[Evie]

Interesting feedback.

My KP doesn't see a high end use as mine is more of a backup and second shooter to my K-1 (when I do events that call for dual wielding). I believe the heat error will be directly related to the Live View screen, because in Movie mode and recording you have the screen on all the time and cannot turn it off, and I got the message after 25min recording of a video shot inside my house (though it was Summer here at the time so inside house temps could of actually been very high, 30-35 degrees etc).

If you were shooting LV mostly, and toggling the screen on and off for over 30-60mins I could see that this might result in a similar level of heat compared to a single long 25min shoot.

Up until recently I haven't used LV for shooting that much, typically using the OVF (except for those 'above crowd' shots like what you might have been doing), however recently I have found MF mode in LV to being excellent so have started shooting in LV a lot more (tho this extends to really just the K-1).

I might start shooting the KP more in LV and report back, sometime later in the year when things heat up (it's Winter here currently). I'd be interested to know if a battery swap helps or not...

I'm quite surprised to hear your feedback regarding noise and being more content with video than stills, typically people report the exact opposite! The KP is supposed to be one of the better noise suppressing Pentax cameras out there, on par with the K-1mkii!

I take it you're familiar with all the options and methods to shoot with lower ISO and have Noise Reduction on etc?

I did talk with some people who said they got the overheating error in K3 and other models, mostly because of Live View Screen.

I did use high ISO for the images I am not happy with - 64000 and so. After that I lowered it (I was shooting some in Rodeo, so I had to do short exposures, but the lens was not too bright and it looks it was a bit dark in arena (though it did not feel so), thus tried various higher ISO. While the image not cropped, it looks quite reasonable, but when cropped - I am not happy. Oh well, lesson learned, don't raise ISO too much on high action situations (haven't tried with astro yet).


The noise is from RAW, where noise reduction features do not work, though I still need to experiment on different features (I have this camera for less than a month, my K30 got the standard aperture failure and this was urgent buy before trip), and I did not have time to spend time on it, as my last 2+ months were crazy busy.

[BruceBanner]

I would also like to hear the setup for video that yields the best results and what lenses were used also.
I figure it is better to know, just in case before I may need to shoot a little video.

Essentially the narrower FoV focal lengths produce better quality is the main point. I don't understand it that much but I think it's to do with bit rates being overly stretched on wider angle lenses and the quality looks naff, but with something more narrower such as a 85 or 100mm the quality seems higher.

I did talk with some people who said they got the overheating error in K3 and other models, mostly because of Live View Screen.

I did use high ISO for the images I am not happy with - 64000 and so. After that I lowered it (I was shooting some in Rodeo, so I had to do short exposures, but the lens was not too bright and it looks it was a bit dark in arena (though it did not feel so), thus tried various higher ISO. While the image not cropped, it looks quite reasonable, but when cropped - I am not happy. Oh well, lesson learned, don't raise ISO too much on high action situations (haven't tried with astro yet).


The noise is from RAW, where noise reduction features do not work, though I still need to experiment on different features (I have this camera for less than a month, my K30 got the standard aperture failure and this was urgent buy before trip), and I did not have time to spend time on it, as my last 2+ months were crazy busy.

KP+FA50, 1/60, f2.5, ISO 6400 (in hindsight I should have shot f2 or 1.8, prolly produce a more interesting DoF as well as lowering ISO. I wouldn't want to drop below 1/60 in a concert tho).

Comaparison shot with the K-1, same venue, same band, same night.

K-1+DFA100, 1/125, f2.8, ISO 6400


I think you'll agree the KP kept up with the K-1 for noise levels, perhaps even surpassed it!

What I have noticed about Noise is that some situations show it up more than others. I've taken ISO 800 at times and couldn't have told the difference between that and 100, and other times a 1600 feels closer to looking like 6400. It seems that the level of noise shown up depends a lot on the environment taken, how close to the subject, lighting, focal lengths etc. Perhaps the Rodeo event was just one of those events that 6400 ISO looked not so great?
But I would also look to doing the bare minimum cropping of higher ISO images, if you can't get there with the lens attached, change lens rather than crop imo (especially so for higher ISO shooting).

[KDD]

Not KP Only. All camera DSLR got heat by videos. Natural nothing. Not same camorders.

[Evie]

Essentially the narrower FoV focal lengths produce better quality is the main point. I don't understand it that much but I think it's to do with bit rates being overly stretched on wider angle lenses and the quality looks naff, but with something more narrower such as a 85 or 100mm the quality seems higher.




KP+FA50, 1/60, f2.5, ISO 6400 (in hindsight I should have shot f2 or 1.8, prolly produce a more interesting DoF as well as lowering ISO. I wouldn't want to drop below 1/60 in a concert tho).

Comaparison shot with the K-1, same venue, same band, same night.

K-1+DFA100, 1/125, f2.8, ISO 6400


I think you'll agree the KP kept up with the K-1 for noise levels, perhaps even surpassed it!

What I have noticed about Noise is that some situations show it up more than others. I've taken ISO 800 at times and couldn't have told the difference between that and 100, and other times a 1600 feels closer to looking like 6400. It seems that the level of noise shown up depends a lot on the environment taken, how close to the subject, lighting, focal lengths etc. Perhaps the Rodeo event was just one of those events that 6400 ISO looked not so great?
But I would also look to doing the bare minimum cropping of higher ISO images, if you can't get there with the lens attached, change lens rather than crop imo (especially so for higher ISO shooting).

Please note that I said ISO 64 000, and not 6 400 (just clarified: it is 60 000, not 64 000, I am sorry for this mistake). Still, it is around 10x higher ISO.

[BruceBanner]

Please note that I said ISO 64 000, and not 6 400 (just clarified: it is 60 000, not 64 000, I am sorry for this mistake). Still, it is around 10x higher ISO.

Ahaha, my bad!

Honestly I never shoot higher than 6400, I deliberately put a cap on 6400 as my max in any Auto setting shooting situation. My feeling is if you can shoot at a rock concert in dim mixed lighting and pull off respectable images, going any higher is probably 'user error'. I deliberately use commas there because it may be my ignorance but in my 2-3yrs shooting thus far I cannot fathom a situation that required an ISO higher than 6400. I can suffer in other ways such as shutter speed, aperture etc. But I wasn't at your event, I can imagine 1/60th isn't going to cut it, and if I was using something like a K200/4 I no doubt would be shooting at 12800 or more, I've just never been placed in that situation yet. 60,000 does seem very very high however.
If I'm not mistaken the K-1mkii and KP are supposed to be excellent in the low noise department, however it's a curve and the best low noise experience might happen between 800-6400 etc, higher than this and the noise becomes as bad as anything else.

[Evie]

Ahaha, my bad!

Honestly I never shoot higher than 6400, I deliberately put a cap on 6400 as my max in any Auto setting shooting situation. My feeling is if you can shoot at a rock concert in dim mixed lighting and pull off respectable images, going any higher is probably 'user error'. I deliberately use commas there because it may be my ignorance but in my 2-3yrs shooting thus far I cannot fathom a situation that required an ISO higher than 6400. I can suffer in other ways such as shutter speed, aperture etc. But I wasn't at your event, I can imagine 1/60th isn't going to cut it, and if I was using something like a K200/4 I no doubt would be shooting at 12800 or more, I've just never been placed in that situation yet. 60,000 does seem very very high however.
If I'm not mistaken the K-1mkii and KP are supposed to be excellent in the low noise department, however it's a curve and the best low noise experience might happen between 800-6400 etc, higher than this and the noise becomes as bad as anything else.

Yes, my shutter speed had to be high. I did several images and then switched to lower, but still interesting to see. As I said, when not cropped, it is semi-reasonable, crop is a bit worse. Here is RAW MyAirBridge.com | Send or share big files up to 20 GiB for free (will be removed in a day)

[BruceBanner]

Yes, my shutter speed had to be high. I did several images and then switched to lower, but still interesting to see. As I said, when not cropped, it is semi-reasonable, crop is a bit worse. Here is RAW MyAirBridge.com | Send or share big files up to 20 GiB for free (will be removed in a day)

Ok, dled the file and had a peep. Are you ready for Bruce's top tips!?

1) 1/2000 seems a tad high, it might be within the recommended parameters but for horsey stuff you can shoot as low as 1/250 and still get acceptable shots. That would make a huge difference in terms of noise. What I want with action/sport shots is some kind of blur or motion movement to give a sense of scene, rather than completely static. Blur can be introduced from panning the camera as you shoot at lower shutter speeds, or perhaps just getting that shutter speed at a good place so that the horsey's legs have motion but the rider and horsey head are static. Trying to capture some motion in the shot means hanging around the lower shutter speeds which means typically more errors and mistakes, you have to spam a few but in the process a few will come out just right (not unlike concert shooting whereby a good degree of spamming is necessary, you'll capture some with too much blur in the wrong place and others where their is a teeny bit of blur somewhere interesting (guitar swinging, or hand strumming) but the head is static (important parts etc). The good news is lower the shutter speed better the ISO

2) F4.5 seems a tad high for tricky low light situations, typically I would aim for shooting as wide as possible on that lens, or a couple of stops narrower than widest (to get better sharpness). The was you will also separate the horsey from the crowd (better more dynamic DoF), and thus also improve lower noise.

3) 31mm seems quite wide for choice, you've captured a lot of the venue. A 50mm may have taken you closer to the subject (negating cropping need) and I usually find 50mms to have nice wide apertures (f1.4-1.8 etc), and can be had for really cheap! The DA50/1.8 is a bargain lens imo.
With the 31mm like this, I would be tempted to take a monopod and try for a very low shutter speed shot, something like 1/4 or 0.3, the aim here is to have some venue blur where you want it (horsey blurred) but venue and crowed relatively static and sharp, and with a low ISO.

4) Your EV is marked at 0. I typically have all my modes set to a EV of -0.7 or -0.1, this means the shots are slightly underexposed, however I get a lower ISO, and during post processing can improve the shadows and exposure to compensate if need be. I would argue Pentax cameras over expose images (for landscape stuff you run a higher risk of blowing out the cloud highlights), shadows and darker areas are far more easily recovered and with Pentax cameras far easier than other brands to recover! Take full advantage of the Pentax system, it has an incredibly powerful dynamic range. You could shoot -0.1.3-1.7 EV and almost get a black screen when chimping and checking the Review on the Live View Playback, but rest assured in post processing the image can easily be corrected and with a fantastic low noise! (google ISO Variance and ETTL (Exposing To The Left).

5) Finally, refer to this sheet when looking for guidance on settings and values to try, beholder3 is excellent at this sort of thing, I quite often refer his guidelines for certain shooting conditions;

[Evie]

Ok, dled the file and had a peep. Are you ready for Bruce's top tips!?

1) 1/2000 seems a tad high, it might be within the recommended parameters but for horsey stuff you can shoot as low as 1/250 and still get acceptable shots. That would make a huge difference in terms of noise. What I want with action/sport shots is some kind of blur or motion movement to give a sense of scene, rather than completely static. Blur can be introduced from panning the camera as you shoot at lower shutter speeds, or perhaps just getting that shutter speed at a good place so that the horsey's legs have motion but the rider and horsey head are static. Trying to capture some motion in the shot means hanging around the lower shutter speeds which means typically more errors and mistakes, you have to spam a few but in the process a few will come out just right (not unlike concert shooting whereby a good degree of spamming is necessary, you'll capture some with too much blur in the wrong place and others where their is a teeny bit of blur somewhere interesting (guitar swinging, or hand strumming) but the head is static (important parts etc). The good news is lower the shutter speed better the ISO

2) F4.5 seems a tad high for tricky low light situations, typically I would aim for shooting as wide as possible on that lens, or a couple of stops narrower than widest (to get better sharpness). The was you will also separate the horsey from the crowd (better more dynamic DoF), and thus also improve lower noise.

3) 31mm seems quite wide for choice, you've captured a lot of the venue. A 50mm may have taken you closer to the subject (negating cropping need) and I usually find 50mms to have nice wide apertures (f1.4-1.8 etc), and can be had for really cheap! The DA50/1.8 is a bargain lens imo.
With the 31mm like this, I would be tempted to take a monopod and try for a very low shutter speed shot, something like 1/4 or 0.3, the aim here is to have some venue blur where you want it (horsey blurred) but venue and crowed relatively static and sharp, and with a low ISO.

4) Your EV is marked at 0. I typically have all my modes set to a EV of -0.7 or -0.1, this means the shots are slightly underexposed, however I get a lower ISO, and during post processing can improve the shadows and exposure to compensate if need be. I would argue Pentax cameras over expose images (for landscape stuff you run a higher risk of blowing out the cloud highlights), shadows and darker areas are far more easily recovered and with Pentax cameras far easier than other brands to recover! Take full advantage of the Pentax system, it has an incredibly powerful dynamic range. You could shoot -0.1.3-1.7 EV and almost get a black screen when chimping and checking the Review on the Live View Playback, but rest assured in post processing the image can easily be corrected and with a fantastic low noise! (google ISO Variance and ETTL (Exposing To The Left).

5) Finally, refer to this sheet when looking for guidance on settings and values to try, beholder3 is excellent at this sort of thing, I quite often refer his guidelines for certain shooting conditions;

1. I wanted sharp view, not with movement, though. It was a race, and they took around 15+s to ride into arena, ride around three barrels and ride back. So, as I do not shoot active stuff often, I erred on higher.
2. This was the best the lens could do, I had 18-135mm WR with me, as I did not know where will I be able to sit. I was sitting way too close to get a good view and good conditions for shooting. Yes, I DO want 70-200 F2.8, but... unplanned KP, planned trip to Europe and other stuff... maybe sometime next year.
3. Again, only 18-135 with me, also position not very good one and I preferred to err on wider field just in case I won't catch it (almost didn't)
4. After I put the limit to ISO, the photos became underexposed naturally.
5. Thnx for the sheet, I mostly shoot nature, astro, macro, and not much experience with moving stuff.

[BruceBanner]

1. I wanted sharp view, not with movement, though. It was a race, and they took around 15+s to ride into arena, ride around three barrels and ride back. So, as I do not shoot active stuff often, I erred on higher.
2. This was the best the lens could do, I had 18-135mm WR with me, as I did not know where will I be able to sit. I was sitting way too close to get a good view and good conditions for shooting. Yes, I DO want 70-200 F2.8, but... unplanned KP, planned trip to Europe and other stuff... maybe sometime next year.
3. Again, only 18-135 with me, also position not very good one and I preferred to err on wider field just in case I won't catch it (almost didn't)
4. After I put the limit to ISO, the photos became underexposed naturally.
5. Thnx for the sheet, I mostly shoot nature, astro, macro, and not much experience with moving stuff.

Its hard to tell from an outsider perspective, not being there first hand. My first concert shooting (arguably one of the most difficult shooting conditions to operate under) did not go so fluid, I learned along the way, and I had heaps of reading and studying to improve my work. I too would love a 70-200 but funds cannot allow! Instead I make do with my lovely cheap primes



EDIT: But i'm not surprised to hear you upset with noise when shooting at 64000, but I don't think any brand or camera is going to do that much better at that ISO. The aim with photography is too keep ISO down to a minimum. I think if you followed some of those guidelines I outline you could have easily halved the ISO. or gotten away with a 6400 ISO cap.

[Evie]

Its hard to tell from an outsider perspective, not being there first hand. My first concert shooting (arguably one of the most difficult shooting conditions to operate under) did not go so fluid, I learned along the way, and I had heaps of reading and studying to improve my work. I too would love a 70-200 but funds cannot allow! Instead I make do with my lovely cheap primes



EDIT: But i'm not surprised to hear you upset with noise when shooting at 64000, but I don't think any brand or camera is going to do that much better at that ISO. The aim with photography is too keep ISO down to a minimum. I think if you followed some of those guidelines I outline you could have easily halved the ISO. or gotten away with a 6400 ISO cap.

I have 7 primes, 3 of them are AF, but Tamron 90mm is slow af in AF. And as that was my totally first Rodeo, I had no idea what I will need, where will I sit, and anyway - for me quality is enough. I am not a pro and I am not trying to be. Did some experimentation, turned down ISO after that (I did use TAv mode), so, it is all a good lesson.

[stevebrot]

I did talk with some people who said they got the overheating error in K3 and other models, mostly because of Live View Screen.

Now I am intrigued. I have a K-3 and have never gotten this message. It is only in the low 90s outside, but I am thinking I will go out and give it a try even though such is not the same as shooting in the sun at 104F (the upper operating limit for the K-3).*


Steve

* 40C, the same as for the KP

[stevebrot]

I am thinking I will go out and give it a try even though such is not the same as shooting in the sun at 104F (the upper operating limit for the K-3).*

OK...cruel testing over and my weeping K-3 has been placed in a cool dark place to rest. After 50 continuous minutes of video with direct sun to the camera rear at 92F ambient, the results are in. The test went a full 50 minutes (two 1080P videos back-to-back) and the camera was still operating and operational till the end. At some point during the second video, the high temp warning was raised and was present at end of test. A still exposure was made and the temperature metadata reads like this:

• Sensor temp: 64.4°C (both sensors)
• Camera internal temp: 44°C

That sensor temp is 147°F with 110°F for the body sensor. No, I will not be doing this again. I hate the smell of burning phenolic.


Steve

[stevebrot]

5) Finally, refer to this sheet when looking for guidance on settings and values to try, beholder3 is excellent at this sort of thing, I quite often refer his guidelines for certain shooting conditions;

This is quite cool. I would love to see the full spreadsheet.


Steve

[BruceBanner]

OK...cruel testing over and my weeping K-3 has been placed in a cool dark place to rest. After 50 continuous minutes of video with direct sun to the camera rear at 92F ambient, the results are in. The test went a full 50 minutes (two 1080P videos back-to-back) and the camera was still operating and operational till the end. At some point during the second video, the high temp warning was raised and was present at end of test. A still exposure was made and the temperature metadata reads like this:

• Sensor temp: 64.4°C (both sensors)
• Camera internal temp: 44°C

That sensor temp is 147°F with 110°F for the body sensor. No, I will not be doing this again. I hate the smell of burning phenolic.


Steve

lmao

This is quite cool. I would love to see the full spreadsheet.


Steve

Yeah it is. I find it handy, but I also like to experiment myself using stuff like this as guidelines only, not necessarily the be all and end all. Even seeing things like this laid out in a sheet is educational enough as it is, it's one of the things that motivated me to make my K-1 Spreadsheet that allowed users to input all their settings and save it, for reference later (and sharing). We can all help one another become better snappers through a slightly more indepth analysis than just shutter speed, aperture and ISO talk.

For example, the KP goes one step further than the K-1 with it's AV mode. Instead of being limited with just Fast, Slow or Normal Auto ISO parameters, you can actually specify exactly the shutter speed you don't want to drop below! How cool is that! Why is the K-1 not getting this simple firmware tweak!

I definitely shoot with the intention of capturing the fewest images at their highest quality than more images caught at a 'so-so' quality. I'd be tempted to spam shutter and actually try and capture those horsey's with 1/125th etc, than 'staying safe' with 1/250th/1/500th. I use the same rational with concert shooting, sure I miss some moments with a 1/60th shutter speed, but when it works it works really well. It all depends on how keen you are with the culling process I guess. I have kept 20 shots from 700 taken before