KP and noise reduction

philanker2012 · 10-21-2019, 09:52 AM

We have all seen the claims about the low noise high ISO capability. But, what are the best in camera settings to take full advantage of this. Am I correct in thinking that it is better to shoot JPEG to take full advantage of these settings as in camera settings are not used in RAW.

normhead · 10-21-2019, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by philanker2012

We have all seen the claims about the low noise high ISO capability. But, what are the best in camera settings to take full advantage of this. Am I correct in thinking that it is better to shoot JPEG to take full advantage of these settings as in camera settings are not used in RAW.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the Accelerator chip adjusts raw files as well. If you prefer jpeg images shoot jpeg. That's a great general use (snapshot work flow.). Those of us looking for that one amazing image, and those almost always need more latitude than 8 bit jpeg, will shoot raw, making it harder for every day images, but when you do get that special one, probably a much better result.

But, I have to say, when I shoot my XG-1 which only does jpeg... I can't remember ever suffering for doing so. But then I also don't shoot in tricky max light situations with that camera.

camera settings are kind of like filters. I'd be surprised if there were special filter to take advantage of the accelerator. I would assume settings are altered to make best use of the accelerator for the jpeg setting you've selected.

After all, is the camera has the accelerator chip, why would they put in settings not optimized for it? It's not like you can take it out.

stevebrot · 10-21-2019, 10:03 AM

Originally posted by normhead

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the Accelerator chip adjusts raw files as well.

That is my understanding as well and part of the controversy regarding the Accelerator chip. NR is applied as part of the low-level processing of the sensor output prior to writing the "RAW" data to DNG/PEF or using such for making an in-camera JPEG or TIFF.

Added: This is similar in some ways to the application of long-exposure NR in previous model Pentax dSLRs, which is also applied as part of processing to RAW.

Steve

Adam · 10-21-2019, 11:43 AM

You'll always get the lowest noise by shooting in raw and applying NR during raw conversion or in post. However, the KP's out of camera noise levels are quite low to begin with, so it doesn't hurt to shoot in jpeg either

I've found that default NR settings work quite well, and that reducing the jpeg sharpness a bit helps alleviate the camera's natural tendency to over-sharpen fine details.

Adam
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ghosteclipse · 10-25-2019, 03:40 AM

I always never apply NR from camera as Id rather want my denoise program to handle anything I want to clean up at post. That said the jpegs still comeout so much better than my K5iis. In fact if I have not been pixel peeping I would not have realized I was already shooting at 12800. So I think the accelerator chip works whether you have NR turned on or no. Also I read an article it starts to work somewhere at 3200 when they checked the dynamic range jumped back from otherwise a linear decreasing trend.

**mikesbike** · 10-26-2019, 07:57 AM

Originally posted by Adam

You'll always get the lowest noise by shooting in raw and applying NR during raw conversion or in post. However, the KP's out of camera noise levels are quite low to begin with, so it doesn't hurt to shoot in jpeg either

I've found that default NR settings work quite well, and that reducing the jpeg sharpness a bit helps alleviate the camera's natural tendency to over-sharpen fine details.

I agree, I have found the KP's inherent processing to produce exceptionally fine results right out of the camera.

As to over-sharpening, the K200D had the same issue. The over sharpening actually resulted in overdoing edge sharpness at the expense of blurring fine detail. Test reviewers found that leaving the default sharpening level as is, but setting "Fine Sharpening" in Custom Image adjustments made a substantial improvement in performance. I did so with my K200D and found they were right. I then carried this policy forward to other models- my K-5 IIs and now the KP, both with also improved performance. With the K-5 IIs I was actually able to increase sharpening level up by one more notch over default, as well as setting up FS, without incurring unwanted side effects. With the 24mp KP, while setting up FS, like the K200D, I just left the sharpening level as is for the "Bright" category, which is up one notch by default in all camera models.

10-21-2019, 09:52 AM	#1
philanker2012 Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Salisbury Photos: Gallery Posts: 58	KP and noise reduction We have all seen the claims about the low noise high ISO capability. But, what are the best in camera settings to take full advantage of this. Am I correct in thinking that it is better to shoot JPEG to take full advantage of these settings as in camera settings are not used in RAW.

10-21-2019, 09:57 AM	#2
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by philanker2012 We have all seen the claims about the low noise high ISO capability. But, what are the best in camera settings to take full advantage of this. Am I correct in thinking that it is better to shoot JPEG to take full advantage of these settings as in camera settings are not used in RAW. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the Accelerator chip adjusts raw files as well. If you prefer jpeg images shoot jpeg. That's a great general use (snapshot work flow.). Those of us looking for that one amazing image, and those almost always need more latitude than 8 bit jpeg, will shoot raw, making it harder for every day images, but when you do get that special one, probably a much better result. But, I have to say, when I shoot my XG-1 which only does jpeg... I can't remember ever suffering for doing so. But then I also don't shoot in tricky max light situations with that camera. camera settings are kind of like filters. I'd be surprised if there were special filter to take advantage of the accelerator. I would assume settings are altered to make best use of the accelerator for the jpeg setting you've selected. After all, is the camera has the accelerator chip, why would they put in settings not optimized for it? It's not like you can take it out. Last edited by normhead; 10-21-2019 at 10:03 AM.

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10-21-2019, 10:03 AM	#3
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by normhead I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the Accelerator chip adjusts raw files as well. That is my understanding as well and part of the controversy regarding the Accelerator chip. NR is applied as part of the low-level processing of the sensor output prior to writing the "RAW" data to DNG/PEF or using such for making an in-camera JPEG or TIFF. Added: This is similar in some ways to the application of long-exposure NR in previous model Pentax dSLRs, which is also applied as part of processing to RAW. Steve

10-21-2019, 11:43 AM	#4
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,595	You'll always get the lowest noise by shooting in raw and applying NR during raw conversion or in post. However, the KP's out of camera noise levels are quite low to begin with, so it doesn't hurt to shoot in jpeg either I've found that default NR settings work quite well, and that reducing the jpeg sharpness a bit helps alleviate the camera's natural tendency to over-sharpen fine details. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

10-25-2019, 03:40 AM	#5
ghosteclipse Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 165	I always never apply NR from camera as Id rather want my denoise program to handle anything I want to clean up at post. That said the jpegs still comeout so much better than my K5iis. In fact if I have not been pixel peeping I would not have realized I was already shooting at 12800. So I think the accelerator chip works whether you have NR turned on or no. Also I read an article it starts to work somewhere at 3200 when they checked the dynamic range jumped back from otherwise a linear decreasing trend.

10-26-2019, 07:57 AM	#6
mikesbike Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Southeastern Michigan Posts: 4,549	Originally posted by Adam You'll always get the lowest noise by shooting in raw and applying NR during raw conversion or in post. However, the KP's out of camera noise levels are quite low to begin with, so it doesn't hurt to shoot in jpeg either I've found that default NR settings work quite well, and that reducing the jpeg sharpness a bit helps alleviate the camera's natural tendency to over-sharpen fine details. I agree, I have found the KP's inherent processing to produce exceptionally fine results right out of the camera. As to over-sharpening, the K200D had the same issue. The over sharpening actually resulted in overdoing edge sharpness at the expense of blurring fine detail. Test reviewers found that leaving the default sharpening level as is, but setting "Fine Sharpening" in Custom Image adjustments made a substantial improvement in performance. I did so with my K200D and found they were right. I then carried this policy forward to other models- my K-5 IIs and now the KP, both with also improved performance. With the K-5 IIs I was actually able to increase sharpening level up by one more notch over default, as well as setting up FS, without incurring unwanted side effects. With the 24mp KP, while setting up FS, like the K200D, I just left the sharpening level as is for the "Bright" category, which is up one notch by default in all camera models.