[BBooDad]

I wish Pentax would remove video recording all together from all bodies without SCN ( scene mode ) option.
Keep video on budget models but remove it completely from all upmarket ( semi & professional ) bodies.

I gotta say I have fun with video in the SCN modes on my little Pentax Q! On the K3-III, I am intrigued because of how good of video vloggers get on YouTube with other cameras

[stevebrot]

DSLRs are not camcorders, they're most similar to cine cameras, and take their cues from film and TV production - manual focus and exposure, with separate audio capture, and colour manipulation to occur in post.

Yep...only the big-time directors do extended takes and then only rarely.


Steve

[clackers]

Yep...only the big-time directors do extended takes and then only rarely.


Steve

Yeah, even movies that appear to be a single, long take (1917, Birdman) aren't - the editors cleverly mix the footage together, often when the camera shows a door, a wall, the ground, or the back of an actor.

[madbrain]

You're thinking like a noob again.
Even GoPros write 4Gb files to the card. You can't assume that the card in the camera is FAT32 or EXFAT. Or that it won't need to be copied to an FAT32 drive or memory stick afterwards. It's all about maximising compatibility for people.

For cameras relying on an external HDMI recorder it's a different game.

Splitting a continuous recording into multiple 4GB files is fine if using a FAT32 file system. But I'm not complaining about split files. I'm complaining about the camera stopping the recording altogether, and missing frames in the process before it has to be manually restarted.

I'm not a pro, I'm an amateur, and I need long recording. And I am very glad 100% of my non-Pentax cameras offer video recording limited only by available space and battery (or not, if using AC adapter), without overheating, and without splitting any files at 4GB. Just with Pentax could do the same, as the fact that it can't severely limits me. Going from 22 minutes limit to 7 minutes limit is seriously a step in the wrong direction.

[repaap]

Splitting a continuous recording into multiple 4GB files is fine if using a FAT32 file system. But I'm not complaining about split files. I'm complaining about the camera stopping the recording altogether, and missing frames in the process before it has to be manually restarted.

I'm not a pro, I'm an amateur, and I need long recording. And I am very glad 100% of my non-Pentax cameras offer video recording limited only by available space and battery (or not, if using AC adapter), without overheating, and without splitting any files at 4GB. Just with Pentax could do the same, as the fact that it can't severely limits me. Going from 22 minutes limit to 7 minutes limit is seriously a step in the wrong direction.

I do wonder why you bring this up. Besides it is still possible to get 25 Minutes out of K-3III, not just in 4K.

Now I remember the thread you brought up about how good your G85 is compared to...any Pentax camera. It was music you filmed?
Pentax is not video oriented, they do offer it now like this and this is it. Many other brands do offer more video oriented cameras, some call them even as hybrid. Still a proper video camera is better.

I share your agony in some way, as it would be nice if they would get rid of 4GB restriction, if not with SD card, then with external device connected, like USB-c drive or atomos or...but it is what it is. To me, this is still a big improvement. It won’t replace my BMPCC 4K( one of then will be upgraded too), but it will be a good companion to them.

---------- Post added 04-27-21 at 10:19 ----------

You're thinking like a noob again.

The K-1 was for the waist up shot of each speaker, the GH5 for the head and shoulders, one Go Pro captured the room from the front, the other from behind the speaker.



I don't.

Twenty *seconds* is a long scene in any video production.

Even GoPros write 4Gb files to the card. You can't assume that the card in the camera is FAT32 or EXFAT. Or that it won't need to be copied to an FAT32 drive or memory stick afterwards. It's all about maximising compatibility for people.

For cameras relying on an external HDMI recorder it's a different game.

I use BMPCC 4K, two of them and gopro. When I’m shooting bigger project I have to cut it in pieces to get good ruthm and think about angles and better to do it controlled. So I can find field and get them in right order. It would be a nightmare to have one big reel, especially if you needed to get just small piece from middle or 3 for insert or so. Ofcourse there are times when one long film is nice, but this would be also quite boring to watch. It is for documentation only.

When I look many of these YouTube review guys with no script and one camera rolling and they speak as they go, then cut it after. . . It would be good for them and for us if there was record limit. They would have to prepare things better and be more efficient. Just saying.

[madbrain]

I do wonder why you bring this up. Besides it is still possible to get 25 Minutes out of K-3III, not just in 4K.

Now I remember the thread you brought up about how good your G85 is compared to...any Pentax camera. It was music you filmed?

Yes, I record music. I'm both the performer and the recording engineer. I can't really afford for my camera to stop recording in the middle of what I'm playing.
At least my K-1 II has an IR sensor, so I can use the remote control to start/stop it. But I resent having to do so, rather than just letting the camera record for hours at a time, and cutting the footage in post later.
The GX85 doesn't doesn't have an IR sensor, but it will record forever, so it's not an issue.

I share your agony in some way, as it would be nice if they would get rid of 4GB restriction, if not with SD card, then with external device connected, like USB-c drive or atomos or...

Agree. External HDMI recorders are expensive, though, so it wouldn't really help me much, even if there was a clean HDMI output. It would help pros, though.

Recording to directly-attached USB flash device would be OK. But there is little reason why the 4GB limit would apply to the SD card and not external USB device. Firmware is going to be pretty similar for both use cases.

but it is what it is. To me, this is still a big improvement. It won’t replace my BMPCC 4K( one of then will be upgraded too), but it will be a good companion to them.

To me, it's one step forward (4K), one step back (7mn limit). Certainly hard to justify dropping $2K on a K-3 III with that limit.
Oh well, maybe Pentax will get it right with the K-1 III, who knows ...

When I look many of these YouTube review guys with no script and one camera rolling and they speak as they go, then cut it after. . . It would be good for them and for us if there was record limit. They would have to prepare things better and be more efficient. Just saying.

Yes, same use case as for me when recording my music performances/practice.

[repaap]

Yes, I record music.
External HDMI recorders are expensive, though, so it wouldn't really help me much, even if there was a clean HDMI output. It would help pros, though.
To me, it's one step forward (4K), one step back (7mn limit). Certainly hard to justify dropping $2K on a K-3 III with that limit.
Oh well, maybe Pentax will get it right with the K-1 III, who knows ...

I would not hold my breath with that record limit, unless the demand would grow a lot. K-1III will be made photography first mentality too, so record limit will propably be still there. This K-3III is quite compact paggage, so it could heat up actually, that said, even K-1 user manual says it can overheat. I'v used it as a webcam untill battery dies for 2 hour, no problem.


However, there is rumour of more video oriented model coming up(successor of K-70?). This could be the thing for you? I know that I want K-3III for photography more and the fact that it has now accptable video at all, compared to old in any measurement other than max record time, is just great. It does open new door for my Pentax.


One thing they could do would be HDMI output, and this should not be too hard.

---------- Post added 04-27-21 at 12:05 ----------

Vlog #30 ?????? PENTAX K-3 Mark III ?Vlog???????? - YouTube

Interesting video! I did not understand a word. BUT i did give quite good idea of the quality of video as well as also 'jello' which I knew was going to be at there. Now, good thing is that it looks good. Las scene the sky was blown out. What I did not understand was that did he use AF from camera to get AF to his face, or did he prefocus and hold it there.


About jello, it was very apparent when he was panning buildings, but when he was walking and making the vlog part it was not that bad. It was quite nice.

There was some moire. Not a huge problem, but it was there.

nice to see this.

[madbrain]

I would not hold my breath with that record limit, unless the demand would grow a lot. K-1III will be made photography first mentality too, so record limit will propably be still there. This K-3III is quite compact paggage, so it could heat up actually, that said, even K-1 user manual says it can overheat. I'v used it as a webcam untill battery dies for 2 hour, no problem.

I have never run into overheating with my K-1 too. How did you use it as a webcam ?

However, there is rumour of more video oriented model coming up(successor of K-70?). This could be the thing for you?

Yes, the K-70 is interesting to me due to its flip screen, something missing on both my K-1 II and GX85, and from my smartphone as well. But it would need to have 4K and a recording limit >7 minutes. To be honest, a used GH5 would probably fit my music video recording needs best, as it has the flip screen and the IR remote sensor and cable shutter release that are missing on my GX85. GX85 is great for travel though due to its compact size with the retractable 12-32 lens. I'm just not as fond of the photos it takes as its video capabilities.

I know that I want K-3III for photography more and the fact that it has now accptable video at all, compared to old in any measurement other than max record time, is just great. It does open new door for my Pentax.

Well, for some definition of "acceptable video".

One thing they could do would be HDMI output, and this should not be too hard.[COLOR="Silver"]

Assuming the hardware can even output 4K on the HDMI port. I guess even HDMI 1.4 can output 4K/30p at 4:2:0 But HDMI 2.x is preferable. Not sure which HDMI version Pentax decided to implement on the K-3 III.

[repaap]

I have never run into overheating with my K-1 too. How did you use it as a webcam ?



Yes, the K-70 is interesting to me due to its flip screen, something missing on both my K-1 II and GX85, and from my smartphone as well. But it would need to have 4K and a recording limit >7 minutes. To be honest, a used GH5 would probably fit my music video recording needs best, as it has the flip screen and the IR remote sensor and cable shutter release that are missing on my GX85. GX85 is great for travel though due to its compact size with the retractable 12-32 lens. I'm just as fond of the photos it takes as its video capabilities.



Well, for some definition of "acceptable video".



Assuming the hardware can even output 4K on the HDMI port. I guess even HDMI 1.4 can output 4K/30p at 4:2:0 But HDMI 2.x is preferable. Not sure which HDMI version Pentax decided to implement on the K-3 III.

I use Blackmagic video encoder(same I use with BMPCC) Now I have one that can do 4K/60P but it does have apparent lag. BMPCC 4&6K can only output HDMI 1080. I have shot quite a bit material with BMPCC in Full HD. It looks very nice, but I have also shot it BRAW(SSD). Only IF I think that I need to have room for crop or something like that, I'll shoot 4K and then prores, BRAW at 4K not so often(huge files).

From video that I have seen K-3 should be more than okay. we will see what it does max out with HDMI. 4K/30 would be very good, but I'm happy with Full HD if blotches are not there(like K-1 and K-3), not expecting BMPCC quality, but if it is anywhere near and gradeable, then why not.

[Qwntm]

Vlog #30 ?????? PENTAX K-3 Mark III ?Vlog???????? - YouTube

That actually looks quite usable.

[stevebrot]

But I resent having to do so, rather than just letting the camera record for hours at a time, and cutting the footage in post later.

It is not like the limitation was not listed in the specs when your K-1 was purchased. Of course, similar limitations are found on other current model dSLRs too (e.g. D850). The reason why your Panny has no such limits is because it was registered in the EU as a video camera.


Steve

[madbrain]

It is not like the limitation was not listed in the specs when your K-1 was purchased. Of course, similar limitations are found on other current model dSLRs too (e.g. D850). The reason why your Panny has no such limits is because it was registered in the EU as a video camera.


Steve

Actually, I believe Panasonic has different models for EU and US. GX80 vs GX85. The GX80 - EU model - has the 30 minute limit. The GX85 - US model - does not. Neither has a 4GB limit. A 30 minute file in 4K/30 at 100 Mbps takes 22GB.

Agree the 25 minutes recording limit was listed in the K-1 II specs. But the actual limit is 22 mins in HD quality. That's what really should be listed in the specs.

And for the K-1 III, they really should list 7 mins for 4K video in the specs. I hope Pentax gets hammered for this by reviewers everywhere as it is a real shame.

As to the D850, as far as I understand, it can record up to 29 mins 59 seconds in 4K, not 7 minutes. It will generate multiple files, but that's OK, because no frames are dropped, and the videographer/subject doesn't have to manually intervene to restart the camera.
I shot for years with a Canon camcorder that recorded with no time limit, but split files at 4GB, as it only supported FAT32. That was not ideal, but fine by me. If Pentax could record 29 minutes 59 seconds in 4K like the D850, it would be far better than 7 minutes, even if it generated multiple files.

Of course, Panasonic and Samsung have figured out this nonsense of split files, and let you record without arbitrary time limit into a single file, up to the size of your file system.

[jslifoaw]

While I've used the video function on my K1 sparingly, I believe there shouldn't be any fundamental issue with configuring the camera to automatically span files (e.g. 4GB chunks), or allow a custom function to enable >4GB files on exFAT formatted cards. It sounds like a 30min 4k video would be about 15-20GB

I think most cameras use exFAT starting at 64GB, meaning there are still lots of smaller cards where by default you'd be stuck with the 4GB limit because the camera will format as FAT32. This also means most cameras should be file system aware since they can format cards using either file system.

Hopefully if it's not in the current firmware it can be added; whether we like it or not (won't change my preorder), this limitation will get severely panned in reviews.

I also assume it's not a heat related issue, although 4k processing might strain the entire pipeline from sensor to memory card vs 1080p.

[stevebrot]

And for the K-1 III, they really should list 7 mins for 4K video in the specs.

I think they did, assuming you mean K-3iii...

Up to 4 GB or 25 minutes

...per the user manual page 128, assumed to be which ever comes first.

As to the D850, as far as I understand, it can record up to 29 mins 59 seconds in 4K, not 7 minutes.

4 GB limit per file, up to eight files or 29m 59s, though the camera will start/stop recording automatically. (manual page 69)

Are we unhappy with Nikon now as well? FWIW...the 4 GB/30m limit is extremely well known as being a limitation for most (all?) dSLR and some mirrorless cameras and should come as no surprise. In addition, 4 GB in 7 minutes of 4K/30p sounds about right, depending, of course, on quality and frame rate.


Steve

[madbrain]

I think they did, assuming you mean K-3iii...

Yes.

4 GB limit per file, up to eight files or 29m 59s, though the camera will start/stop recording automatically. (manual page 69)

Are we unhappy with Nikon now as well? FWIW...the 4 GB/30m limit is extremely well known as being a limitation for most (all?) dSLR and some mirrorless cameras and should come as no surprise. In addition, 4 GB in 7 minutes of 4K/30p sounds about right, depending, of course, on quality and frame rate.

Certainly not perfect, but recording unattended for 29min29s is a heck of a lot better than 7 minutes. Night and day difference, IMO. One is somewhat usable, at least with a remote control. The other is not.