Pentax k3 mark 3 - bad copy of the camera at dpreview - ??

slartibartfast01 · 06-05-2021, 01:06 AM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

How many shutter makers are there? Copal, Seiko? Same shutter goes into lots of different camera models.

Anyway. Testing a camera on a flimsy platform is meaningless for general conclusions. Cameras may have equal shutter vibration level but vary in frequency and, hence, will interact with the rest of the inadequate systems in an unpredictable manner depending on characteristics of that system (like resonances etc) and the interaction of this system with the camera body's properties. Consequently, the result is a hit and miss affair. Some matches will be good. Others bad.

Finally Richard Butler has said
"We use a very heavy-duty tripod, weighted down with sand bags. We wouldn't commit the amount of time (and hence money) that we do to our studio tests only to cut corners or cheap-out when it comes to the gear we use."
They definitely aren't using a flimsy tripod so what could be causing this blur? If the camera isn't moving is the only alternative that the sensor is moving?

**Pål Jensen** · 06-05-2021, 02:12 AM

Originally posted by slartibartfast01

Finally Richard Butler has said
"We use a very heavy-duty tripod, weighted down with sand bags. We wouldn't commit the amount of time (and hence money) that we do to our studio tests only to cut corners or cheap-out when it comes to the gear we use."
They definitely aren't using a flimsy tripod so what could be causing this blur? If the camera isn't moving is the only alternative that the sensor is moving?

Then there must be something wrong with the camera (SR system). No camera that I'm aware of will make blurry images from shutter vibration when mounted on a heavy duty tripod......

Kunzite · 06-05-2021, 02:22 AM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

Then there must be something wrong with the camera (SR system). No camera that I'm aware of will make blurry images from shutter vibration when mounted on a heavy duty tripod......

Could you make a list of the cameras you are aware of? It would be quite short I guess

DPReview actually got shutter shake with quite a few cameras.
5DS R, D750, D780, D800E, D810, A7R - and likely many many others
In Fine Detail: Canon EOS 5DS / 5DS R In-Depth Review: Digital Photography Review
Nikon D780 Review: Digital Photography Review

**Pål Jensen** · 06-05-2021, 02:28 AM

On a sturdy tripod? I haven't managed that even with a medium format camera.

If you get blurry images from shutter vibration on a sturdy tripod the tripod is not sturdy by definition......

**Rondec** · 06-05-2021, 02:30 AM

I'd probably close the thread. It doesn't seem terribly productive any more -- mostly rants against DP Review or Pentax, as the case may be. Certainly we aren't going to solve if they have a bad camera or if it is some more global issue.

Kunzite · 06-05-2021, 02:31 AM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

On a sturdy tripod? I haven't managed that even with a medium format camera.

On the same support as for the K-3iii.

house · 06-05-2021, 02:32 AM

Again I think people under estimate how fine a blur the studio scene makes visible. In a way it's perverse because very few photographers make use of the finest detail. On the other hand that's where the improvements on 15 year old cameras are happening.

So in other words most people could make due with a 10 year old camera and not notice any IQ degradation. This makes the low iso studio scene irrelevant for the vast majority of photographers. For some it does make a difference.

It is a sign of good intellect and character to know what you need and not fuss about things irrelevant to you.

**Rondec** · 06-05-2021, 02:34 AM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

On a sturdy tripod? I haven't managed that even with a medium format camera.

If you get blurry images from shutter vibration on a sturdy tripod the tripod is not sturdy by definition......

My understanding with shutter shock is that it most definitely can occur on a sturdy tripod and that it's more likely to appear there than hand held images. It can happen with certain lenses and certain shutter speeds. People complained about it a lot with the K-1 and the DFA 28-105 (which I don't own). The only solution seems to be using electronic shutters or avoiding the particular shutter speeds that are problematic.

house · 06-05-2021, 02:35 AM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

On a sturdy tripod? I haven't managed that even with a medium format camera.

If you get blurry images from shutter vibration on a sturdy tripod the tripod is not sturdy by definition......

If that's the case you are either lucky and skip the critical shutter speeds or your lenses, technique, subjects or critique are such that you don't notice it. You can't perfectly cure shutter shock with the tripod. The vibrations can occur inside the camera itself.

**Pål Jensen** · 06-05-2021, 02:36 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Kunzite

On the same support as for the K-3iii.

Well, my camera is in the mail and will arrive next week. I'll put it to the test on my sturdy tripod...
I will be surprised if I'm able to recreate dpreviews results.

Kunzite · 06-05-2021, 02:43 AM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

Well, my camera is in the mail and will arrive next week. I'll put it to the test on my sturdy tripod...
I will be surprised if I'm able to recreate dpreviews results.

Please keep us posted.

Of course, I'm not ruling out the possibility that there's something with the DPR's setup - even though they tried to make it shake-resistant. On the contrary, I think they should investigate it (even if "just in case")

**StigVidar** · 06-05-2021, 02:47 AM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

Well, my camera is in the mail and will arrive next week. I'll put it to the test on my sturdy tripod...
I will be surprised if I'm able to recreate dpreviews results.

Good to hear that your camera is on its way, finally. Reading the latest posts about this in the dpreview forum, it looks like this is a bug in the software. I have used my own camera for two weeks now and I am surprised of how many bugs there are in K-3 III. But there is a completely new menu system and probably a new operating system, too. And I suspect Pentax was in a hurry to release this camera late in april to get most of this sales season. So I think they have cut a lot of corners to get it ready. Some of the bugs are so obvious that they must have known about it when it was released.

house · 06-05-2021, 03:32 AM

Originally posted by StigVidar

Good to hear that your camera is on its way, finally. Reading the latest posts about this in the dpreview forum, it looks like this is a bug in the software. I have used my own camera for two weeks now and I am surprised of how many bugs there are in K-3 III. But there is a completely new menu system and probably a new operating system, too. And I suspect Pentax was in a hurry to release this camera late in april to get most of this sales season. So I think they have cut a lot of corners to get it ready. Some of the bugs are so obvious that they must have known about it when it was released.

Is there a list of those bugs somewhere?

texandrews · 06-05-2021, 05:35 AM - **3 Likes**

So, after multiple complaints and calls to close this thread (including from other moderators), that's what I'm doing. In one way it's a pity, but it does seem to be running out of gas now. Hopefully the next thread about the K3III's problems/issues will have the addition of more user experiences. And less sniping and insults.

06-05-2021, 05:35 AM - 3 Likes	#179
texandrews Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Baltimore Photos: Albums Posts: 3,397	Thread closed So, after multiple complaints and calls to close this thread (including from other moderators), that's what I'm doing. In one way it's a pity, but it does seem to be running out of gas now. Hopefully the next thread about the K3III's problems/issues will have the addition of more user experiences. And less sniping and insults.

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06-05-2021, 01:06 AM	#166
slartibartfast01 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,931	Originally posted by Pål Jensen How many shutter makers are there? Copal, Seiko? Same shutter goes into lots of different camera models. Anyway. Testing a camera on a flimsy platform is meaningless for general conclusions. Cameras may have equal shutter vibration level but vary in frequency and, hence, will interact with the rest of the inadequate systems in an unpredictable manner depending on characteristics of that system (like resonances etc) and the interaction of this system with the camera body's properties. Consequently, the result is a hit and miss affair. Some matches will be good. Others bad. Finally Richard Butler has said "We use a very heavy-duty tripod, weighted down with sand bags. We wouldn't commit the amount of time (and hence money) that we do to our studio tests only to cut corners or cheap-out when it comes to the gear we use." They definitely aren't using a flimsy tripod so what could be causing this blur? If the camera isn't moving is the only alternative that the sensor is moving?

06-05-2021, 02:12 AM	#167
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by slartibartfast01 Finally Richard Butler has said "We use a very heavy-duty tripod, weighted down with sand bags. We wouldn't commit the amount of time (and hence money) that we do to our studio tests only to cut corners or cheap-out when it comes to the gear we use." They definitely aren't using a flimsy tripod so what could be causing this blur? If the camera isn't moving is the only alternative that the sensor is moving? Then there must be something wrong with the camera (SR system). No camera that I'm aware of will make blurry images from shutter vibration when mounted on a heavy duty tripod......

06-05-2021, 02:22 AM	#168
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Pål Jensen Then there must be something wrong with the camera (SR system). No camera that I'm aware of will make blurry images from shutter vibration when mounted on a heavy duty tripod...... Could you make a list of the cameras you are aware of? It would be quite short I guess DPReview actually got shutter shake with quite a few cameras. 5DS R, D750, D780, D800E, D810, A7R - and likely many many others In Fine Detail: Canon EOS 5DS / 5DS R In-Depth Review: Digital Photography Review Nikon D780 Review: Digital Photography Review

06-05-2021, 02:28 AM	#169
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	On a sturdy tripod? I haven't managed that even with a medium format camera. If you get blurry images from shutter vibration on a sturdy tripod the tripod is not sturdy by definition......

06-05-2021, 02:30 AM	#170
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	I'd probably close the thread. It doesn't seem terribly productive any more -- mostly rants against DP Review or Pentax, as the case may be. Certainly we aren't going to solve if they have a bad camera or if it is some more global issue.

06-05-2021, 02:31 AM	#171
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Pål Jensen On a sturdy tripod? I haven't managed that even with a medium format camera. On the same support as for the K-3iii.

06-05-2021, 02:32 AM	#172
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	Again I think people under estimate how fine a blur the studio scene makes visible. In a way it's perverse because very few photographers make use of the finest detail. On the other hand that's where the improvements on 15 year old cameras are happening. So in other words most people could make due with a 10 year old camera and not notice any IQ degradation. This makes the low iso studio scene irrelevant for the vast majority of photographers. For some it does make a difference. It is a sign of good intellect and character to know what you need and not fuss about things irrelevant to you.

06-05-2021, 02:34 AM	#173
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	Originally posted by Pål Jensen On a sturdy tripod? I haven't managed that even with a medium format camera. If you get blurry images from shutter vibration on a sturdy tripod the tripod is not sturdy by definition...... My understanding with shutter shock is that it most definitely can occur on a sturdy tripod and that it's more likely to appear there than hand held images. It can happen with certain lenses and certain shutter speeds. People complained about it a lot with the K-1 and the DFA 28-105 (which I don't own). The only solution seems to be using electronic shutters or avoiding the particular shutter speeds that are problematic.

06-05-2021, 02:35 AM	#174
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	Originally posted by Pål Jensen On a sturdy tripod? I haven't managed that even with a medium format camera. If you get blurry images from shutter vibration on a sturdy tripod the tripod is not sturdy by definition...... If that's the case you are either lucky and skip the critical shutter speeds or your lenses, technique, subjects or critique are such that you don't notice it. You can't perfectly cure shutter shock with the tripod. The vibrations can occur inside the camera itself.

06-05-2021, 02:36 AM - 2 Likes	#175
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by Kunzite On the same support as for the K-3iii. Well, my camera is in the mail and will arrive next week. I'll put it to the test on my sturdy tripod... I will be surprised if I'm able to recreate dpreviews results.

06-05-2021, 02:43 AM	#176
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Pål Jensen Well, my camera is in the mail and will arrive next week. I'll put it to the test on my sturdy tripod... I will be surprised if I'm able to recreate dpreviews results. Please keep us posted. Of course, I'm not ruling out the possibility that there's something with the DPR's setup - even though they tried to make it shake-resistant. On the contrary, I think they should investigate it (even if "just in case")

06-05-2021, 02:47 AM	#177
StigVidar Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 705	Originally posted by Pål Jensen Well, my camera is in the mail and will arrive next week. I'll put it to the test on my sturdy tripod... I will be surprised if I'm able to recreate dpreviews results. Good to hear that your camera is on its way, finally. Reading the latest posts about this in the dpreview forum, it looks like this is a bug in the software. I have used my own camera for two weeks now and I am surprised of how many bugs there are in K-3 III. But there is a completely new menu system and probably a new operating system, too. And I suspect Pentax was in a hurry to release this camera late in april to get most of this sales season. So I think they have cut a lot of corners to get it ready. Some of the bugs are so obvious that they must have known about it when it was released.

06-05-2021, 03:32 AM	#178
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	Originally posted by StigVidar Good to hear that your camera is on its way, finally. Reading the latest posts about this in the dpreview forum, it looks like this is a bug in the software. I have used my own camera for two weeks now and I am surprised of how many bugs there are in K-3 III. But there is a completely new menu system and probably a new operating system, too. And I suspect Pentax was in a hurry to release this camera late in april to get most of this sales season. So I think they have cut a lot of corners to get it ready. Some of the bugs are so obvious that they must have known about it when it was released. Is there a list of those bugs somewhere?