New firmware and electronic shutter is here

kypfer · 07-21-2021, 04:18 AM

Originally posted by ffking

It's a weird thing - I'm sure I'm just an old dog, but I remember being excited about that tranche of new functionality that came after the K-1's release (square crop, night vision rear LCD, electronic shutter implementations etc) and I don't think I've ever used them. I suppose it's good to know that your camera can do those things, but most of the time we tend to use our own brains, not the camera's, to deal with situations, just by force of habit. Or is that just me?

It's certainly "not just you", I only "discovered" TAv Mode about three years ago, having owned a K-5 since 2014 and had been quite confident that aperture priority was all I'd ever need

It's not just about not being able to take a good picture using the knowledge we've already learnt, but finding out how to make that process easier and maybe taking pictures we wouldn't have even dreamed possible by utilizing the technological features available on the latest cameras

The K-3iii has a seven-figure ISO capability! OK, it's noisy (very noisy), but if you need that "black cat in coal cellar" capability, fit a wide-aperture lens and go for it

Unregistered User · 07-21-2021, 05:42 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by lmd91343

Sort of...

Thanks for the spot.

It tells us how to turn it on and off only.

Can I use it for moving subjects? Fast? Slow? Hand held? Tripod only? Flash sync? Astrotracer? Panning? Subject motion? ...

The list of unknowns could go on and on.

I agree. The engineers have set up a series of specifications and they should, in depth, explain how the users should use and to make the most of them.

Turning functions I do not understand how they work on and off I can do without a manual.
Blindly testning unexplained functions is often a waste of time.

Ishpuini · 07-21-2021, 06:07 AM

Originally posted by Tjompen1968

I agree. The engineers have set up a series of specifications and they should, in depth, explain how the users should use and to make the most of them.

Turning functions I do not understand how they work in and off I can do without a manual.
Blindly testning unexplained functions is often a waste of time.

You could say that about most of the settings as they are described in the manual... As such the document describing electronic shutter is perfectly in line with the style of the existing manual.

**lmd91343** · 07-21-2021, 06:48 AM

This is the page from the K1 mark II:

It is a start.

**snappyhoffy** · 07-21-2021, 06:58 AM

Originally posted by lmd91343

This is the page from the K1 mark II:

It is a start.

Interesting that I just checked and Shake Reduction appears to work (Icon appears in Info Screen).

Can't see how in the world of 'Cut & Paste' they couldnt have created a similar page as an Addendum to manual. (Maybe have to ask them for a job!)

**lmd91343** · 07-21-2021, 07:02 AM

When I was using Canon cameras and lenses, if I had a technical question or issue there was an office I could write or call. I would alway get a quick and accurate response. In the last ten years of my calls I always got the same engineer. Myself and my Canon friends were very parsimonious in using his time, but it was available. Here what resources do we have?

---------- Post added 07-21-21 at 07:07 AM ----------

Originally posted by snappyhoffy

Interesting that I just checked and Shake Reduction appears to work (Icon appears in Info Screen).

Can't see how in the world of 'Cut & Paste' they couldnt have created a similar page as an Addendum to manual. (Maybe have to ask them for a job!)

Staying retired has a nice feeling.

Besides, my baby is getting married this fall and I am a bit preoccupied.

**c.a.m** · 07-21-2021, 07:15 AM

Originally posted by lmd91343

Myself and my Canon friends were very parsimonious in using his time, but it was available. Here what resources do we have?

I think the best resource at the moment is Pentax Forums -- the members of this very helpful community are willing to share ideas, solutions, suggestions, and hacks. However, without guidance or detailed information from Ricoh Imaging on new features and capabilities, we are left to explore, discover, or guess.

For example, I am in the process of working through the various autofocus modes and AF area settings on my K-3 Mark III. The Operating Manual gives only limited information. I've found several very detailed AF guides for Nikon and Canon cameras, which can be used to infer the appropriate settings on the Pentax. But, it's not straightforward -- the AF guide for the Canon 7D Mk II runs 50 pages, so there is a lot of material to digest.

- Craig

Last edited by c.a.m; 07-21-2021 at 10:26 AM.

**lmd91343** · 07-21-2021, 07:18 AM

Originally posted by snappyhoffy

Interesting that I just checked and Shake Reduction appears to work (Icon appears in Info Screen).

Can't see how in the world of 'Cut & Paste' they couldnt have created a similar page as an Addendum to manual. (Maybe have to ask them for a job!)

Shake reduction appears to work. ?!

If SR is available, is the same as the K1?

If distortion can be produced by moving objects and a still sensor,
What is produced by a moving sensor caused by SR and a still object?

mtkeller · 07-21-2021, 08:35 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by lmd91343

Shake reduction appears to work. ?!

If SR is available, is the same as the K1?

If distortion can be produced by moving objects and a still sensor,
What is produced by a moving sensor caused by SR and a still object?

I read someone mention elsewhere that the K-1 only allows electronic shutter in single frame shooting, but the K-3 iii definitely allows high speed continuous shooting with electronic shutter both from live view and with the OVF. When using the OVF, the mirror flips up on shutter press and stays up while you fire off a sequence of images using the electronic shutter, and then the mirror flips down. Definitely a more stealthy way to get a nice continuous burst, provided that you're not needing to see through the OVF during the sequence of shots. (I have not had a chance to test how the AF.C tracking works when using electronic shutter.)

0x4243 · 07-21-2021, 10:27 AM

Originally posted by mtkeller

I read someone mention elsewhere that the K-1 only allows electronic shutter in single frame shooting, but the K-3 iii definitely allows high speed continuous shooting with electronic shutter both from live view and with the OVF. When using the OVF, the mirror flips up on shutter press and stays up while you fire off a sequence of images using the electronic shutter, and then the mirror flips down. Definitely a more stealthy way to get a nice continuous burst, provided that you're not needing to see through the OVF during the sequence of shots. (I have not had a chance to test how the AF.C tracking works when using electronic shutter.)

Yes, I just updated and wondered why there is that mix in OVF mode where the first image is taken with mechanical shutter (sounds like) and the rest of the sequence in cont. shooting is taken with ES. Somehow strange, because the camera is not in live view mode at that time. I would expect to use the mechanical shutter for single and continuous shooting (as the K-1 does).

An other strange thing I came across: The continuous AF seems not to work at all in live view (with the 18-135 lens at least). No matter if electronic or mechanical shutter is selected. The camera is set to AF tracking (in LV), and the focus point tracks the initially focussed object but when I move away with the camera, everthing gets blurry but focus does not move... Never had tested this prior to the 1.10 update tough.

BTW: The german translation for the electronic shutter is "Elektronische Blende" which means "electronic aperture"...

mtkeller · 07-21-2021, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by 0x4243

Yes, I just updated and wondered why there is that mix in OVF mode where the first image is taken with mechanical shutter (sounds like) and the rest of the sequence in cont. shooting is taken with ES. Somehow strange, because the camera is not in live view mode at that time. I would expect to use the mechanical shutter for single and continuous shooting (as the K-1 does).

The sound you hear with OVF and electronic shutter is the mirror going up. All the shots are taken with the electronic shutter. If you use a longer shutter speed, you should be able to more clearly hear and distinguish the mirror sound from the shutter sound and how that’s different for mechanical shutter and electronic shutter.

0x4243 · 07-21-2021, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by mtkeller

The sound you hear with OVF and electronic shutter is the mirror going up. All the shots are taken with the electronic shutter. If you use a longer shutter speed, you should be able to more clearly hear and distinguish the mirror sound from the shutter sound and how that’s different for mechanical shutter and electronic shutter.

Ok, thanks for the clarification. That means, that electronic shutter is used in OVF and LV mode. At least for continuous shooting.
ehm... well... that makes sense. The documentation doesn't talk about live view anywhere. The confusion was just in my mind...

The german documentation also mentions that it is called "electronic/mechanical aperture" instead of shutter due to an translation error. They already know it

**Kobie** · 07-21-2021, 01:37 PM - **2 Likes**

For those curious about the sounds. Here ya go...

Youtu.be

cgchang · 07-21-2021, 05:52 PM

I wonder what the purpose of electronic shutter with the OVF would be? In terms of silent shooting and movement/vibrations, there's still the flapping of the mirror moving. Definitely an added benefit in LV, but in OVF it seems to me the only added benefit is a higher shutter speed. Any other uses?

mtkeller · 07-21-2021, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by cgchang

I wonder what the purpose of electronic shutter with the OVF would be? In terms of silent shooting and movement/vibrations, there's still the flapping of the mirror moving. Definitely an added benefit in LV, but in OVF it seems to me the only added benefit is a higher shutter speed. Any other uses?

If you do continuous shooting mode with the electronic shutter and OVF, you don’t get the mirror flapping for every exposure, but rather it goes up for the first shot and down when you release the shutter button. If you don’t need to see through the OVF to track something as you shoot, this can give a much quieter way of firing off a long burst.

07-21-2021, 05:42 AM - 1 Like	#47
Unregistered User Guest	Originally posted by lmd91343 Sort of... Thanks for the spot. It tells us how to turn it on and off only. Can I use it for moving subjects? Fast? Slow? Hand held? Tripod only? Flash sync? Astrotracer? Panning? Subject motion? ... The list of unknowns could go on and on. I agree. The engineers have set up a series of specifications and they should, in depth, explain how the users should use and to make the most of them. Turning functions I do not understand how they work on and off I can do without a manual. Blindly testning unexplained functions is often a waste of time. Last edited by Unregistered User; 07-21-2021 at 12:04 PM.

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07-21-2021, 04:18 AM	#46
kypfer Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Jersey C.I. Posts: 3,588	Originally posted by ffking It's a weird thing - I'm sure I'm just an old dog, but I remember being excited about that tranche of new functionality that came after the K-1's release (square crop, night vision rear LCD, electronic shutter implementations etc) and I don't think I've ever used them. I suppose it's good to know that your camera can do those things, but most of the time we tend to use our own brains, not the camera's, to deal with situations, just by force of habit. Or is that just me? It's certainly "not just you", I only "discovered" TAv Mode about three years ago, having owned a K-5 since 2014 and had been quite confident that aperture priority was all I'd ever need It's not just about not being able to take a good picture using the knowledge we've already learnt, but finding out how to make that process easier and maybe taking pictures we wouldn't have even dreamed possible by utilizing the technological features available on the latest cameras The K-3iii has a seven-figure ISO capability! OK, it's noisy (very noisy), but if you need that "black cat in coal cellar" capability, fit a wide-aperture lens and go for it

07-21-2021, 06:07 AM	#48
Ishpuini Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Antwerp, Belgium Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,727	Originally posted by Tjompen1968 I agree. The engineers have set up a series of specifications and they should, in depth, explain how the users should use and to make the most of them. Turning functions I do not understand how they work in and off I can do without a manual. Blindly testning unexplained functions is often a waste of time. You could say that about most of the settings as they are described in the manual... As such the document describing electronic shutter is perfectly in line with the style of the existing manual.

07-21-2021, 06:48 AM	#49
lmd91343 Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Los Angeles, CA USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,027	This is the page from the K1 mark II: It is a start.

07-21-2021, 06:58 AM	#50
snappyhoffy Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Buckinghamshire, UK Posts: 185	Originally posted by lmd91343 This is the page from the K1 mark II: It is a start. Interesting that I just checked and Shake Reduction appears to work (Icon appears in Info Screen). Can't see how in the world of 'Cut & Paste' they couldnt have created a similar page as an Addendum to manual. (Maybe have to ask them for a job!)

07-21-2021, 07:02 AM	#51
lmd91343 Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Los Angeles, CA USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,027	When I was using Canon cameras and lenses, if I had a technical question or issue there was an office I could write or call. I would alway get a quick and accurate response. In the last ten years of my calls I always got the same engineer. Myself and my Canon friends were very parsimonious in using his time, but it was available. Here what resources do we have? ---------- Post added 07-21-21 at 07:07 AM ---------- Originally posted by snappyhoffy Interesting that I just checked and Shake Reduction appears to work (Icon appears in Info Screen). Can't see how in the world of 'Cut & Paste' they couldnt have created a similar page as an Addendum to manual. (Maybe have to ask them for a job!) Staying retired has a nice feeling. Besides, my baby is getting married this fall and I am a bit preoccupied.

07-21-2021, 07:15 AM	#52
c.a.m Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ottawa, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,188	Originally posted by lmd91343 Myself and my Canon friends were very parsimonious in using his time, but it was available. Here what resources do we have? I think the best resource at the moment is Pentax Forums -- the members of this very helpful community are willing to share ideas, solutions, suggestions, and hacks. However, without guidance or detailed information from Ricoh Imaging on new features and capabilities, we are left to explore, discover, or guess. For example, I am in the process of working through the various autofocus modes and AF area settings on my K-3 Mark III. The Operating Manual gives only limited information. I've found several very detailed AF guides for Nikon and Canon cameras, which can be used to infer the appropriate settings on the Pentax. But, it's not straightforward -- the AF guide for the Canon 7D Mk II runs 50 pages, so there is a lot of material to digest. - Craig Last edited by c.a.m; 07-21-2021 at 10:26 AM.

07-21-2021, 07:18 AM	#53
lmd91343 Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Los Angeles, CA USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,027	Originally posted by snappyhoffy Interesting that I just checked and Shake Reduction appears to work (Icon appears in Info Screen). Can't see how in the world of 'Cut & Paste' they couldnt have created a similar page as an Addendum to manual. (Maybe have to ask them for a job!) Shake reduction appears to work. ?! If SR is available, is the same as the K1? If distortion can be produced by moving objects and a still sensor, What is produced by a moving sensor caused by SR and a still object?

07-21-2021, 08:35 AM - 1 Like	#54
mtkeller Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Sioux City, IA Photos: Gallery Posts: 938	Originally posted by lmd91343 Shake reduction appears to work. ?! If SR is available, is the same as the K1? If distortion can be produced by moving objects and a still sensor, What is produced by a moving sensor caused by SR and a still object? I read someone mention elsewhere that the K-1 only allows electronic shutter in single frame shooting, but the K-3 iii definitely allows high speed continuous shooting with electronic shutter both from live view and with the OVF. When using the OVF, the mirror flips up on shutter press and stays up while you fire off a sequence of images using the electronic shutter, and then the mirror flips down. Definitely a more stealthy way to get a nice continuous burst, provided that you're not needing to see through the OVF during the sequence of shots. (I have not had a chance to test how the AF.C tracking works when using electronic shutter.)

07-21-2021, 10:27 AM	#55
0x4243 New Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Maxhütte-Haidhof, Germany Posts: 23	Originally posted by mtkeller I read someone mention elsewhere that the K-1 only allows electronic shutter in single frame shooting, but the K-3 iii definitely allows high speed continuous shooting with electronic shutter both from live view and with the OVF. When using the OVF, the mirror flips up on shutter press and stays up while you fire off a sequence of images using the electronic shutter, and then the mirror flips down. Definitely a more stealthy way to get a nice continuous burst, provided that you're not needing to see through the OVF during the sequence of shots. (I have not had a chance to test how the AF.C tracking works when using electronic shutter.) Yes, I just updated and wondered why there is that mix in OVF mode where the first image is taken with mechanical shutter (sounds like) and the rest of the sequence in cont. shooting is taken with ES. Somehow strange, because the camera is not in live view mode at that time. I would expect to use the mechanical shutter for single and continuous shooting (as the K-1 does). An other strange thing I came across: The continuous AF seems not to work at all in live view (with the 18-135 lens at least). No matter if electronic or mechanical shutter is selected. The camera is set to AF tracking (in LV), and the focus point tracks the initially focussed object but when I move away with the camera, everthing gets blurry but focus does not move... Never had tested this prior to the 1.10 update tough. BTW: The german translation for the electronic shutter is "Elektronische Blende" which means "electronic aperture"...

07-21-2021, 10:33 AM	#56
mtkeller Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Sioux City, IA Photos: Gallery Posts: 938	Originally posted by 0x4243 Yes, I just updated and wondered why there is that mix in OVF mode where the first image is taken with mechanical shutter (sounds like) and the rest of the sequence in cont. shooting is taken with ES. Somehow strange, because the camera is not in live view mode at that time. I would expect to use the mechanical shutter for single and continuous shooting (as the K-1 does). The sound you hear with OVF and electronic shutter is the mirror going up. All the shots are taken with the electronic shutter. If you use a longer shutter speed, you should be able to more clearly hear and distinguish the mirror sound from the shutter sound and how that’s different for mechanical shutter and electronic shutter.

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07-21-2021, 10:44 AM	#57
0x4243 New Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Maxhütte-Haidhof, Germany Posts: 23	Originally posted by mtkeller The sound you hear with OVF and electronic shutter is the mirror going up. All the shots are taken with the electronic shutter. If you use a longer shutter speed, you should be able to more clearly hear and distinguish the mirror sound from the shutter sound and how that’s different for mechanical shutter and electronic shutter. Ok, thanks for the clarification. That means, that electronic shutter is used in OVF and LV mode. At least for continuous shooting. ehm... well... that makes sense. The documentation doesn't talk about live view anywhere. The confusion was just in my mind... The german documentation also mentions that it is called "electronic/mechanical aperture" instead of shutter due to an translation error. They already know it

07-21-2021, 05:52 PM	#59
cgchang Senior Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Delta, British Columbia Posts: 148	I wonder what the purpose of electronic shutter with the OVF would be? In terms of silent shooting and movement/vibrations, there's still the flapping of the mirror moving. Definitely an added benefit in LV, but in OVF it seems to me the only added benefit is a higher shutter speed. Any other uses?

07-21-2021, 06:59 PM	#60
mtkeller Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Sioux City, IA Photos: Gallery Posts: 938	Originally posted by cgchang I wonder what the purpose of electronic shutter with the OVF would be? In terms of silent shooting and movement/vibrations, there's still the flapping of the mirror moving. Definitely an added benefit in LV, but in OVF it seems to me the only added benefit is a higher shutter speed. Any other uses? If you do continuous shooting mode with the electronic shutter and OVF, you don’t get the mirror flapping for every exposure, but rather it goes up for the first shot and down when you release the shutter button. If you don’t need to see through the OVF to track something as you shoot, this can give a much quieter way of firing off a long burst.