External power

Unregistered User · 06-10-2021, 06:54 AM

Hi.

If I connect the camera USB-C to a powerbank and have the camera on, will the camera use power from the powerbank or the battery?

**Kobie** · 06-10-2021, 08:39 AM

Most likely it will use the powerbank to charge the battery while the camera is in use.

Unregistered User · 06-10-2021, 09:04 AM

Originally posted by Kobie

Most likely it will use the powerbank to charge the battery while the camera is in use.

Hopefully yes, but I would like to know for sure.

Kunzite · 06-10-2021, 09:16 AM

Originally posted by Kobie

Most likely it will use the powerbank to charge the battery while the camera is in use.

I would try that with a power bank capable of Power Delivery, supporting the same voltages and the amps as the AC-166 power adapter (5-9-12V at 3A)
Unfortunately I don't have the camera.

Kobayashi.K · 06-10-2021, 02:38 PM - **2 Likes**

The English manual on p40 it says in the small print: "If the camera is turned on while charging, the charging stops".

My test:

- When the camera is connected to the USB power adapter AC-U2 (Europe) and the USB-A to USB-C cable, and the camera is off, the self timer lamp on the back is on and blinks every 5 sec, signaling it is charging.
- Similarly when the USB cable is connected to an USB-C connector on the computer instead of the power adapter, and the camera is off, it is also charging.
- When the camera is switched on in both cases, the self timer lamp goes off. It is not charging.

So one might conclude, when the camera is turned on it does not use power from a source on the USB.

P.S. I did an other test with the battery removed. When the USB cable on the camera is connected to the power adapter or the USB on the computer, and the camera is switched on with the main switch, the camera doesn't come to life.

Kunzite · 06-10-2021, 03:01 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Kobayashi.K

So one might conclude, when the camera is turned on it does not use power from a source on the USB.

Not quite. You can conclude it stops charging, but the camera supports the AC166 as an AC adapter.

As I said, I would try with a Power Delivery capable device.

Kobayashi.K · 06-10-2021, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Not quite. You can conclude it stops charging, but the camera supports the AC166 as an AC adapter.
As I said, I would try with a Power Delivery capable device.

That would mean one or more pins on the USB are signaling to the camera that a power delivery capable device is connected instead of a 'normal' connection.

Unregistered User · 06-10-2021, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by Kobayashi.K

That would mean one or more pins on the USB are signaling to the camera that a power delivery capable device is connected instead of a 'normal' connection.

Maybe. Or a battery needs to be inserted at all times. Probably the same as with OTG on certain phones.

Kunzite · 06-10-2021, 11:37 PM

Originally posted by Kobayashi.K

That would mean one or more pins on the USB are signaling to the camera that a power delivery capable device is connected instead of a 'normal' connection.

We do know that the AC adapter is capable of Power Delivery, and of delivering more current than a standard PC USB port (or the weak power adapter included with the camera).

The manual is unclear if you need to have a battery inserted (it does warn against losing power, though) - but a mere 5V 1A connection can only be good for battery charging, not for running the camera.

**DAZ** · 06-12-2021, 03:52 PM - **1 Like**

That is a good question. As I have access to both the camera and a portable battery power supply I decided to investigate.

BLUF answer is no. The camera will only charge when the camera is off. It will only run from its internal battery and will not draw power from the USB went on.

Anker PowerCore Speed 20000, 20000mAh Qualcomm Quick Charge3.0 & PowerIQ Portable Charger. The Powercore has blue lights that give the state of the charge of its battery and that it is providing power to an external device. These blue lights will only be on continuously when it is providing power to another device.
Normal output on both ports 5V 2A.
On both Quick Charge ports 5-8V 3A, 8-10V 2.4A, 10-12V 2A. One port is Qualcomm Quick Charge3.0 & the other port is PowerIQ.

All of the following is the same for both ports.

As I had just updated the camera to firmware 1.02 and it had a new fully charged battery in the camera. With the camera off and plugged into the portable charger the red light on the back of the camera and the blue lights will illuminate for a few moments. The lights will then turn off. This indicates that the battery pack in the camera is fully charged.

I turned on the camera, unplugged from the battery pack,and have it run continuously for about 45 minutes with the back screen as the viewfinder on to drain the camera battery some. Even after 45 minutes the battery indicator on the camera did not even show one bar of depletion. I then plugged in the USB on the camera into the battery pack. The camera had the blinking stuttering red light on and the battery pack had continuous blue lights on.

I verified that it was continuing to charge for about 15minutes. At which point I turned the camera on and the blue indicator lights on the battery pack would then go off. This indicates that the camera will only run off of its internal battery and not draw any power from the USB to run the camera.

I continued charging the camera from the battery pack for a total time of approximately one hour. At which point the camera battery was fully charged and all the indicator lights went off. The camera battery was not even half depleted and it probably would’ve been faster to remove the battery from the camera and put it on its dedicated charger.

Kobayashi.K · 06-12-2021, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by DAZ

That is a good question. As I have access to both the camera and a portable battery power supply I decided to investigate. ...

Thanks. I like your BLUF style, never seen before.

mtkeller · 06-12-2021, 05:14 PM

Originally posted by DAZ

It will only run from its internal battery and will not draw power from the USB went on.

I suspect this would change if you connected the K-AC166, which explicitly enables AC power for the camera.

**DAZ** · 06-12-2021, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by mtkeller

I suspect this would change if you connected the K-AC166, which explicitly enables AC power for the camera.

If you connect the K-AC166 it may actually power the camera as you noted. Somebody else will have to test that as I have no plans to get a K-AC166. I was only interested in the external battery pack question.

stevebrot · 06-13-2021, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by mtkeller

I suspect this would change if you connected the K-AC166, which explicitly enables AC power for the camera.

This was bandied about in earlier discussions regarding the updated charger offerings from Pentax/Ricoh. With the supported version of the USB power spec, it is possible for the camera to discriminate against third-party offerings for any number of features, but whether it does so is difficult to determine.

Steve

stevebrot · 06-13-2021, 02:17 PM

Just a note of caution when testing the in-camera charge feature as well as auxiliary power via the USB-C fitting...

Be aware of non-compliant adapter USB-A to USB-C charger cables.

These are often spec'd as USB 2.0 compliant, but with stated output of 5V and 3A (i.e. USB 3.1 compliance). To supply the latter while using wire gauge and fittings to support the former is a recipe for melt-down. Look for adapter cables labeled with the SS10 or SS20 logos on top of the type-A (flat) connector that designates USB-3.1 compliance.

FWIW...in the trash bin behind me is an Amazon Basics cable that was certified USB 2.0 but advertised as 5V and 3A output. Amazon provided refund, no questions asked and no return needed. SS10 cable to replace ($1.50 USD additional) and I am a happy camper. The wires used in the replacement are much more to my liking.

Steve

06-10-2021, 06:54 AM	#1
Unregistered User Guest	External power Hi. If I connect the camera USB-C to a powerbank and have the camera on, will the camera use power from the powerbank or the battery?

06-10-2021, 02:38 PM - 2 Likes	#5
Kobayashi.K Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Photos: Albums Posts: 716	The English manual on p40 it says in the small print: "If the camera is turned on while charging, the charging stops". My test: - When the camera is connected to the USB power adapter AC-U2 (Europe) and the USB-A to USB-C cable, and the camera is off, the self timer lamp on the back is on and blinks every 5 sec, signaling it is charging. - Similarly when the USB cable is connected to an USB-C connector on the computer instead of the power adapter, and the camera is off, it is also charging. - When the camera is switched on in both cases, the self timer lamp goes off. It is not charging. So one might conclude, when the camera is turned on it does not use power from a source on the USB. P.S. I did an other test with the battery removed. When the USB cable on the camera is connected to the power adapter or the USB on the computer, and the camera is switched on with the main switch, the camera doesn't come to life. Last edited by Kobayashi.K; 06-10-2021 at 02:54 PM.

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06-10-2021, 08:39 AM	#2
Kobie Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Bowmanville Photos: Albums Posts: 1,211	Most likely it will use the powerbank to charge the battery while the camera is in use.

06-10-2021, 09:04 AM	#3
Unregistered User Guest	Originally posted by Kobie Most likely it will use the powerbank to charge the battery while the camera is in use. Hopefully yes, but I would like to know for sure.

06-10-2021, 09:16 AM	#4
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Kobie Most likely it will use the powerbank to charge the battery while the camera is in use. I would try that with a power bank capable of Power Delivery, supporting the same voltages and the amps as the AC-166 power adapter (5-9-12V at 3A) Unfortunately I don't have the camera.

06-10-2021, 03:01 PM - 1 Like	#6
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Kobayashi.K So one might conclude, when the camera is turned on it does not use power from a source on the USB. Not quite. You can conclude it stops charging, but the camera supports the AC166 as an AC adapter. As I said, I would try with a Power Delivery capable device.

06-10-2021, 03:18 PM	#7
Kobayashi.K Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Photos: Albums Posts: 716	Originally posted by Kunzite Not quite. You can conclude it stops charging, but the camera supports the AC166 as an AC adapter. As I said, I would try with a Power Delivery capable device. That would mean one or more pins on the USB are signaling to the camera that a power delivery capable device is connected instead of a 'normal' connection.

06-10-2021, 03:21 PM	#8
Unregistered User Guest	Originally posted by Kobayashi.K That would mean one or more pins on the USB are signaling to the camera that a power delivery capable device is connected instead of a 'normal' connection. Maybe. Or a battery needs to be inserted at all times. Probably the same as with OTG on certain phones.

06-10-2021, 11:37 PM	#9
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Kobayashi.K That would mean one or more pins on the USB are signaling to the camera that a power delivery capable device is connected instead of a 'normal' connection. We do know that the AC adapter is capable of Power Delivery, and of delivering more current than a standard PC USB port (or the weak power adapter included with the camera). The manual is unclear if you need to have a battery inserted (it does warn against losing power, though) - but a mere 5V 1A connection can only be good for battery charging, not for running the camera.

06-12-2021, 03:52 PM - 1 Like	#10
DAZ Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Everett, WA USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 744	That is a good question. As I have access to both the camera and a portable battery power supply I decided to investigate. BLUF answer is no. The camera will only charge when the camera is off. It will only run from its internal battery and will not draw power from the USB went on. Anker PowerCore Speed 20000, 20000mAh Qualcomm Quick Charge3.0 & PowerIQ Portable Charger. The Powercore has blue lights that give the state of the charge of its battery and that it is providing power to an external device. These blue lights will only be on continuously when it is providing power to another device. Normal output on both ports 5V 2A. On both Quick Charge ports 5-8V 3A, 8-10V 2.4A, 10-12V 2A. One port is Qualcomm Quick Charge3.0 & the other port is PowerIQ. All of the following is the same for both ports. As I had just updated the camera to firmware 1.02 and it had a new fully charged battery in the camera. With the camera off and plugged into the portable charger the red light on the back of the camera and the blue lights will illuminate for a few moments. The lights will then turn off. This indicates that the battery pack in the camera is fully charged. I turned on the camera, unplugged from the battery pack,and have it run continuously for about 45 minutes with the back screen as the viewfinder on to drain the camera battery some. Even after 45 minutes the battery indicator on the camera did not even show one bar of depletion. I then plugged in the USB on the camera into the battery pack. The camera had the blinking stuttering red light on and the battery pack had continuous blue lights on. I verified that it was continuing to charge for about 15minutes. At which point I turned the camera on and the blue indicator lights on the battery pack would then go off. This indicates that the camera will only run off of its internal battery and not draw any power from the USB to run the camera. I continued charging the camera from the battery pack for a total time of approximately one hour. At which point the camera battery was fully charged and all the indicator lights went off. The camera battery was not even half depleted and it probably would’ve been faster to remove the battery from the camera and put it on its dedicated charger.

06-12-2021, 04:38 PM	#11
Kobayashi.K Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Photos: Albums Posts: 716	Originally posted by DAZ That is a good question. As I have access to both the camera and a portable battery power supply I decided to investigate. ... Thanks. I like your BLUF style, never seen before.

06-12-2021, 05:14 PM	#12
mtkeller Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Sioux City, IA Photos: Gallery Posts: 938	Originally posted by DAZ It will only run from its internal battery and will not draw power from the USB went on. I suspect this would change if you connected the K-AC166, which explicitly enables AC power for the camera.

06-12-2021, 06:50 PM	#13
DAZ Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Everett, WA USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 744	Originally posted by mtkeller I suspect this would change if you connected the K-AC166, which explicitly enables AC power for the camera. If you connect the K-AC166 it may actually power the camera as you noted. Somebody else will have to test that as I have no plans to get a K-AC166. I was only interested in the external battery pack question.

06-13-2021, 01:27 PM	#14
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by mtkeller I suspect this would change if you connected the K-AC166, which explicitly enables AC power for the camera. This was bandied about in earlier discussions regarding the updated charger offerings from Pentax/Ricoh. With the supported version of the USB power spec, it is possible for the camera to discriminate against third-party offerings for any number of features, but whether it does so is difficult to determine. Steve

06-13-2021, 02:17 PM	#15
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Just a note of caution when testing the in-camera charge feature as well as auxiliary power via the USB-C fitting... Be aware of non-compliant adapter USB-A to USB-C charger cables. These are often spec'd as USB 2.0 compliant, but with stated output of 5V and 3A (i.e. USB 3.1 compliance). To supply the latter while using wire gauge and fittings to support the former is a recipe for melt-down. Look for adapter cables labeled with the SS10 or SS20 logos on top of the type-A (flat) connector that designates USB-3.1 compliance. FWIW...in the trash bin behind me is an Amazon Basics cable that was certified USB 2.0 but advertised as 5V and 3A output. Amazon provided refund, no questions asked and no return needed. SS10 cable to replace ($1.50 USD additional) and I am a happy camper. The wires used in the replacement are much more to my liking. Steve