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05-10-2021, 10:35 AM - 1 Like   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by jdplante71 Quote
I took my K3 Mark III out for a track event with my 55-300 PLM attached. I've attached the untouched photos. I was very happy with the focusing and the hit rate was much better than my K-70. I probably could have done with lower ISO I assumed it would use a range but it seemed to stick to the top end of what I set, I'll need to figure that one out. Next time out I'll set WB to Auto and Exposure to multi-segment. I had received the camera only two days before so not a lot of practice time. Here's the camera setup:

JPEG
Shutter priority 1/1000
center-weight exposure
AF-C Expanded AF(S)
Continuous Shooting (M)
WB-Cloudy
You really captured some nice moments here! The main change I would make is to use TAv mode instead of Tv mode. For example, in one of your images, being in Tv mode caused the camera to decide to stop down to f/18. I shoot wide open or just 1/3 of a stop from it when shooting sports, since separation from the background helps with impact of the image. Being in TAv mode also guarantees that you're using auto ISO and you can cap out the maximum from the info screen. Another thing that is at least new to me coming from the K-70 as well is that you can set a minimum shutter speed for Av mode before the camera starts jacking up the ISO. This is handy because when I am confident in the shake reduction, I am willing to let the shutter speed drift slower. But sometimes I would really rather keep the shutter speed up, and so I have my info screen control panel set up to be able to quickly adjust the minimum shutter speed (or just set it to auto and let the camera decide, presumably based in part on focal length).

05-10-2021, 12:52 PM - 1 Like   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by mtkeller Quote
The main change I would make is to use TAv mode instead of Tv mode. For example, in one of your images, being in Tv mode caused the camera to decide to stop down to f/18. I shoot wide open or just 1/3 of a stop from it when shooting sports, since separation from the background helps with impact of the image.
Seconded. TAv is key for sports and action. In the beginning I tried shooting sports all manual, you know, for purity and all. That was silly. Set shutter speed as high as the light will let you (typically 1/1250th in daylight for me, but you could go higher), maybe stop down a stop on the aperture from wide open (again, if light allows, otherwise go wide open), and let the computer in the camera figure out the ISO.

So far on the Mark III I have the ISO capped at some fantastically ridiculous number like 400k, but yesterday it never wandered above 16,000. And as good as the new camera is at high ISO, you get a lot of fuzziness and pixelization if you use 16,000 ISO and crop to see players standing nearly 100m away. The photo here I was zoomed out to try to capture the sequence of the free kick from just outside the box. Would have tied the match with just a few minutes left, but hit the crossbar.
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PENTAX K-3 Mark III  Photo 
05-10-2021, 03:56 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
Yes, c.a.m. explained that previously. But the manual could be clearer. The OVF section doesn't mention the word "tracking" until the third page, and even then doesn't tie it to any specific AF Active Area.
?

Nothing has changed with what you're calling 'tracking', Thor.

The Pentax terminology for years is 'Expanded Area AF', and anyone using Pentaxes to shoot sports should have already been using that for years!

With the K-3 III, there are now 101 AF points, so you can't choose a single point now, it has to be a cluster of five, as the manual explains:
Sets the AF points to the user
selected five points.
When the subject happens to move
out of the selected AF points after
being focused, 16 peripheral points
are used as back-up points for
autofocus.
This setting is available only with
[Continuous AF].
Note that the Tracking bit in the manual you mention is simply to turn off the use of the exposure metering module for identifying parts of the subject. That's new, it was compulsory in the past.
05-10-2021, 05:07 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
?

Nothing has changed with what you're calling 'tracking', Thor.

The Pentax terminology for years is 'Expanded Area AF', and anyone using Pentaxes to shoot sports should have already been using that for years!

With the K-3 III, there are now 101 AF points, so you can't choose a single point now, it has to be a cluster of five, as the manual explains:
Sets the AF points to the user
selected five points.
When the subject happens to move
out of the selected AF points after
being focused, 16 peripheral points
are used as back-up points for
autofocus.
This setting is available only with
[Continuous AF].
Note that the Tracking bit in the manual you mention is simply to turn off the use of the exposure metering module for identifying parts of the subject. That's new, it was compulsory in the past.
I would have used it in the past with my K-30 and K-3 II if it worked. But my experience after thousands of sports photos was that center point was much better. The Mark III is my first camera with truly functional tracking autofocus.



05-10-2021, 09:21 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
I would have used it in the past with my K-30 and K-3 II if it worked. But my experience after thousands of sports photos was that center point was much better. The Mark III is my first camera with truly functional tracking autofocus.
I think it's important to understand our gear.

I have *never* had problem with Expanded Area focus on my K-1, which will be the same as the K-3 II. It is truly functional, that is how that triathlete's picture was taken in Post 9, below is another. They are centre point Expanded Area, since they are moving irregularly and I am panning, it is unlikely that I (or you) could keep focus on exactly the same line on their costume during those movements. That's where Expanded Area comes in, when centre point strays off the central zipper, the camera doesn't hunt attempting to reacquire focus with a non-existent edge underneath it, instead a neighbouring AF point recognises and follows the zipper.

By contrast, the K-30 does not have the 86,000 pixel RGB metering sensor of the K-3 II so has no pattern recognition.

You can understand that in referring to p62 of your K-3 III manual (I have downloaded it), the K-30 has de facto "Type 2: Tracks AF points using AF sensor information only."

The K-3 II has "Type 1: Tracks AF points using AF sensor and AE sensor information."

Note that the Nikon D500 has a 180,000 pixel metering sensor.

The K-3 III in fact has 307,000 pixels for its algorithms to use.



Last edited by clackers; 05-10-2021 at 09:33 PM.
05-11-2021, 04:51 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I think it's important to understand our gear.

I have *never* had problem with Expanded Area focus on my K-1, which will be the same as the K-3 II. It is truly functional, that is how that triathlete's picture was taken in Post 9, below is another. They are centre point Expanded Area, since they are moving irregularly and I am panning, it is unlikely that I (or you) could keep focus on exactly the same line on their costume during those movements. That's where Expanded Area comes in, when centre point strays off the central zipper, the camera doesn't hunt attempting to reacquire focus with a non-existent edge underneath it, instead a neighbouring AF point recognises and follows the zipper.

By contrast, the K-30 does not have the 86,000 pixel RGB metering sensor of the K-3 II so has no pattern recognition.

You can understand that in referring to p62 of your K-3 III manual (I have downloaded it), the K-30 has de facto "Type 2: Tracks AF points using AF sensor information only."

The K-3 II has "Type 1: Tracks AF points using AF sensor and AE sensor information."

Note that the Nikon D500 has a 180,000 pixel metering sensor.

The K-3 III in fact has 307,000 pixels for its algorithms to use.

I'm happy your K-1 works well for you, but my K-3 II was an exercise in frustration trying to use expanded area autofocus. I can show you countless photos where the soccer player with the ball was fuzzy and out of focus, but the parents and trees in the background were crisp. I had a thread here on the forums asking what the heck I was doing wrong, and after much input and experimentation I got better results with center point only. In any tracking scenario the K-3 II couldn't keep up and couldn't decide that the subject was what I wanted to focus on. Perhaps it was at least in part me and my lack of skills, that's certainly been suggested by the folks who think old school Pentax autofocus is great. But nevertheless, it didn't work. And now it mostly does with the Mark III.
05-11-2021, 07:51 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
I'm happy your K-1 works well for you, but my K-3 II was an exercise in frustration trying to use expanded area autofocus. I can show you countless photos where the soccer player with the ball was fuzzy and out of focus, but the parents and trees in the background were crisp. I had a thread here on the forums asking what the heck I was doing wrong, and after much input and experimentation I got better results with center point only. In any tracking scenario the K-3 II couldn't keep up and couldn't decide that the subject was what I wanted to focus on. Perhaps it was at least in part me and my lack of skills, that's certainly been suggested by the folks who think old school Pentax autofocus is great. But nevertheless, it didn't work. And now it mostly does with the Mark III.
Thor, don't feel like the Lone Ranger. Two of my bursts from Saturday (there were several) had wonderfully crisp trees and bushes. Spot on focus panning. I would have been happy if that was my intended subject.
05-11-2021, 08:09 AM - 1 Like   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by red5isalive Quote
I just had the pleasure to test one in the Monaco E-Prix 2021, just made a post about it with tones of images

Here it is:

Pentax K3-III for Sports (Motorsports) - Test and sample images Formula E Monaco 2021 - PentaxForums.com
Here it is:

Pentax K3-III for Sports (Motorsports) - Test and sample images Formula E Monaco 2021 - PentaxForums.com

Let me add a sneak preview of what you can find in the topic









Cheers,

05-11-2021, 04:33 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
I'm happy your K-1 works well for you, but my K-3 II was an exercise in frustration trying to use expanded area autofocus. I can show you countless photos where the soccer player with the ball was fuzzy and out of focus, but the parents and trees in the background were crisp.
That's user error, Thor - you've let the focus point fall over a tree, which of course is a distinct line!

If you say you only briefly passed the focus point over the fence or parent or whatever, that is what the Hold function is for on Pentax, Canon, Nikon, etc. If you are panning and there will be a considerable gap in the play, that's what Back Button Focus is for, you can resume pressing with your thumb once the players in the foreground cover the light pole at the back.

Sports photography requires technique, there's no escaping it. Shooting flowers or cups of coffee is nothing.

You can see in my picture below there were plenty of tempting lines and edges other than my subject, the skill is to lay the focus point on our target and just our target. And not the dark part of the rider's outfit, either, that's useless, there is no distinct line there. The target would've been the border of the white patch below it, my lens is a not fast Tamron 70-200 screwdrive but it kept up enough at f3.5 here.


Last edited by clackers; 05-11-2021 at 04:39 PM.
05-11-2021, 04:54 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
That's user error, Thor - you've let the focus point fall over a tree, which of course is a distinct line!

If you say you only briefly passed the focus point over the fence or parent or whatever, that is what the Hold function is for on Pentax, Canon, Nikon, etc. If you are panning and there will be a considerable gap in the play, that's what Back Button Focus is for, you can resume pressing with your thumb once the players in the foreground cover the light pole at the back.

Sports photography requires technique, there's no escaping it. Shooting flowers or cups of coffee is nothing.

You can see in my picture below there were plenty of tempting lines and edges other than my subject, the skill is to lay the focus point on our target and just our target. And not the dark part of the rider's outfit, either, that's useless, there is no distinct line there. The target would've been the border of the white patch below it, my lens is a not fast Tamron 70-200 screwdrive but it kept up enough at f3.5 here.
Good thing that the K-3 Mark III is a better camera, to help make up for my lack of ability, skill and experience.
05-11-2021, 09:16 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
Good thing that the K-3 Mark III is a better camera, to help make up for my lack of ability, skill and experience.
Doesn't work that way.

Give me Tiger Woods' clubs and I'm still a hack golfer.

I would repeat mistakes (many habitual) he doesn't.
05-12-2021, 04:08 PM - 1 Like   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
That's user error, Thor - you've let the focus point fall over a tree, which of course is a distinct line!

You can see in my picture below there were plenty of tempting lines and edges other than my subject, the skill is to lay the focus point on our target and just our target. And not the dark part of the rider's outfit, either, that's useless, there is no distinct line there. The target would've been the border of the white patch below it...
Excellent! Focus on contrasting lines is good advice Clackers.
05-12-2021, 08:07 PM - 3 Likes   #28
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From my post K-3 iii track meet success:

I had wonderful success at a high school track meet using these settings:
  • AF-C with Expanded Area AF (S)
  • Focus Hold OFF
  • Shake Reduction OFF
  • AF-C release 1st frame: focus priority
  • AF-C release action: focus priority
  • High, Medium and Low continuous drive mode
  • TAv mode, with aperture set from 3.5 to 5.6 and shutter speed 1/800 to 1/2000

These settings on the K-3 iii produced better results than I've ever achieved with the K-3.
05-13-2021, 03:09 AM - 1 Like   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Doesn't work that way.

Give me Tiger Woods' clubs and I'm still a hack golfer.

I would repeat mistakes (many habitual) he doesn't.
I don't think Tiger is coming back this time...
05-13-2021, 05:29 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I don't think Tiger is coming back this time...
I think you're right.

If ... if ... he was on drugs or alcohol, I'm just glad he didn't involve anyone else in the crash.
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