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05-11-2018, 09:39 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wolfeye Quote
I am far less likely to ever buy another Pentax camera after reading this thread. What you went through is terrible. Companies that won't honor their warranties BASED ON THEIR OWN MARKETING should be panned. Fortunately, nowadays, most things bought with a credit card have extra protection. A *weatherproof* camera that fails in the light rain or snow... that's got to be a first. And here I have pics of my K-70 all covered in snow, thinking, wow, it's great to have purchased a weatherproof camera. Silly me.

Let this be a lesson to everyone.You might *feel* that Pentax is a kinder, softer, gentler camera company, more friendly that the big dogs out there. But they aren't. They're just as greedy as the next.
couldn't agree more on that


Last edited by BigMackCam; 05-20-2018 at 03:47 PM. Reason: Edited quoted post
05-11-2018, 10:27 AM - 1 Like   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wolfeye Quote
I am far less likely to ever buy another Pentax camera after reading this thread. What you went through is terrible. Companies that won't honor their warranties BASED ON THEIR OWN MARKETING should be panned. Fortunately, nowadays, most things bought with a credit card have extra protection. A *weatherproof* camera that fails in the light rain or snow... that's got to be a first. And here I have pics of my K-70 all covered in snow, thinking, wow, it's great to have purchased a weatherproof camera. Silly me.

Let this be a lesson to everyone.You might *feel* that Pentax is a kinder, softer, gentler camera company, more friendly that the big dogs out there. But they aren't. They're just as greedy as the next.
You have never worked customer service have you? Customers often exaggerate issues and or misuse their items and then claim that it was only used in perfect weather, on Sundays only, and never even breathed on.
In the words of old school salespeople, "Buyers are liars!"

Just go watch a return counter and see what people think is wear and tear. Even LL Bean has quit offering a lifetime warrantee on their goods, and they were the very best at honoring their lifetime warrantee. I n their statement they had an increase in people abusing the policy so they had to stop it. In the OP's case I do not know how he handled his KP but there have to be limits on certain returns, and it certainly looked like the Lens Rentals post on water damage.

Last edited by BigMackCam; 05-20-2018 at 03:48 PM. Reason: Edited quoted post
05-11-2018, 12:29 PM - 1 Like   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by SSGGeezer Quote
You have never worked customer service have you? Customers often exaggerate issues and or misuse their items and then claim that it was only used in perfect weather, on Sundays only, and never even breathed on.
In the words of old school salespeople, "Buyers are liars!"

Just go watch a return counter and see what people think is wear and tear. Even LL Bean has quit offering a lifetime warrantee on their goods, and they were the very best at honoring their lifetime warrantee. I n their statement they had an increase in people abusing the policy so they had to stop it. In the OP's case I do not know how he handled his KP but there have to be limits on certain returns, and it certainly looked like the Lens Rentals post on water damage.
I have no problem with Pentax saying there was water damage if they didn't market their cameras with photos showing them covered in water drops. I take the OP at his word. If he is describing things honestly and accurately then this should have been repaired under warranty.
05-12-2018, 01:11 PM - 1 Like   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wolfeye Quote
I have no problem with Pentax saying there was water damage if they didn't market their cameras with photos showing them covered in water drops. I take the OP at his word. If he is describing things honestly and accurately then this should have been repaired under warranty.

pentax weather "resistance"

05-13-2018, 07:30 AM - 1 Like   #65
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After reading this thread, I'm glad I've ordered a LensCoat Raincover for my K3 and Sigma 300 F4!

It's very sad a consumer has to go thru this; and I certainly wish the OP the very best, with his new KP!
05-20-2018, 04:00 PM - 2 Likes   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wolfeye Quote
A *weatherproof* camera that fails in the light rain or snow... that's got to be a first. And here I have pics of my K-70 all covered in snow, thinking, wow, it's great to have purchased a weatherproof camera. Silly me.


Pentax cameras are not weatherproof.


They are weather resistant.


Big difference.
05-20-2018, 04:24 PM - 5 Likes   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wolfeye Quote
I am far less likely to ever buy another Pentax camera after reading this thread. What you went through is terrible. Companies that won't honor their warranties BASED ON THEIR OWN MARKETING should be panned. Fortunately, nowadays, most things bought with a credit card have extra protection. A *weatherproof* camera that fails in the light rain or snow... that's got to be a first. And here I have pics of my K-70 all covered in snow, thinking, wow, it's great to have purchased a weatherproof camera. Silly me.

Let this be a lesson to everyone.You might *feel* that Pentax is a kinder, softer, gentler camera company, more friendly that the big dogs out there. But they aren't. They're just as greedy as the next.
A couple of comments, here. As Racer said above, Pentax cameras are NOT waterproof. They're weather resistant, and many folks have had great service from that weather resistant capability. But it's additional protection only - not a guarantee that water ingress can't and won't occur.

Ricoh / Pentax has to bear some responsibility for any dissatisfaction, though, since it does advertise its cameras beaded with water and touted as suitable for harsh environments. That's where I think they're stretching things a little. They're by no means unique in that sense... all sorts of water resistant products are marketed in the same way (anyone who collects watches will know this, and will be aware of similar disappointments when said water resistance didn't equate to "water proof").

Actually, we agree on one more point... Pentax isn't much different to any other camera manufacturer - Nikon, Canon, Sony, Olympus, Fuji, Panasonic etc. (all of whom have weather resistant - but not waterproof - products, and have similar warranty limitations and complaints from dissatisfied users). This is a photography-related division of a huge international corporation. It operates accordingly, and sometimes that's not in favour of warranty claimants.

The simple fact is that it's pretty much impossible to make an interchangeable lens camera completely waterproof without using a housing of some sort. Even then, such a housing will have weaknesses.

I do sympathise with the OP, and as you suggest, there is a lesson to be learned. But I disagree on the lesson. Instead, it's that we should not trust any product that does not have an official waterproof rating to be anything other than weather resistant. And all "weather resistant" means is, somewhat less likely to suffer water and dust ingress than something that isn't.

Last edited by BigMackCam; 05-21-2018 at 02:18 AM.
05-21-2018, 01:39 AM - 1 Like   #68
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and what exactly that means

WEATHER RESISTANCE.


__

As we can see from several users,

that weather must be almost shine and sunny

05-21-2018, 01:59 AM - 1 Like   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by panonski Quote
and what exactly that means

WEATHER RESISTANCE.


__

As we can see from several users,

that weather must be almost shine and sunny
No, that's simply inaccurate.

Weather resistance means just that, and nothing more. There are many gaskets between the body's clam-shell parts, top and bottom, mount, controls, ports and internal flash. They put them there for a reason - to reduce the chances of moisture and dust getting inside. They provide weather resistance - not weather proofing.

Any DSLR, mirrorless or compact camera, even without these gaskets, is - to a minor extent - weather resistant due to the electronics and mechanical components being enclosed in a body... But on WR cameras, the interlocking design of the body parts and the many gaskets are intended to improve that resistance considerably. That doesn't equate to weather or water proofing, though.

Of course there have been some failures, and I don't doubt that some of those have been in relatively minor weather conditions. Manufacturing tolerances will mean that some camera bodies are more tightly interlocked than others, and some gaskets will have slight imperfections. Still, they provide greater resistance than a camera without interlocked body parts and gaskets.

I wonder if you've ever driven a Land Rover? Not the latest models, but the traditional type used by farmers and military forces the world over? Like most cars, they have rubber gaskets around the doors and tailgate to prevent water ingress. I say "prevent", but I should say, "reduce the chances". Anyone who's driven one in the rain, or left it sitting outside in wet weather for some time, will be aware that they can leak like sieves. That's due to manufacturing tolerances. Still, they keep out water far better than they would if those gaskets weren't fitted.

If you want a waterproof camera, look for something with the relevant IP ("Ingress Protection") rating. So far as I'm aware, though, you won't find a single interchangeable lens camera with such a rating.

We can see from several users, there are plenty of weather resistance success stories. I provided an account of one of mine in a thread full of them, some months back...
05-21-2018, 02:02 AM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
No, that's simply inaccurate.
.
And I ask again,
to finally ANSWER ON THAT.

--

what means WEATHER RESISTANCE.

I want facts
05-21-2018, 02:06 AM - 1 Like   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by panonski Quote
And I ask again,
to finally ANSWER ON THAT.

--

what means WEATHER RESISTANCE.

I want facts
I've just given you the facts - the construction technique and the gaskets. I'm sorry, I don't know how to make that any simpler.

I think what you're looking for is specifications for weather resistance. That's like an "IP" rating, and you're not going to get that for ANY camera, weather resistant or not. Just like a raincoat manufacturer doesn't give you specifications on how wet you will or won't get if you go out in the rain.
05-21-2018, 02:17 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I think what you're looking for is specifications for weather resistance. That's like an "IP" rating, and you're not going to get that for ANY camera
so,

it's marketing . There is no any proof, your camera can handle rain, and certainly many camera can handle the rain, WR or not.

But,

If someone put the word RESISTANCE, how far is that resistance ?

Slightly raining ?
Slightly snowing?
Heavy rain ?


WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

If manufacturer itself cannot know such - then weather resistance is just marketing.

Maybe the camera is assembled with more secure points,

but that still does not mean anything. Many cameras are well sealed, even ones which are not heavily promoted as weather resistance.

I want the truth here.

and the truth is - there is no any scientific evidence - how much rain, dust, fog, snow, or low and high tempuratures your camera can handle
.

So label, WR, does not mean anything,

and for many users ( including myself ) is just better to not believe in such, obviously, only marketing term.
05-21-2018, 02:25 AM - 3 Likes   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by panonski Quote
So label, WR, does not mean anything,
As I already explained, it means that certain measures have been taken to reduce the chance of water and dust ingress - namely, interlocking body parts and numerous gaskets.

This is where the gaskets are on the K-5, as an example:



If you don't believe that illustration, take a WR camera apart and you'll see how the parts lock together, and the gaskets. At least you'll then know for sure that they exist, even if you question the value of them.

Here's an example (from a real user) of how those weather resistant measures can help:



But there are no guarantees that every copy of that camera will withstand the same abuse.

I don't believe you'll ever acknowledge there's any value to Pentax weather resistance measures. Ricoh clearly thinks so, otherwise it wouldn't have included them in the camera designs.

I'll step out of this discussion now and leave you to it
05-21-2018, 02:30 AM - 2 Likes   #74
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The major issue here for me is this...yet again the presence of water damage is used as an excuse not to honour the warranty, but the possibility of faulty seals has not been mentioned.

The seals are an integral part of the product - part of what you PAY for. If a seal fails through workmanship or materials faults, that is a failure of the product and the fault (and subsequent damage) should be rectified. It is like a faulty battery causing a fire and then the company refusing to fix the problem, because fire damage is not covered...and then forum members rush to their defence saying the user must have put a match to it.

Last edited by BigMackCam; 05-21-2018 at 02:38 AM.
05-21-2018, 02:36 AM   #75
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dear Big Mack Cam,

I know everything that you post already.

But I simply want more scientific measuring.

If I put on my wristwatch some rubber, and hardly taped it with plastic band,

does that mean it's weather resitance ?

NO.

For such claim, there should be facts behind, and you know - FACTS ARE - SCIENTIFIC REASEARCH AND MEASURING
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