ES on KP significantly quieter than K-1?

**BruceBanner** · 11-11-2017, 04:32 PM

I've been experimenting with my recently acquired KP. I am making a 'church' mode, that involves using Monopod, Live View, ES on and MF only (with Focus Peaking on to help). I tried this set up with the K-1 as well, and I am pretty sure the KP offers a substantially different quieter experience in this regard over the K-1. The ES seems to resolve shutter shock issues for the K-1, but doesn't sound that too indifferent to the actual mechanical shutter sound, however on the KP its like when in ES mode it's dead silent!

Anyone else found this to be true?

Cheers,

Bruce

Adam · 11-11-2017, 04:37 PM

Well the shutter itself is a lot smaller, so that makes a lot of sense. Also, I believe the KP has a more advanced ES system, with fewer limitations on when it can be used.

HarisF1 · 11-11-2017, 04:41 PM

It's completely silent when the lens aperture doesn't have to click.

**Bob 256** · 11-11-2017, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by HarisF1

It's completely silent when the lens aperture doesn't have to click.

"It's" - KP or the K-1?

**BruceBanner** · 11-11-2017, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by Adam

Well the shutter itself is a lot smaller, so that makes a lot of sense. Also, I believe the KP has a more advanced ES system, with fewer limitations on when it can be used.

Wow, yes indeed it does, what a pleasant surprise. Here's what I have discovered thus far when trying to set up a 'Church' mode, or basically any set up that involves making the least amount of noise possible;

KP

- I'm using TAv mode and some ETTL (fyi)
- ES on

KP can do this with ES on that the K-1 can't (if I'm not mistaken);

- perform incredibly quiet, almost dead silent, if you are using MF then its practically stealth mode.
- can use ES in conjunction with AF.C!
- can use ES outside of LV mode, ie use it with LV off and use OVF!
- can use burst mode!

SR is still off however when using ES, no way of getting round that. I also noticed that when using my DFA 100mm, the AF noise the KP makes during focusing is far higher than the K-1 makes with the same lens attached. However, using the KP with AF in ES mode with the aforementioned lens, if I actually lock onto a subject, then I can burst 5-10 shots of easily and all registering dead silent! Whereas the K-1 would 'click' during each and every bursting shot.

Damn... that's impressive. If I could find a good longer focal range lens that AF silent, then pairing that with the KP would be a wicked Church combo!

HarisF1 · 11-11-2017, 05:44 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Bob 256

"It's" - KP or the K-1?

The KP - I haven't really tested the K-1's ES mode.

... (and three minutes later, I have now tested it).

It seems as though the K-1 flips the mirror down after each shot. Even when turning image review off, the mirror still flips for each shot. The KP doesn't do that so is completely silent.

Adam · 11-11-2017, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by BruceBanner

- can use ES outside of LV mode, ie use it with LV off and use OVF!

Yes, this is the big one. Must be a hardware thing, or perhaps not helpful on the K-1 with its larger mirror.

Adam
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**monochrome** · 11-11-2017, 08:22 PM

Originally posted by Adam

Yes, this is the big one. Must be a hardware thing, or perhaps not helpful on the K-1 with its larger mirror.

If the mirror is down so the image is reflected up to the prism base and out the exit pupil (OVF), how does the image circle fall on the sensor to permit ES and image capture (even if the shutter is open)?

HarisF1 · 11-12-2017, 12:36 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

If the mirror is down so the image is reflected up to the prism base and out the exit pupil (OVF), how does the image circle fall on the sensor to permit ES and image capture (even if the shutter is open)?

The mirror flips out of the way if you're using ES with OVF. The ES is used for the faster 1/24000 shutter speed so isn't purely a silent shooting mechanic on the KP, even though it works amazingly well in live view to enable silent shots.

biz-engineer · 11-12-2017, 01:18 AM

Originally posted by BruceBanner

I've been experimenting with my recently acquired KP. I am making a 'church' mode, that involves using Monopod, Live View, ES on and MF only (with Focus Peaking on to help).

Do you mean you'd like to take photos of people without their consent?

When the person being photographer hear the noise it's already too late the photo is already in the box, noise is not an issue.

**i_trax** · 11-12-2017, 01:59 AM

Most churches and museums ask photographers not to use tripods and flashes and ask to keep all noises as low as possible.
They are public places after all so you can take photos of architecture and individuals.
I love taking photos in churches (not weddings) , never had any problems, sometimes I take Pentax Q or MX-1 to be less visible.

**BruceBanner** · 11-12-2017, 02:19 AM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

Do you mean you'd like to take photos of people without their consent?

When the person being photographer hear the noise it's already too late the photo is already in the box, noise is not an issue.

No lol, I mean to take pictures without annoying a crowd or those sitting/standing near you. Who knows... they might appreciate it and perhaps one day hire you to do a job due to your consideration towards others!

**monochrome** · 11-12-2017, 07:27 AM

Thank you. I understood that part. What I don’t understand is, if the mirror is flipped out of the way with the shutter open to use ES - how can you coincidentally use the OVF? The mirror is either UP, blocking the OVF light path, or DOWN, blocking the sensor light path, or the mirror moves and shutter 1st curtain opens but the ES actually electronically ‘captures’ the image without use of the second curtain (which isn’t really silent at all).

Originally posted by HarisF1

The mirror flips out of the way if you're using ES with OVF. The ES is used for the faster 1/24000 shutter speed so isn't purely a silent shooting mechanic on the KP, even though it works amazingly well in live view to enable silent shots.

So for truly silent, open shutter ES, LiveView is still required. For extremely fast (electronic) shutter in OVF, the shutter and mirror still operate but the camera electronically ‘reads’ the image data stream for only 1/24,000 second; IOW it is a hybrid shutter.

**sibyrnes** · 11-12-2017, 09:12 AM

Originally posted by HarisF1

The mirror flips out of the way if you're using ES with OVF. The ES is used for the faster 1/24000 shutter speed so isn't purely a silent shooting mechanic on the KP, even though it works amazingly well in live view to enable silent shots.

Actually, ES can be used with the OVF at all shutter speeds with the KP.

HarisF1 · 11-12-2017, 09:46 AM

Originally posted by sibyrnes

Actually, ES can be used with the OVF at all shutter speeds with the KP.

I wasn't suggesting otherwise though, sorry

ES is a bit irritating under energy saver bulb lighting so I usually just avoid using it. If and when I need the silent shooting, I'll use liveview!

11-11-2017, 04:32 PM	#1
BruceBanner Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 5,405	ES on KP significantly quieter than K-1? I've been experimenting with my recently acquired KP. I am making a 'church' mode, that involves using Monopod, Live View, ES on and MF only (with Focus Peaking on to help). I tried this set up with the K-1 as well, and I am pretty sure the KP offers a substantially different quieter experience in this regard over the K-1. The ES seems to resolve shutter shock issues for the K-1, but doesn't sound that too indifferent to the actual mechanical shutter sound, however on the KP its like when in ES mode it's dead silent! Anyone else found this to be true? Cheers, Bruce

11-11-2017, 04:37 PM	#2
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,597	Well the shutter itself is a lot smaller, so that makes a lot of sense. Also, I believe the KP has a more advanced ES system, with fewer limitations on when it can be used. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

11-12-2017, 07:27 AM	#13
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Thank you. I understood that part. What I don’t understand is, if the mirror is flipped out of the way with the shutter open to use ES - how can you coincidentally use the OVF? The mirror is either UP, blocking the OVF light path, or DOWN, blocking the sensor light path, or the mirror moves and shutter 1st curtain opens but the ES actually electronically ‘captures’ the image without use of the second curtain (which isn’t really silent at all). Originally posted by HarisF1 The mirror flips out of the way if you're using ES with OVF. The ES is used for the faster 1/24000 shutter speed so isn't purely a silent shooting mechanic on the KP, even though it works amazingly well in live view to enable silent shots. So for truly silent, open shutter ES, LiveView is still required. For extremely fast (electronic) shutter in OVF, the shutter and mirror still operate but the camera electronically ‘reads’ the image data stream for only 1/24,000 second; IOW it is a hybrid shutter. Last edited by monochrome; 11-12-2017 at 07:37 AM.

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11-11-2017, 04:41 PM	#3
HarisF1 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 543	It's completely silent when the lens aperture doesn't have to click.

11-11-2017, 04:59 PM	#4
Bob 256 Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Idaho Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,377	Originally posted by HarisF1 It's completely silent when the lens aperture doesn't have to click. "It's" - KP or the K-1?

11-11-2017, 05:21 PM	#5
BruceBanner Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 5,405 Original Poster	Originally posted by Adam Well the shutter itself is a lot smaller, so that makes a lot of sense. Also, *I believe the KP has a more advanced ES system*, with fewer limitations on when it can be used. Wow, yes indeed it does, what a pleasant surprise. Here's what I have discovered thus far when trying to set up a 'Church' mode, or basically any set up that involves making the least amount of noise possible; KP - I'm using TAv mode and some ETTL (fyi) - ES on KP can do this with ES on that the K-1 can't (if I'm not mistaken); - perform incredibly quiet, almost dead silent, if you are using MF then its practically stealth mode. - can use ES in conjunction with AF.C! - can use ES outside of LV mode, ie use it with LV off and use OVF! - can use burst mode! SR is still off however when using ES, no way of getting round that. I also noticed that when using my DFA 100mm, the AF noise the KP makes during focusing is far higher than the K-1 makes with the same lens attached. However, using the KP with AF in ES mode with the aforementioned lens, if I actually lock onto a subject, then I can burst 5-10 shots of easily and all registering dead silent! Whereas the K-1 would 'click' during each and every bursting shot. Damn... that's impressive. If I could find a good longer focal range lens that AF silent, then pairing that with the KP would be a wicked Church combo!

11-11-2017, 05:44 PM - 1 Like	#6
HarisF1 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 543	Originally posted by Bob 256 "It's" - KP or the K-1? The KP - I haven't really tested the K-1's ES mode. ... (and three minutes later, I have now tested it). It seems as though the K-1 flips the mirror down after each shot. Even when turning image review off, the mirror still flips for each shot. The KP doesn't do that so is completely silent.

11-11-2017, 05:46 PM	#7
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,597	Originally posted by BruceBanner - can use ES outside of LV mode, ie use it with LV off and use OVF! Yes, this is the big one. Must be a hardware thing, or perhaps not helpful on the K-1 with its larger mirror. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

11-11-2017, 08:22 PM	#8
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Adam Yes, this is the big one. Must be a hardware thing, or perhaps not helpful on the K-1 with its larger mirror. If the mirror is down so the image is reflected up to the prism base and out the exit pupil (OVF), how does the image circle fall on the sensor to permit ES and image capture (even if the shutter is open)?

11-12-2017, 12:36 AM	#9
HarisF1 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 543	Originally posted by monochrome If the mirror is down so the image is reflected up to the prism base and out the exit pupil (OVF), how does the image circle fall on the sensor to permit ES and image capture (even if the shutter is open)? The mirror flips out of the way if you're using ES with OVF. The ES is used for the faster 1/24000 shutter speed so isn't purely a silent shooting mechanic on the KP, even though it works amazingly well in live view to enable silent shots.

11-12-2017, 01:18 AM	#10
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,239	Originally posted by BruceBanner I've been experimenting with my recently acquired KP. I am making a 'church' mode, that involves using Monopod, Live View, ES on and MF only (with Focus Peaking on to help). Do you mean you'd like to take photos of people without their consent? When the person being photographer hear the noise it's already too late the photo is already in the box, noise is not an issue.

11-12-2017, 01:59 AM	#11
i_trax Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Perth Western Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,621	Most churches and museums ask photographers not to use tripods and flashes and ask to keep all noises as low as possible. They are public places after all so you can take photos of architecture and individuals. I love taking photos in churches (not weddings) , never had any problems, sometimes I take Pentax Q or MX-1 to be less visible.

11-12-2017, 02:19 AM	#12
BruceBanner Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 5,405 Original Poster	Originally posted by biz-engineer Do you mean you'd like to take photos of people without their consent? When the person being photographer hear the noise it's already too late the photo is already in the box, noise is not an issue. No lol, I mean to take pictures without annoying a crowd or those sitting/standing near you. Who knows... they might appreciate it and perhaps one day hire you to do a job due to your consideration towards others!

11-12-2017, 09:12 AM	#14
sibyrnes Site Supporter Join Date: May 2016 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 447	Originally posted by HarisF1 The mirror flips out of the way if you're using ES with OVF. The ES is used for the faster 1/24000 shutter speed so isn't purely a silent shooting mechanic on the KP, even though it works amazingly well in live view to enable silent shots. Actually, ES can be used with the OVF at all shutter speeds with the KP.

11-12-2017, 09:46 AM	#15
HarisF1 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 543	Originally posted by sibyrnes Actually, ES can be used with the OVF at all shutter speeds with the KP. I wasn't suggesting otherwise though, sorry ES is a bit irritating under energy saver bulb lighting so I usually just avoid using it. If and when I need the silent shooting, I'll use liveview!