Pixel shift minimum shutter speed

**Richie53rd** · 02-04-2021, 02:43 AM

Ideally I’d like to hear from people that have used and have a good knowledge of the pixel shift and it’s capabilities.
I’m planning to do some London cityscape photos probably mainly evening shots. I was wondering what is the slowest shutter speed you can use with pixel shift and would I even benefit from using pixel shift for this type of photography? Or does pixel shift only work with faster shutter speeds?
Please excuse my ignorance with this matter but that’s why I’m asking.

**robgski** · 02-04-2021, 03:06 AM - **1 Like**

Why not? The best thing to do is experiment, there are so many variables in the scene you are trying to capture that no one could say for sure that you'd be satisfied with the results.

**Cerebum** · 02-04-2021, 03:12 AM - **1 Like**

Pixel shift works at any speed. In the Chris Nichol review he tested it on a building and the results were extremely good. You need a static subject as any movement causes ghosting. Traffic lights may be fun, particularly stopped down. You may get red, amber and green starburst

you need to be super stable. You can shoot at high speeds as all four shots take no time at all but tripods are best.

**JensE** · 02-04-2021, 03:31 AM - **2 Likes**

You need a very stable setup and suitable weather. Anything that causes local changes will reduce the success: wind blowing leaves, branches or moisture (London, right?), warm air from AC/exhausts, car lights illuminating walls, traffic lights changing and thus changing light even on somewhat distant surfaces. So with traffic lights, you may have to time your shots accordingly. Anyway flickering lights at various frequencies may cause issues with the electronic shutter - classic ballasts for street lamp at 100Hz, modern switched ones (or LEDs) additionally at a few Kilohertz.

I would recommend to 'bracket' - i.e. shoot both lower ISO with slower shutter and higher ISO with faster shutter speed. Best do tests with similar scenes upfront and check the results by displaying the motion detection mask with Rawtherapee's motion detection - the most capable software for pixel shift processing that I have come across.

I did have success with fairly long exposures and PS (~10s for each frame).

biz-engineer · 02-04-2021, 03:45 AM - **1 Like**

Pixel shift: minimum ISO settings, shutter speed ideally faster than 1/10th s. aperture f5.6 ( or use Pentax program mode MTF priority), use of a sharp lens (prime or zoom at its best focal length). If no motion, stunning image details.

**Rondec** · 02-04-2021, 03:50 AM - **2 Likes**

I don't find pixel shift very helpful with very slow shutter speeds. The issue is movement in the scene during the photo. The pixels have to match up from one image to the next for it to add something. If they don't, you basically have to mask in the details from a single image in the capture. Typically if you are taking photos that are half a second or longer, you find there is enough movement in the scene to negate any help.

The easiest way to tell for sure is to use Raw Therapee's button to see the motion mask. If you find that ninety percent of your image is green (meaning there was movement in those portions of the image), then there is no particular benefit for that image to using pixel shift.

**ffking** · 02-04-2021, 03:59 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

The easiest way to tell for sure is to use Raw Therapee's button to see the motion mask. If you find that ninety percent of your image is green (meaning there was movement in those portions of the image), then there is no particular benefit for that image to using pixel shift.

Oooh! - I've learned something!

biz-engineer · 02-04-2021, 04:02 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Rondec

The easiest way to tell for sure is to use Raw Therapee's button to see the motion mask. If you find that ninety percent of your image is green (meaning there was movement in those portions of the image), then there is no particular benefit for that image to using pixel shift.

Pixel shift works as a bonus. If there is motion in the scene, you can revert to a normal exposure, nothing is lost. And if there is no motion you get the max possible image quality out of the PS exposure stack.
I'd say, it cost nothing to use pixel shift, except some more time to wait for the time to write the bigger file in the SD cards, and a bit more time to inspect the photo to check for motion artifacts.

**Michail_P** · 02-04-2021, 04:37 AM - **1 Like**

Good advise has been given already, no need to add anything. Sum: need for the best possible stability , avoid moving subjects (and photo-bombs) and prefer fast shutter...File size is a factor. But the whole PS thing is extremely rewarding, especially in landscape and cityscape / architecture photography, where you get the most.

**Richie53rd** · 02-04-2021, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Pixel shift works at any speed. In the Chris Nichol review he tested it on a building and the results were extremely good. You need a static subject as any movement causes ghosting. You can shoot at high speeds as all four shots take no time at all but tripods are best.

I’m only going to be taking photos of architecture at night along the River Thames. Now I know I can use a wide range of shutter speeds I’ll probably experiment and bracket as well. I was definitely going to be using a tripod anyway whether I used pixel shift or not.

---------- Post added 02-04-21 at 05:16 AM ----------

Thanks everyone for the replies. I think I have all the information I need.
Cheers.

**Rondec** · 02-04-2021, 07:13 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by biz-engineer

Pixel shift works as a bonus. If there is motion in the scene, you can revert to a normal exposure, nothing is lost. And if there is no motion you get the max possible image quality out of the PS exposure stack.
I'd say, it cost nothing to use pixel shift, except some more time to wait for the time to write the bigger file in the SD cards, and a bit more time to inspect the photo to check for motion artifacts.

The biggest negative is that it takes, what, 45 seconds to take and process the four images and you have to have a tripod. I don't know that it is a big deal. Probably makes you think a bit more with composition and slows your process down a bit. Maybe a bit like medium and large format photography back in the day.

biz-engineer · 02-04-2021, 08:15 AM - **1 Like**

Pixel shift works best with a sharp wide angle prime lens, that is because wide angle relaxes the aperture/DoF/diffraction limit , plus wider angle decouple any effect of camera motion of light falling on the sensor. My favorite : 35mm @ f5.6 ISO100 + pixel shift.

**microlight** · 02-04-2021, 09:22 AM - **1 Like**

I think you've got all the good advice. My set up is tripod, 2-second delay, ISO100, MTF setting with the 20-40 Ltd at 20mm. A small amount of motion is acceptable as motion correction will take care of that, but as has been said, you won't lose anything as you will still have the individual shots - and they'll likely be better in any case as the camera was on a tripod!

02-04-2021, 02:43 AM	#1
Richie53rd Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: London, England Posts: 24	Pixel shift minimum shutter speed Ideally I’d like to hear from people that have used and have a good knowledge of the pixel shift and it’s capabilities. I’m planning to do some London cityscape photos probably mainly evening shots. I was wondering what is the slowest shutter speed you can use with pixel shift and would I even benefit from using pixel shift for this type of photography? Or does pixel shift only work with faster shutter speeds? Please excuse my ignorance with this matter but that’s why I’m asking.

02-04-2021, 03:45 AM - 1 Like	#5
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,225	Pixel shift: minimum ISO settings, shutter speed ideally faster than 1/10th s. aperture f5.6 ( or use Pentax program mode MTF priority), use of a sharp lens (prime or zoom at its best focal length). If no motion, stunning image details. Last edited by biz-engineer; 02-04-2021 at 03:58 AM.

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02-04-2021, 03:06 AM - 1 Like	#2
robgski Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Shenandoah Valley, Virginia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,793	Why not? The best thing to do is experiment, there are so many variables in the scene you are trying to capture that no one could say for sure that you'd be satisfied with the results.

02-04-2021, 03:12 AM - 1 Like	#3
Cerebum Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Lancaster Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,828	Pixel shift works at any speed. In the Chris Nichol review he tested it on a building and the results were extremely good. You need a static subject as any movement causes ghosting. Traffic lights may be fun, particularly stopped down. You may get red, amber and green starburst you need to be super stable. You can shoot at high speeds as all four shots take no time at all but tripods are best.

02-04-2021, 03:31 AM - 2 Likes	#4
JensE Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Leipzig Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,964	You need a very stable setup and suitable weather. Anything that causes local changes will reduce the success: wind blowing leaves, branches or moisture (London, right?), warm air from AC/exhausts, car lights illuminating walls, traffic lights changing and thus changing light even on somewhat distant surfaces. So with traffic lights, you may have to time your shots accordingly. Anyway flickering lights at various frequencies may cause issues with the electronic shutter - classic ballasts for street lamp at 100Hz, modern switched ones (or LEDs) additionally at a few Kilohertz. I would recommend to 'bracket' - i.e. shoot both lower ISO with slower shutter and higher ISO with faster shutter speed. Best do tests with similar scenes upfront and check the results by displaying the motion detection mask with Rawtherapee's motion detection - the most capable software for pixel shift processing that I have come across. I did have success with fairly long exposures and PS (~10s for each frame).

02-04-2021, 03:50 AM - 2 Likes	#6
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	I don't find pixel shift very helpful with very slow shutter speeds. The issue is movement in the scene during the photo. The pixels have to match up from one image to the next for it to add something. If they don't, you basically have to mask in the details from a single image in the capture. Typically if you are taking photos that are half a second or longer, you find there is enough movement in the scene to negate any help. The easiest way to tell for sure is to use Raw Therapee's button to see the motion mask. If you find that ninety percent of your image is green (meaning there was movement in those portions of the image), then there is no particular benefit for that image to using pixel shift.

02-04-2021, 03:59 AM	#7
ffking Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 6,038	Originally posted by Rondec The easiest way to tell for sure is to use Raw Therapee's button to see the motion mask. If you find that ninety percent of your image is green (meaning there was movement in those portions of the image), then there is no particular benefit for that image to using pixel shift. Oooh! - I've learned something!

02-04-2021, 04:02 AM - 1 Like	#8
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,225	Originally posted by Rondec The easiest way to tell for sure is to use Raw Therapee's button to see the motion mask. If you find that ninety percent of your image is green (meaning there was movement in those portions of the image), then there is no particular benefit for that image to using pixel shift. Pixel shift works as a bonus. If there is motion in the scene, you can revert to a normal exposure, nothing is lost. And if there is no motion you get the max possible image quality out of the PS exposure stack. I'd say, it cost nothing to use pixel shift, except some more time to wait for the time to write the bigger file in the SD cards, and a bit more time to inspect the photo to check for motion artifacts.

02-04-2021, 04:37 AM - 1 Like	#9
Michail_P Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: Kalymnos Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,006	Good advise has been given already, no need to add anything. Sum: need for the best possible stability , avoid moving subjects (and photo-bombs) and prefer fast shutter...File size is a factor. But the whole PS thing is extremely rewarding, especially in landscape and cityscape / architecture photography, where you get the most.

02-04-2021, 05:15 AM	#10
Richie53rd Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: London, England Posts: 24 Original Poster	Quote: Pixel shift works at any speed. In the Chris Nichol review he tested it on a building and the results were extremely good. You need a static subject as any movement causes ghosting. You can shoot at high speeds as all four shots take no time at all but tripods are best. I’m only going to be taking photos of architecture at night along the River Thames. Now I know I can use a wide range of shutter speeds I’ll probably experiment and bracket as well. I was definitely going to be using a tripod anyway whether I used pixel shift or not. ---------- Post added 02-04-21 at 05:16 AM ---------- Thanks everyone for the replies. I think I have all the information I need. Cheers.

02-04-2021, 07:13 AM - 1 Like	#11
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	Originally posted by biz-engineer Pixel shift works as a bonus. If there is motion in the scene, you can revert to a normal exposure, nothing is lost. And if there is no motion you get the max possible image quality out of the PS exposure stack. I'd say, it cost nothing to use pixel shift, except some more time to wait for the time to write the bigger file in the SD cards, and a bit more time to inspect the photo to check for motion artifacts. The biggest negative is that it takes, what, 45 seconds to take and process the four images and you have to have a tripod. I don't know that it is a big deal. Probably makes you think a bit more with composition and slows your process down a bit. Maybe a bit like medium and large format photography back in the day.

02-04-2021, 08:15 AM - 1 Like	#12
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,225	Pixel shift works best with a sharp wide angle prime lens, that is because wide angle relaxes the aperture/DoF/diffraction limit , plus wider angle decouple any effect of camera motion of light falling on the sensor. My favorite : 35mm @ f5.6 ISO100 + pixel shift.

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02-04-2021, 09:22 AM - 1 Like	#13
microlight Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Hampshire, UK Posts: 2,129	I think you've got all the good advice. My set up is tripod, 2-second delay, ISO100, MTF setting with the 20-40 Ltd at 20mm. A small amount of motion is acceptable as motion correction will take care of that, but as has been said, you won't lose anything as you will still have the individual shots - and they'll likely be better in any case as the camera was on a tripod!