely improvement.

[clackers]

If they had: taken out the AF and the more abstruse automatic features, scaled it down to fit into the original FM style body, then I'd probably be out there shooting with it now, not writing to you!

Nikon can't make money out of mainstream cameras at the moment, Plooksta, let alone design, build and market a niche body for you and the one other guy in the world who wants it.

[Tony Belding]

But Adam, there is nothing simpler and more natural than an old-style interface. The way Fuji implements it is ideal. You have all your shutter speeds and an A setting. You have all your apertures and an A setting. All your ISOs and an A setting. So you get the same functionality i.e.. M, A, S, P, etc. by choosing which A(s) you want to set.

And it's basically the same control scheme as the Pentax ZX-5n, which was well-liked by many.

---------- Post added 01-29-17 at 08:35 AM ----------

Over their storied history they've had (what we'd call now) vintage shaped film bodies, 80s and 90s, larger more rounded bodies, 00-10's more chiseled bodies, and now it seems back to a more vintage film body look. It seems they are regressing (progressing?) back to the vintage look over each couple of decades starting in the 80s as if they are unsure what to do or where to go.

Yeah. . . When it comes to matters of styling, it seems like Pentax have really been flailing about helplessly for several years. We got cameras that looked like running shoes (K30), cameras that looked like toys (K-01), cameras that looked sort of vaguely retro-ish (MX-1), cameras that looked like more futuristic toys with flashing lights (K-S1), cameras that look like sports gear (K-S2), and cameras in wild profusions of colors (several examples), cameras that look completely generic (most of the APS-C flagships), and now it seems we're going back to vaguely retro-ish again. There is no recognizable "Pentax look" unless you really go back all the way to the 1980s and manual-focus film SLR days.

[awscreo]

And it's basically the same control scheme as the Pentax ZX-5n, which was well-liked by many.

---------- Post added 01-29-17 at 08:35 AM ----------



Yeah. . . When it comes to matters of styling, it seems like Pentax have really been flailing about helplessly for several years. We got cameras that looked like running shoes (K30), cameras that looked like toys (K-01), cameras that looked sort of vaguely retro-ish (MX-1), cameras that looked like more futuristic toys with flashing lights (K-S1), cameras that look like sports gear (K-S2), and cameras in wild profusions of colors (several examples), cameras that look completely generic (most of the APS-C flagships), and now it seems we're going back to vaguely retro-ish again. There is no recognizable "Pentax look" unless you really go back all the way to the 1980s and manual-focus film SLR days.

I think since ricoh took over, styling has been a lot more consistent. I don't think they'll do plastic toys with whacky color schemes anymore, market doesn't need it. Black, silver and maybe another one or two colors, solid ergonomic bodies with few retro styling features, logical (to a majority at least) control schemes and feature packed bodies - seems to be the concept behind current Pentax developments.

Reading the thread, it seems to me that majority prefers things the way they are already, a few want a niche full retro manual camera. I don't think Pentax can afford going for the small niche, at least not right now. They are trying to expand their market share, and giving a majority what they want is a smart move, especially if people are switching from other systems (like me last year) and dont want to be alienated by control schemes. I was attracted by k-1's price point, features and an excellent ibis system, and since control scheme was almost the same as any other modern camera, switch was natural and smooth, which I greatly appreciate.

[RMabo]

A retro camera is useless without retro lenses. Sure Pentax could make a new serie of lenses with aperture rings, but what I do like with the Pentax approach is the HyperProgram and HyperManual. This requires two electronic dials that also are programmable. This concept was introduced with the Z-1p in the early 1990's and it's still the core of Pentax handling and operation. You turn one dial (aperture or shutter) and the camera turns the other (shutter or aperture). You turn none and camera turns both (P), or you turn both and camera turns none (M). This is genious!

And this is coming from me, a guy that really loved the MZ-5 and MZ-5N control layout with shutter dial and aperture ring and 'A' setting on them.
The silver/black KP really looks like a digital MZ-3/MZ-5N, but with HyperProgram control. I like that.

[plooksta]

Nikon can't make money out of mainstream cameras at the moment, Plooksta, let alone design, build and market a niche body for you and the one other guy in the world who wants it.

Well, I'm not really much concerned for Nikon. I still have a V1, but that's all. I am not really suggesting a special niche body all for me. What I am saying is that this KP looks like Pentax are over-egging the pudding in creating a (very nice) little camera which overlaps very substantially with two of their existing products. That is not a strategy for tapping new customers. That is a strategy for oversatisfying your existing customers, who are almost full.

Imagine Sunday lunch with boiled potatoes, roast potatoes and mashed potatoes too! Mom, couldn't you have done carrots?!!!! Sure Aunt Betty, mom and dad all love potatoes, but they couldn't eat the mash by the time they've had the roasters and the boiled ones. And Gramps and little sis and I would have loved carrots. Sometimes we love them so much we think about going across to the Jones' for lunch where they do have carrots.

(Moral of the story, I think Pentax cannot afford not to tap new market share with alternatives, or should I say, complimentary products)

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Last edited by plooksta; 01-29-2017 at 10:11 AM.

[Tan68]

... And Gramps and little sis and I would have loved carrots. Sometimes we love them so much we think about going across to the Jones' for lunch where they do have carrots. ...

When a young 'tater tot, my sister loved french string beans. She alone liked them kind of beans.. they regularly found their way to the table so she would have something to eat and leave the rest of us in peace. Most of the beans were discarded after she was full but we kept cooking them, dinner after dinner. She just couldn't eat enough to make it anything other than a waste of money. Because she was family, it didn't feel right to leave the door ajar so she would sneak off to the Sassers.. there were some days, though.....

[caliscouser]

Well, I'm not really much concerned for Nikon. I still have a V1, but that's all. I am not really suggesting a special niche body all for me. What I am saying is that this KP looks like Pentax are over-egging the pudding in creating a (very nice) little camera which overlaps very substantially with two of their existing products. That is not a strategy for tapping new customers. That is a strategy for oversatisfying your existing customers, who are almost full.

It's not a re-mold, an overlap or any kind of pudding. It's a camera that is deliberately specified and priced to be between the $650 K-70 and the probably $1300-1400 K3iii.

Without plugging that gap in the middle you potentially lose some of your own customers who are ready to upgrade and have no opportunity to gain new customers outside the system who are shopping at that price point.

[plooksta]

It's not a re-mold, an overlap or any kind of pudding. It's a camera that is deliberately specified and priced to be between the $650 K-70 and the probably $1300-1400 K3iii.

Without plugging that gap in the middle you potentially lose some of your own customers who are ready to upgrade and have no opportunity to gain new customers outside the system who are shopping at that price point.

Do you really think so? Personally I can't see why I would get this over a K70 if I were looking to get a new Pentax. It already looks to me like the K-3ii is a better deal. The gap in the line up is surely at the bottom, where the K500 used to be.

[caliscouser]

There's no money in consumer level DSLR's any more, especially for players like Pentax. There will be no K500 type camera.

[plooksta]

A retro camera is useless without retro lenses. Sure Pentax could make a new serie of lenses with aperture rings, but what I do like with the Pentax approach is the HyperProgram and HyperManual. This requires two electronic dials that also are programmable. This concept was introduced with the Z-1p in the early 1990's and it's still the core of Pentax handling and operation. You turn one dial (aperture or shutter) and the camera turns the other (shutter or aperture). You turn none and camera turns both (P), or you turn both and camera turns none (M). This is genious!

And this is coming from me, a guy that really loved the MZ-5 and MZ-5N control layout with shutter dial and aperture ring and 'A' setting on them.
The silver/black KP really looks like a digital MZ-3/MZ-5N, but with HyperProgram control. I like that.

Years ago, I had my heart set on an MZ-5N. Finally I saved up enough money, and it was just before I was going to Peru. I went into the store and bought the last one in stock. Thought, let me just test it before I go. It didn't work!!! No deal. Ended up with a Ricoh XR7 I think or an FM2. Anyway, I really liked the look of the thing.

[pres589]

Papa Pentax just delivered the KP and we're supposed to wish for a redo on the K500? Is this serious?

I bought my first Pentax, a K100D, right at the beginning of Hoya's slash & burn era, and I've while I wouldn't call this a perfect time for Pentax I also can't imagine sitting around saying "you know what they should do next? Bring a margin killing brick to market to fight with Nikon on the shelves of Wal-Mart". I can't even start with that.

The one thing that would cheer me up further is a new commitment from Tamron or Tokina to come back with some nice AF lenses. But that's another subject. Outside of this, life seems pretty good over here vs. the last decade. I'm really interested in what happens with the K-3 II replacement and what lenses come along in the next 18 months. If I need a retro Pentax, I'll find a film body, or a K-01, and just enjoy that.

[plooksta]

Papa Pentax just delivered the KP and we're supposed to wish for a redo on the K500? Is this serious?

I bought my first Pentax, a K100D, right at the beginning of Hoya's slash & burn era, and I've while I wouldn't call this a perfect time for Pentax I also can't imagine sitting around saying "you know what they should do next? Bring a margin killing brick to market to fight with Nikon on the shelves of Wal-Mart". I can't even start with that.

The one thing that would cheer me up further is a new commitment from Tamron or Tokina to come back with some nice AF lenses. But that's another subject. Outside of this, life seems pretty good over here vs. the last decade. I'm really interested in what happens with the K-3 II replacement and what lenses come along in the next 18 months. If I need a retro Pentax, I'll find a film body, or a K-01, and just enjoy that.

Not "wishing for a redo of the K500" btw. Is the K-01 "retro"? I'd have called it avant garde. Obviously there are different interpretations of what it means. What I mean is this...

[Rondec]

Do you really think so? Personally I can't see why I would get this over a K70 if I were looking to get a new Pentax. It already looks to me like the K-3ii is a better deal. The gap in the line up is surely at the bottom, where the K500 used to be.

The K3 II is at the end of its life cycle. It will not be widely available by the end of the summer. It is a mistake to look at the pricing of a camera towards the end of its life cycle and compare it to a newly released camera with regard to price. The K3 II is priced as low as it will go, while the KP is still on its MSRP.

At the same time, I do think Pentax built this camera to a target price point and put certain things in and left others out to meet that price.

Be that as it may, I wouldn't really expect Pentax to release a retro camera, but rather continue to tweak existing designs.