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02-11-2017, 01:45 AM   #16
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My impression base on imaging resource's samples is that Kp ISO 6400 is like K3 ISO 3200.

02-11-2017, 02:23 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobell69 Quote
Nice capture Kenspro. I shoot Jazz Bands quite frequently with the K3II. It will be interesting to see how it compares with the KP. I find the focus of the K3II quite acceptable. Lighting at our venue has been recently improved and often I can shoot at 800ISO but if I am shooting the crowds I am into 6400 territory.
Thank you I think KP is a tad better then K-3II on ISO..But still far away from K-1


QuoteOriginally posted by LightBug Quote
My impression base on imaging resource's samples is that Kp ISO 6400 is like K3 ISO 3200.
Only real life testing can show that. Im not so sure (after testing in real).
02-11-2017, 03:38 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
If Pentax does depend on the PRIME processor to perform AF, that could provide a major explanation for why their cameras lag behind Canikon in AF - from the reading on-line I've been doing, for example
dedicated auto focus processor: Canon EOS-1D / 5D / 6D Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
there seems to a general understanding that Canikon uses a dedicated processor in most cases. A DSP {"digital signal processor"} is especially designed and optimized to do certain tasks like this, and in the hands of a skilled developer will always come out ahead of a general purpose processor of comparable technology.
It all isnt a simple connection.

The 6D has only a single DSP, same as the 5D3. The 6D autofocus is inferior to a K-3II autofocus in all aspects of precision, speed, tracking, darkness (using comparable new glass; we just had a little fun test under colleagues), while this is the other way around for a 5D3.

The M5 has a single DSP two generations newer than a 5D3 and still is not match.

What is quite visible in the viewfinder and with reactions of the lens when using "auto" type AF modes where the camera is supposed to track a subject across all available AF points when the photographer is not tracking properly is the AF indicators turning on and off all the time. But the frequency of this is much higher on the Canon still.
So either the PRIME hardware is slower than the DIGIC or they do not dedicate similar computing power to AF routines versus other things in software or the algorithms used are slower. Obviously the faster you can compute and adjust to changes the better the results will be.

The other unknown factor is what the AF hardware (AF lenses and AF pixel sensors) makes for a difference. Double cross type sensors do provide twice the data to find the right focus. Nobody knows if Canon hardware sensors has more pixels or more sensitive pixels or whatever.
On the other side I am rather sure that the sheer number of AF points created in software from the AF hardware pixel rows has a very minor effect on most results.

Lastly the image recognition speed and intelligence used on the 360x240 RGB pixels could have also major impact. If you do that correctly 80% of all tracking is based on this and not of the very, very limited information from a few color blind AF pixel rows.

But: Nobody outside the manufacturers has any clue.
02-14-2017, 07:23 PM - 2 Likes   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
I tested KP on a concert yesterday. Not FW1.0 on yet, but i can already notice an improvement from the K-3

Lightning was bad and I'm not allowed to share High Res or RAW before FW is final (will still be a few improvements).

KP with 31mm LTD - 1/250, F/2.0 and ISO3200
Amazing kenspo, I definitely can't get anything that clean from my K-3 even at 1600 ISO.

It blows away how folks can be talking about Canikon, someone says the 1D has a separate AF processor, and everyone says "That's why Canikon is better." Well folks I hate to be the heart breaker here, but, putting a separate processor in a couple models doesn't make their whole line up better. It's obvious, It shouldn't need to be said. Yet the nonsense continues. It's bad enough the general public gets sucked in by these kinds of statements. You guys are supposed to be photo enthusiasts, and hence more knowledgeable..


Last edited by normhead; 02-14-2017 at 07:35 PM.
02-15-2017, 03:12 AM - 3 Likes   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Amazing kenspo, I definitely can't get anything that clean from my K-3 even at 1600 ISO.

It blows away how folks can be talking about Canikon, someone says the 1D has a separate AF processor, and everyone says "That's why Canikon is better." Well folks I hate to be the heart breaker here, but, putting a separate processor in a couple models doesn't make their whole line up better. It's obvious, It shouldn't need to be said. Yet the nonsense continues. It's bad enough the general public gets sucked in by these kinds of statements. You guys are supposed to be photo enthusiasts, and hence more knowledgeable..
Thank you

There is stuff I'm not happy about with Pentax, but when it comes to the most important thing..Picturequality..Pentax is top notch! And on my issues, thats stuff that getting a bit better all the time. But there is stuff my CaNikon colleagues struggle with too..So i guess there is not a camera out there that will satisfy you 100% But you have a point, there is a lot of nonsense out there...Many people can't understand why i dont use Canon/Nikon/Sony..Since i suppose to be a pro..But my pictures shot them up most times
02-15-2017, 03:25 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
It all isnt a simple connection.

The 6D has only a single DSP, same as the 5D3. The 6D autofocus is inferior to a K-3II autofocus in all aspects of precision, speed, tracking, darkness (using comparable new glass; we just had a little fun test under colleagues), while this is the other way around for a 5D3.

The M5 has a single DSP two generations newer than a 5D3 and still is not match.

What is quite visible in the viewfinder and with reactions of the lens when using "auto" type AF modes where the camera is supposed to track a subject across all available AF points when the photographer is not tracking properly is the AF indicators turning on and off all the time. But the frequency of this is much higher on the Canon still.
So either the PRIME hardware is slower than the DIGIC or they do not dedicate similar computing power to AF routines versus other things in software or the algorithms used are slower. Obviously the faster you can compute and adjust to changes the better the results will be.

The other unknown factor is what the AF hardware (AF lenses and AF pixel sensors) makes for a difference. Double cross type sensors do provide twice the data to find the right focus. Nobody knows if Canon hardware sensors has more pixels or more sensitive pixels or whatever.
On the other side I am rather sure that the sheer number of AF points created in software from the AF hardware pixel rows has a very minor effect on most results.

Lastly the image recognition speed and intelligence used on the 360x240 RGB pixels could have also major impact. If you do that correctly 80% of all tracking is based on this and not of the very, very limited information from a few color blind AF pixel rows.

But: Nobody outside the manufacturers has any clue.
I found that very interesting/helpful
02-15-2017, 06:04 AM   #22
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This page has a burst of an oncoming train taken with the KP and the 55-300 PLM, which might help to gauge the capability of the AF.C, but not with full resolution images. The reviewer calls the AF "excellent". I'm not sure how the K-3 or K-3ii would fare in this kind of test.

PENTAX KP review???????????????? ? ?? ????????? 2017 - ????
02-15-2017, 06:17 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
This page has a burst of an oncoming train taken with the KP and the 55-300 PLM, which might help to gauge the capability of the AF.C, but not with full resolution images. The reviewer calls the AF "excellent". I'm not sure how the K-3 or K-3ii would fare in this kind of test.

PENTAX KP review???????????????? ? ?? ????????? 2017 - ????
Depends on how fast the train was moving, and several other factors.

02-15-2017, 07:05 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Amazing kenspo, I definitely can't get anything that clean from my K-3 even at 1600 ISO.

It blows away how folks can be talking about Canikon, someone says the 1D has a separate AF processor, and everyone says "That's why Canikon is better." Well folks I hate to be the heart breaker here, but, putting a separate processor in a couple models doesn't make their whole line up better. It's obvious, It shouldn't need to be said. Yet the nonsense continues. It's bad enough the general public gets sucked in by these kinds of statements. You guys are supposed to be photo enthusiasts, and hence more knowledgeable..
I agree Norm, there's weird logic in a lot of camera circles.

Can't wait for these KP's to start shipping, I'm so curious how they'll fare. I'm moving house right now so not in a great position to blow money on a new camera body, but it looks like a great upgrade for what I find important in my K3 (and I already find the K3 amazing.)
02-15-2017, 02:09 PM - 1 Like   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Depends on how fast the train was moving, and several other factors.
Rough estimate is 8-10m/s (or 29-36 km/h). I used the track gauge (looks like 2 popular options in Japan) to estimate the size of the trains window, then this window size to estimate the distance in the first and last frames plus the time stamps to get the speed.

Guaranteed to be some measurement error on my part, but a fair guess is that it's moving faster than the high end of my cruising speed on a bike. I have a beard that causes a good bit of drag but I will speed up if there's pie at my destination, so there's some leeway in using me as a benchmark.
02-16-2017, 12:33 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
I tested KP on a concert yesterday. Not FW1.0 on yet, but i can already notice an improvement from the K-3

Lightning was bad and I'm not allowed to share High Res or RAW before FW is final (will still be a few improvements).

KP with 31mm LTD - 1/250, F/2.0 and ISO3200
Do you shoot with K-3 + FA31 at the same time? No. That's why your opinion is subjective.
02-16-2017, 02:50 AM - 5 Likes   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Do you shoot with K-3 + FA31 at the same time? No. That's why your opinion is subjective.
I have shoot many hundred concerts with K-3 and K-3II and 31LTD. I think i know what i talk about. But not surprised you did find something to nag about this time too. It seems to be your tune..Negativity and nagging.
02-16-2017, 05:44 AM - 1 Like   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
I have shoot many hundred concerts with K-3 and K-3II and 31LTD. I think i know what i talk about. But not surprised you did find something to nag about this time too. It seems to be your tune..Negativity and nagging.
The best defence is attack.

I don't like to be fanatic, it's slavery of soul.

What do you mean improvement?
What kind of improvement?
How do you measure such improvement?


I've checked KP's description and found only ONE advertising new thing about AF
High-speed AF algorithm
Features4 | PENTAX KP | RICOH IMAGING

But AF speed depends on lens. The difference in speed of FA31 on K200D, K-5II, K-3 is negligible.

But the main problem of Pentax AF system now is not only speed, but accuracy in any condition and real tracking AF in AF-C - not imitation, but real work.

I think that KP's AF is the same as K-1 or K-3II.
02-16-2017, 06:02 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
I have shoot many hundred concerts with K-3 and K-3II and 31LTD. I think i know what i talk about. But not surprised you did find something to nag about this time too. It seems to be your tune..Negativity and nagging.
In our days, personal opinion especially from peoples that have knowledge and experience is the most valuable. Please keep involved in that mattery, you are important source much more useful than advertising materials...
02-16-2017, 06:44 AM - 1 Like   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
The best defence is attack.
Good to know, but your constant nagging and negativity is getting you very close to the ignore button.

Do your really think the 31LTD is the only lense i tested on the KP? Really It was the 31 on that specific picture..But I've tested almost every lense in my arsenal on the KP. I also have 2 K-1, 2 K-3II and 2 K-3 in my bag..do you really think i dont test thing properly? Get real!!

---------- Post added 02-16-17 at 02:48 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Ventzy Quote
In our days, personal opinion especially from peoples that have knowledge and experience is the most valuable. Please keep involved in that mattery, you are important source much more useful than advertising materials...
People can pixelpeep on a screen and read about stuff as much as they want. I hardly ever care about that. I test stuff in real life..Best way to figure out whats working and not And i try to share it with you guys.

Let it also be said, that I'm not signed by Ricoh at all for testing stuff and be available for users at all..But still i use a lot of time doing this in me free time. But people that that ogl caracter make me dont want to waste more of my free time...

Only task i have in my contract, is to sell in the brand to new people, and specific pros i meet in the industry.
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