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06-02-2021, 12:13 PM - 1 Like   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
.........Let's be honest, none but the truly uninformed might use DPR as their primary reference when researching Pentax gear
They are going to buy Sony anyway.

06-02-2021, 01:27 PM - 1 Like   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
If they used electronic shutter mode for the D780, why did they not publish the single image they extracted from the K-3 III PixelShift shot?
Probably because the K-3iii does not support electronic shutter for regular shooting (i.e. as compared to hacking a pixel-shift RAW to get such). When I realized the feature was missing on the K-3iii, I shook my head and muttered, "There will be hell to pay when the shutter shock boys get their hands on this one."

I still think that there is an issue with camera mounting that is a traceable cause, either at the QR plate or its attachment to their macro rail.

BTW...as for the comments above by various members regarding poor quality of old design Pentax glass; I shoot a lot of vintage glass on my K-3, but don't get soft-at-center results such as in the DPR shots with any lens that even approaches the DA* 55/2.8 macro in overall performance.


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 06-02-2021 at 01:30 PM. Reason: word was MIA
06-02-2021, 03:18 PM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
BTW...as for the comments above by various members regarding poor quality of old design Pentax glass; I shoot a lot of vintage glass on my K-3, but don't get soft-at-center results such as in the DPR shots with any lens that even approaches the DA* 55/2.8 macro in overall performance.
Some folks want every lens to perform like the D FA* 50/1.4. Most of us just want nice colours and contrast, good flare resistance, pleasant rendering and decent (not surgical) sharpness. There isn't a single Pentax lens I own - including the entire HD DA Limited range - that I wouldn't happily buy again. They're all capable of better results in the frame centre than DPR's ISO 100 and 200 shots... even the kit lenses...
06-02-2021, 05:45 PM - 1 Like   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Some folks want every lens to perform like the D FA* 50/1.4. Most of us just want nice colours and contrast, good flare resistance, pleasant rendering and decent (not surgical) sharpness. There isn't a single Pentax lens I own - including the entire HD DA Limited range - that I wouldn't happily buy again. They're all capable of better results in the frame centre than DPR's ISO 100 and 200 shots... even the kit lenses...
Yes we all want great lenses. I have found that my over 35+ years of Pentax product usage that I like the star lenses best, and they have always lived up to the “professional” rating. Even with my K2 DMD, which was my my primary camera when I purchased the SMC A * 400 in 1988. I also had a MX, which I loved to use but the K2DMD worked better with the A* 400. Amazing considering all the negative comments I have seen over the years about the K2, K2DMD. I must have had the best copy ever made, as it paid for the 400 with 3 rolls of Kodachrome 100- 36 exposure in 1989, 5 months after I purchased the lens. I also had the data back, so all dates were imprinted on the film. That was a camera that not everyone would like…I even had a K2 that the exposure meter died and used that to change the shutter assembly [ I did it myself, not easy but doable as it turned out ] on my K2 DMD to extend its life until I finally got a 1ST DS, I did not like the menu of the 1ST D but loved the quiet shutter, but did not get one till much later on, and I still do not like the menu….I still have my 1ST DS, love the TTL so I may never sell it. But the moral of this post is I have never relied on any reviews to judge a product. I will test it myself. DP Review is just a, in my humble opinion, venue for selling things that most everyone may not need. Do your homework and find out for yourself what works and what does not. And yes with no camera stores around anymore it is much more difficult but take your time and do the research and testing…Nothing but star lenses now for my K-3 III….I think its that good, but that is only my opinion…and I have only had it for less than 1 month.. Images from today, just whipped out the camera at some grackles and a swallow and shot away..

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06-02-2021, 07:29 PM - 7 Likes   #110
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Here is a visual comparison to demonstrate exactly what DPR is doing with Pentax images uploaded into their studio comparison scene tool. These JPG's were created using the downloadable K3III ISO 800 DNG file. The first image is the saved JPG with the Image Settings applied by DPR. The second image is a saved JPG by putting the K3III DNG back to the Camera Raw Defaults.





The Image Settings applied by DPR staff clearly lift out a whole layer of detail that is persevered in the Camera RAW Defaults. DPR purposefully made the file inferior to the Camera RAW Defaults and not by a little. DPR has done this applying special ACR Image Settings as far as I can tell only to Pentax cameras going back to at least the K3II from the files I checked with similar results. Other brands DPR only outputs JPG's from each models Camera Raw Defaults. When you open RAW files from other brands downloaded from the DPR Studio Tool they are all in Camera RAW Default. No Image Settings have been applied. Do the same with KP K1 etc they are all set to Image Settings applied by DPR.

Seriously this is a little more than fishy. I have wasted enough personal time looking at this the more I do the more ridiculous DPR looks. It's clearly fraud.
06-02-2021, 11:45 PM - 5 Likes   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
It doesn't looks like dpthoughts' posts are held for moderation.

You don't have to spend a lot of time in DPR's comment sections to sense dpthoughts for what he is: one of the most virulent anti-Pentax FUD superspreaders out there. I've found myself wondering more than once if he has turned his Pentax hating into a full-time job. If you think I'm being unfair in saying this, treat yourself to a quick scan of his comment history, but stop before you're losing your love of photography.
06-02-2021, 11:52 PM - 2 Likes   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rico Quote
Here is a visual comparison to demonstrate exactly what DPR is doing with Pentax images uploaded into their studio comparison scene tool. These JPG's were created using the downloadable K3III ISO 800 DNG file. The first image is the saved JPG with the Image Settings applied by DPR. The second image is a saved JPG by putting the K3III DNG back to the Camera Raw Defaults.


...


The Image Settings applied by DPR staff clearly lift out a whole layer of detail that is persevered in the Camera RAW Defaults. DPR purposefully made the file inferior to the Camera RAW Defaults and not by a little. DPR has done this applying special ACR Image Settings as far as I can tell only to Pentax cameras going back to at least the K3II from the files I checked with similar results. Other brands DPR only outputs JPG's from each models Camera Raw Defaults. When you open RAW files from other brands downloaded from the DPR Studio Tool they are all in Camera RAW Default. No Image Settings have been applied. Do the same with KP K1 etc they are all set to Image Settings applied by DPR.

Seriously this is a little more than fishy. I have wasted enough personal time looking at this the more I do the more ridiculous DPR looks. It's clearly fraud.
I've only downloaded the ISO 100 test shot thus far. Looking at it in Lightroom 6 (which uses ACR), the only changes I see from the default settings are custom white balance (only slightly different to the "as shot" in-camera values), +0.59 exposure, sharpening and noise reduction set to zero. What specific ACR settings have you found that are fraudulent?

06-02-2021, 11:54 PM - 1 Like   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by Madaboutpix Quote
You don't have to spend a lot of time in DPR's comment sections to sense dpthoughts for what he is: one of the most virulent anti-Pentax FUD superspreaders out there. I've found myself wondering more than once if he has turned his Pentax hating into a full-time job. If you think I'm being unfair in saying this, treat yourself to a quick scan of his comment history, but stop before you're losing your love of photography.
I know what he is; he has literally hundreds of anti-Pentax comments, many of them downright lies, those who aren't lies are exaggerations.
DPR has specific rules against what he does; those rules don't matter. Instead, the mods are censoring posts which are perfectly fine, and having Pentaxians put into a "post only after approval" list.
06-02-2021, 11:58 PM - 1 Like   #114
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If someone’s new to Pentax they’ll end up here researching. I don’t think the image samples on DPreview are going to really sway anyone’s decision. Honestly at this point in time ALL of the cameras out there have very similar RAW performance with each adding their special sauce to JPEG. After all these camera’s are all mostly using Sony’s sensors at this point anyway.

What’s more important IMO is the ergonomics and lenses available for the system, and whether you want a mirrorless or OVF experience. Pentax throws the kitchen sink into their cameras for options and I think they have the most usable button layout. I think that matters more than one sites sample collection of images.

A lot of the commenters on DPreview are just going to ra-ra Sony and Canon and everything else is a loser-camera, that’s just what it’s like because it’s a pop-camera site and people like to “belong” in the largest brands fan club as they feel like there on some weird winning team that way. Go your own way and enjoy the great camera they just released.
06-03-2021, 12:14 AM - 1 Like   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
As someone pointed out, he only seems to comment about Pentax, and always negatively. Makes me wonder if it's Rishi Santal....
That's funny - I don't believe it's the case.but the thought had occurred to me also

with regard to @Kunzite 's post - he does occasionally have posts deleted - I've taken to drawing attention to the request that comments be constructive and civil and sometimes his comments are deleted (along with the comment of mine, but that's reasonable) - but it's also true that there are just as many comments deleted for pointing out that he is a Riooh/Pentax-hating troll rather than dealing with the fact that he is.

Edit: - Also, is it a co-incidence that there are no comments by dpthoughts on the highly moderated Neil Buckland piece?

Last edited by ffking; 06-03-2021 at 12:22 AM.
06-03-2021, 02:25 AM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
If they used electronic shutter mode for the D780, why did they not publish the single image they extracted from the K-3 III PixelShift shot?

Publishing a fully processed PixelShift image would not be fair, but they managed to extract a single image from a PixelShift sequence (which is obtained using electronic shutter) so if they compensate for shutter shock for the D780, why not for the K-3 III?

I guess the argument is that while it is easy enough to select electronic shutter mode on a D780, it requires knowledge and extra work to obtain an image from the K-3 III that was taken using electronic shutter mode.

However, unless the D780 images are clearly flagged as being obtained using the electronic shutter mode, it is not adequate to assume that people will use this mode to avoid shutter-shock. They might not be aware of the issue or may be facing scenarios in which the use of electronic shutter is contraindicated.
My guess was that since Lightroom doesn't fully support the K-3 III yet, if you opened a pixel shift image in it, you only get it looking at the first image. Is that not the case? I don't think it would be hard at all.

(Personally, I just use Raw Therapee to extract the single image, but either way)...
06-03-2021, 06:35 AM - 1 Like   #117
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That "Moderator" Mako2011

Anyone else get the impression he's got a bloated ego and enjoys the power trip there? I took a screen shot of this reply on this thread because now my posts are being moderated. All that "moderator" is doing is hijacking a thread and defending DPR grabbing at straws, which to me seems highly suspect and odd considering the mere definition of a moderator is to remain neutral and keep the peace. On top of it, he's bullying people on threads as well.

DPR has become a cesspool.

---------- Post added 06-03-2021 at 06:47 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Let's not exaggerate - we risk running out of reviewers, as Imaging Resource also had front focus issues with their samples

I guess the difference between the K-3iii and the D780 is that they were able to use EFCS for the latter, so the samples were shock free.
Of course, I don't support publishing such incorrect "image quality" samples. Mitigation should've been a simpler matter of avoiding the respective shutter speeds.
If DPR are the kind of reviews of Pentax cameras you'd want to preserve, I'm more than willing to lose them. They have only done more harm than good, probably one reason why Pentax are hesitant to work with them. I would be!

Front focus, or back focus, very common on DSLR's which is mostly lens dependent. That's a completely different subject altogether.

Bottom line here is that Pentax has created a whopper of a camera and instead of celebrating it, DPR are once again looking to find ANYTHING, even if made up, to take the sheen away from Ricoh.

It's old, its tiresome, and its irresponsible journalism. I maintain my position. BB would be demoted at the very least.

Joinson and Askey were much better Editors than BB in every respect.
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06-03-2021, 06:49 AM   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
Well the narrative / conspiracy theory someone has paid for is „mechanical shutter and mirror is bad, you cant shoot proper images with it. buy fancy new sony and nikon stuff without viewfinder instead from Amazon“

Most people who visit influencers like this are gullible enough to swallow it.
Worse is the apologists who get defensive each time someone criticizes their favorite influencer, regardless how poor they deliver.
This issue supposedly comes from the shutter, and has nothing to do with the mirror, the testers at DPR even tried mirror lock.
I'm not saying anything on the test itself, I just wish I had like 10 cameras to test and see for myself (and give back after I'm done )

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Did the studio test operator forget to disable the anti-alias filter emulation in Pentax K3 III menus?
I asked in the comments and they said it was off.
06-03-2021, 07:35 AM - 4 Likes   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rush2112 Quote
Anyone else get the impression he's got a bloated ego and enjoys the power trip there? I took a screen shot of this reply on this thread because now my posts are being moderated. All that "moderator" is doing is hijacking a thread and defending DPR grabbing at straws, which to me seems highly suspect and odd considering the mere definition of a moderator is to remain neutral and keep the peace. On top of it, he's bullying people on threads as well.

DPR has become a cesspool.
Impression?
Obviously I'm censored as well, and I can't find any pattern to what he's considering a "personal attack" or "derogatory". Insults are fine, if directed at me.

But I think he has nothing to do with the review. We risk hijacking this thread
The reviewers themselves are a mixed bunch; e.g. there was that "WaterFAILS" guy, yet Simon Joinson apologized and took the article down. Richard seems OK.
And they're working hard on these tests... we'd better collaborate if that's an option, rather than fight them.
06-03-2021, 09:39 AM   #120
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I am normally vocal on these things but this time I don't see much to be vocal about.

I look at sensationalism, double standard, and questionable methodology.

I don't think there is any sensationalism this time. They had a problem and reported it. If they hadn't reported it, it would be more worrying. I only object to the phrasing of their certainty that they pinpointed the cause.

The only double standard I see is that they used work arounds for the d780 and not the k3iii. They should really have room in their widget for both electronical and mechanical shutter. This might only be the 2nd time this has come up and the first time the work around is problematic so I give them some leeway. In the past they talked about the viewfinder of the d500 with praise and gave the k3iii a back handed compliment. The DFA50 was forced through much more harsh backlight than comparable lenses, and many more but I don't see that here.

The methodology is suspect but mostly by omission. The fact it took delving to find how the camera was mounted, if AA was turned on and how they process the photos is not readily available is not good at all. The fact they process the Pentax files differently without demonstrating it doesn't make a difference is appalling and it is looking like the reason is because it does make a difference. The fact for jpg they use default setting with no calibration is simply comparing apples to oranges. It would be like saying, "Look how different I am to myself in weight when I use two different scales. I am soo much lighter than myself!"

The methodology is a problem for me. It takes a fair amount of work to be able to evaluate the results they present. Yet having this revealed about the Pentax evaluations, I can glean something from what they write about Pentax. The information on other cameras and lenses I now no is useless to me unless I would put in the work to find out how the results are skewed. The Pentax was revealed by many people over time hidden in 8 pages on this thread and many many more on other threads and in comments on the other site I simply won't read or find on the other equipment. That is sad.
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