AF-C of K-3III is impressive

Kunzite · 07-16-2021, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by reh321

This is a new camera - maybe he is not using optimal setup.
The title of this thread still holds.

I don't disagree. Rather, I'm tempted to agree.
Unfortunately, I was unable to properly test the camera - but my first impression was, this feels different than the previous ones.

repaap · 07-16-2021, 11:05 PM

I think that this has been interesting debate on AF. And it’s capability of finding the birds. Since it does not actually have Bird AF. It has detection for birds and other subjects. What I actually do agree is that algorithms should be updated, since you need to find perfect settings to get best out of it. I suppose that this will be better in future. Although you may not be able to lean on auto AF to take care of things ‘magically’ like mirrorless cameras do it for you. So skill factor is still at there in the mix also learning curve.

Kunzite · 07-17-2021, 12:05 AM

Does it actually work like that on mirrorless? I mean, surely it works better - but up to that level?

repaap · 07-17-2021, 01:12 AM

Maybe I should add that I believe that AF algorithms and performance will be updated, I’m sure of it, as this is still new AF and there is more of possibilities with it than we know already. I’m not engineer and I don’t know why there is not more defined AF modes, so that even with first days of shooting you know how and when you should choose which mode.

Many has found that there is learning curve. But as well any has found out that AF is very good and impressive too..

**Rondec** · 07-17-2021, 02:29 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

I don't disagree. Rather, I'm tempted to agree.
Unfortunately, I was unable to properly test the camera - but my first impression was, this feels different than the previous ones.

I think we need to remember that he is shooting bird in flight photos. These are probably some of the more grueling tests of a camera's auto focus system. Clearly they are both possible with the K-3 III and easier to achieve than with past Pentax cameras.

It would be a mistake to equate lack of perfect focus with BIF to a sub-par auto focus system (I know you're not saying that, but others seem to imply it). I seldom shoot those sorts of images, but my guess is that for images of my kids and my wife's wedding photography, this camera would be perfect. But there are others who have posted plenty of decent BIF photos on the post your K-3 III photo thread, but of course, we don't know their hit rate either.

repaap · 07-17-2021, 05:14 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Kunzite

Does it actually work like that on mirrorless? I mean, surely it works better - but up to that level?

This is what they want us to believe. But even that is not foolproof.

What is a fact with Pentax K-3III: AF is fast and very responsive and accurate. Eye AF actually does work. As well as subject recognition. It is pretty easy now.

Problems so far: you need optimum settings to get most out of it. Problem number 2. Tracking in demanding situations is tricky. As well as using ‘hold’ is not as simple as one would think. Some users have brought up that hold work best when target is moving sideways, nit toward or away from shooter.

Simple things, which does make big difference. But you have to know that.

Kunzite · 07-17-2021, 06:52 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

I think we need to remember that he is shooting bird in flight photos. These are probably some of the more grueling tests of a camera's auto focus system. Clearly they are both possible with the K-3 III and easier to achieve than with past Pentax cameras.

And he doesn't help at all the AF system; rather, he's expecting the subject detection feature to work perfectly.

redpit · 07-18-2021, 01:36 AM

The fact that he got some very good images and very low % of keepers resembles the AF-S usage of K-3iii. That way you have 12 FPS and only 1-2 first images in perfect focus. But he speaks about AF-C so as I told I have to believe him. I have no easy explanation until he reveals his settings. I’m sure there is an explanation because the K-3iii is very advanced and surely very rarely doesn’t track the subject on a busy background. That is previous generations behavior and not typical of K-3iii. You have to try hard or accidentally move the AF joystick from the desired area to loose focus from the subject and focus on the background.

reh321 · 07-18-2021, 08:14 AM

Originally posted by repaap

Maybe I should add that I believe that AF algorithms and performance will be updated, I’m sure of it, as this is still new AF and there is more of possibilities with it than we know already. I’m not engineer and I don’t know why there is not more defined AF modes, so that even with first days of shooting you know how and when you should choose which mode.

My job title did often include the word "engineer". My experience tells me that there are already plenty of options - we just don't now how to set them. Perhaps in the future they will include a user mode - ala "J Limited" KP - that will enable us to make better use of them initially.

capcronin · 07-18-2021, 12:27 PM

Testing the eye tracking capabilities.

**Kobie** · 07-23-2021, 05:48 AM - **4 Likes**

The AF in auto and zone with subject recognition on seems to have been improved in firmware 1.10 from my initial testing. It's not infallible, but it is an improvement.

red5isalive · 08-05-2021, 11:28 PM

Wow guys sorry I lost track on that. Will read your comments

speagles2 · 08-15-2021, 08:01 AM - **1 Like**

Just another BIF sequence. First time trying out AF.C Auto, waited in the garden until a bird flew over - a sulphur crested cockatoo in this case - quickly aimed in the general direction and fired a burst while following the bird. The first pic below shows the sequence as shot - you can see that the bird is pretty small in the frame and I didn't do a great job of keeping it centred. The rest are the same sequence, but 100% crops.

I wasn't expecting much so I was pleasantly impressed when I looked at these on the laptop after. It's not the most difficult task, of course, given they're mostly against the blue sky, but on the other hand these were shot at f4 at 200mm so there's not a huge amount of leeway. Also the Tamron 70-200/2.8 isn't the fastest focusing lens in the world, but it seemed to nail focus and start shooting pretty much as soon as I hit the shutter (which is one reason I was sceptical about whether any would actually be in focus...).

Other than the last one, I'd say these are all pretty well focused, with a few of them, including the first frame, dead on.

Settings were AF.C Auto, Hold medium, focus priority for first shot and subsequent shots, 200mm f4.

**termy** · 08-15-2021, 09:00 AM

Originally posted by speagles2

Settings were AF.C Auto, Hold medium, focus priority for first shot and subsequent shots, 200mm f4.

Great example of just how much improved the AFC is on the K33.

"AF.C Auto", means all 101 AF points "active"?
Or were you using 'expanded area Medium"?

And what was the shutter speed?
1/1600?

**Larrymc** · 08-15-2021, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by speagles2

Just another BIF sequence. First time trying out AF.C Auto, waited in the garden until a bird flew over - a sulphur crested cockatoo in this case - quickly aimed in the general direction and fired a burst while following the bird. The first pic below shows the sequence as shot - you can see that the bird is pretty small in the frame and I didn't do a great job of keeping it centred. The rest are the same sequence, but 100% crops.

I wasn't expecting much so I was pleasantly impressed when I looked at these on the laptop after. It's not the most difficult task, of course, given they're mostly against the blue sky, but on the other hand these were shot at f4 at 200mm so there's not a huge amount of leeway. Also the Tamron 70-200/2.8 isn't the fastest focusing lens in the world, but it seemed to nail focus and start shooting pretty much as soon as I hit the shutter (which is one reason I was sceptical about whether any would actually be in focus...).

Other than the last one, I'd say these are all pretty well focused, with a few of them, including the first frame, dead on.

Settings were AF.C Auto, Hold medium, focus priority for first shot and subsequent shots, 200mm f4.

Nice sequence of shots! I may have to rethink using auto mode in certain situations.

08-15-2021, 08:01 AM - 1 Like	#673
speagles2 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 71	Just another BIF sequence. First time trying out AF.C Auto, waited in the garden until a bird flew over - a sulphur crested cockatoo in this case - quickly aimed in the general direction and fired a burst while following the bird. The first pic below shows the sequence as shot - you can see that the bird is pretty small in the frame and I didn't do a great job of keeping it centred. The rest are the same sequence, but 100% crops. I wasn't expecting much so I was pleasantly impressed when I looked at these on the laptop after. It's not the most difficult task, of course, given they're mostly against the blue sky, but on the other hand these were shot at f4 at 200mm so there's not a huge amount of leeway. Also the Tamron 70-200/2.8 isn't the fastest focusing lens in the world, but it seemed to nail focus and start shooting pretty much as soon as I hit the shutter (which is one reason I was sceptical about whether any would actually be in focus...). Other than the last one, I'd say these are all pretty well focused, with a few of them, including the first frame, dead on. Settings were AF.C Auto, Hold medium, focus priority for first shot and subsequent shots, 200mm f4. Attached Images

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07-16-2021, 10:52 AM	#661
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by reh321 This is a new camera - maybe he is not using optimal setup. The title of this thread still holds. I don't disagree. Rather, I'm tempted to agree. Unfortunately, I was unable to properly test the camera - but my first impression was, this feels different than the previous ones.

07-16-2021, 11:05 PM	#662
repaap Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,242	I think that this has been interesting debate on AF. And it’s capability of finding the birds. Since it does not actually have Bird AF. It has detection for birds and other subjects. What I actually do agree is that algorithms should be updated, since you need to find perfect settings to get best out of it. I suppose that this will be better in future. Although you may not be able to lean on auto AF to take care of things ‘magically’ like mirrorless cameras do it for you. So skill factor is still at there in the mix also learning curve.

07-17-2021, 12:05 AM	#663
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Does it actually work like that on mirrorless? I mean, surely it works better - but up to that level?

07-17-2021, 01:12 AM	#664
repaap Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,242	Maybe I should add that I believe that AF algorithms and performance will be updated, I’m sure of it, as this is still new AF and there is more of possibilities with it than we know already. I’m not engineer and I don’t know why there is not more defined AF modes, so that even with first days of shooting you know how and when you should choose which mode. Many has found that there is learning curve. But as well any has found out that AF is very good and impressive too..

07-17-2021, 02:29 AM	#665
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	Originally posted by Kunzite I don't disagree. Rather, I'm tempted to agree. Unfortunately, I was unable to properly test the camera - but my first impression was, this feels different than the previous ones. I think we need to remember that he is shooting bird in flight photos. These are probably some of the more grueling tests of a camera's auto focus system. Clearly they are both possible with the K-3 III and easier to achieve than with past Pentax cameras. It would be a mistake to equate lack of perfect focus with BIF to a sub-par auto focus system (I know you're not saying that, but others seem to imply it). I seldom shoot those sorts of images, but my guess is that for images of my kids and my wife's wedding photography, this camera would be perfect. But there are others who have posted plenty of decent BIF photos on the post your K-3 III photo thread, but of course, we don't know their hit rate either.

07-17-2021, 05:14 AM - 2 Likes	#666
repaap Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,242	Originally posted by Kunzite Does it actually work like that on mirrorless? I mean, surely it works better - but up to that level? This is what they want us to believe. But even that is not foolproof. What is a fact with Pentax K-3III: AF is fast and very responsive and accurate. Eye AF actually does work. As well as subject recognition. It is pretty easy now. Problems so far: you need optimum settings to get most out of it. Problem number 2. Tracking in demanding situations is tricky. As well as using ‘hold’ is not as simple as one would think. Some users have brought up that hold work best when target is moving sideways, nit toward or away from shooter. Simple things, which does make big difference. But you have to know that.

07-17-2021, 06:52 AM	#667
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Rondec I think we need to remember that he is shooting bird in flight photos. These are probably some of the more grueling tests of a camera's auto focus system. Clearly they are both possible with the K-3 III and easier to achieve than with past Pentax cameras. And he doesn't help at all the AF system; rather, he's expecting the subject detection feature to work perfectly.

07-18-2021, 01:36 AM	#668
redpit Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Greece Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,858	The fact that he got some very good images and very low % of keepers resembles the AF-S usage of K-3iii. That way you have 12 FPS and only 1-2 first images in perfect focus. But he speaks about AF-C so as I told I have to believe him. I have no easy explanation until he reveals his settings. I’m sure there is an explanation because the K-3iii is very advanced and surely very rarely doesn’t track the subject on a busy background. That is previous generations behavior and not typical of K-3iii. You have to try hard or accidentally move the AF joystick from the desired area to loose focus from the subject and focus on the background.

07-18-2021, 08:14 AM	#669
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,185	Originally posted by repaap Maybe I should add that I believe that AF algorithms and performance will be updated, I’m sure of it, as this is still new AF and there is more of possibilities with it than we know already. I’m not engineer and I don’t know why there is not more defined AF modes, so that even with first days of shooting you know how and when you should choose which mode. My job title did often include the word "engineer". My experience tells me that there are already plenty of options - we just don't now how to set them. Perhaps in the future they will include a user mode - ala "J Limited" KP - that will enable us to make better use of them initially.

07-18-2021, 12:27 PM	#670
capcronin New Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Edmonton Photos: Gallery Posts: 20	Testing the eye tracking capabilities.

07-23-2021, 05:48 AM - 4 Likes	#671
Kobie Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Bowmanville Photos: Albums Posts: 1,211	The AF in auto and zone with subject recognition on seems to have been improved in firmware 1.10 from my initial testing. It's not infallible, but it is an improvement.

08-05-2021, 11:28 PM	#672
red5isalive Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Barcelona Posts: 659	Wow guys sorry I lost track on that. Will read your comments

08-15-2021, 09:00 AM	#674
termy Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 1,155	Originally posted by speagles2 Settings were AF.C Auto, Hold medium, focus priority for first shot and subsequent shots, 200mm f4. Great example of just how much improved the AFC is on the K33. "AF.C Auto", means all 101 AF points "active"? Or were you using 'expanded area Medium"? And what was the shutter speed? 1/1600?

08-15-2021, 11:15 AM	#675
Larrymc Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Mississippi, USA Posts: 5,252	Originally posted by speagles2 Just another BIF sequence. First time trying out AF.C Auto, waited in the garden until a bird flew over - a sulphur crested cockatoo in this case - quickly aimed in the general direction and fired a burst while following the bird. The first pic below shows the sequence as shot - you can see that the bird is pretty small in the frame and I didn't do a great job of keeping it centred. The rest are the same sequence, but 100% crops. I wasn't expecting much so I was pleasantly impressed when I looked at these on the laptop after. It's not the most difficult task, of course, given they're mostly against the blue sky, but on the other hand these were shot at f4 at 200mm so there's not a huge amount of leeway. Also the Tamron 70-200/2.8 isn't the fastest focusing lens in the world, but it seemed to nail focus and start shooting pretty much as soon as I hit the shutter (which is one reason I was sceptical about whether any would actually be in focus...). Other than the last one, I'd say these are all pretty well focused, with a few of them, including the first frame, dead on. Settings were AF.C Auto, Hold medium, focus priority for first shot and subsequent shots, 200mm f4. Nice sequence of shots! I may have to rethink using auto mode in certain situations.