New firmware and electronic shutter is here

**ramseybuckeye** · 07-20-2021, 02:02 AM

Originally posted by Ishpuini

I have no experience with electronic shutter. Can anyone explain how this works? Is it either electronic or mechanic shutter throughout the entire range of shutter speeds? If so, what would be the reasons to keep the mechanic shutter? Or does the electronic shutter only engage for speeds faster than 1/8000s? The documentation isn't very clear.

I know I could test myself (is it easy to deduce from the camera sound?), but I won't have the time to do the upgrade anytime soon, and I'm curious...

Electronic shutters don’t do well with motion. I that is what I have read, I have not tried it on any shots with moving subjects. But I’ve used it on many landscapes.

house · 07-20-2021, 02:09 AM

So perhaps dpreview will update their studio scene? Hopefully this solves the blurry image issues.

Kunzite · 07-20-2021, 02:12 AM

Originally posted by house

So perhaps dpreview will update their studio scene? Hopefully this solves the blurry image issues.

Unless they'd hit the camera with a hammer during the actual exposure, purely by accident.

Unregistered User · 07-20-2021, 02:30 AM

Unfortunately the issue with 2s timer and horizon correction is still there.

kypfer · 07-20-2021, 02:30 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Ishpuini

I have no experience with electronic shutter. Can anyone explain how this works? Is it either electronic or mechanic shutter throughout the entire range of shutter speeds? If so, what would be the reasons to keep the mechanic shutter? Or does the electronic shutter only engage for speeds faster than 1/8000s? The documentation isn't very clear.

I know I could test myself (is it easy to deduce from the camera sound?), but I won't have the time to do the upgrade anytime soon, and I'm curious...

The selection is either Electronic Shutter or Mechanical Shutter, there's no overlap.
Electronic shutters work by reading the pixels individually during the exposure, so there's a noticeable delay (fractions of a second, but noticeable) between the start of the exposure and the end of the exposure, even though each pixel is only exposed for the chosen time, hence the weird smearing effect you see on a lot of aeroplane propellors in recent videos.
With a mechanical shutter, all the pixels are exposed at the same instant, then the reading is performed subsequently, so, as in the previous example, aeroplane propellors are either depicted as individual clearly defined blades or as a blurred disc, depending on the speed of rotation and the shutter speed.
It's mostly a case of "nothing to worry about" unless you have a specific reason to want a very high shutter speed. One example Pentax quotes (somewhere) is the use of wide-aperture lenses in bright light to emphasise image separation (minimal depth of field) … a function many of us have used ND filters for in the past

When engaged in LiveView, the Electronic Shutter makes the camera virtually silent (just the sound of the aperture in auto exposure) and eliminates the risk of blur induced by mirror or shutter activation, but see comments regarding Horizon Correction and 2sec Timer above.

Ishpuini · 07-20-2021, 02:33 AM

Originally posted by ramseybuckeye

Electronic shutters don’t do well with motion. I that is what I have read, I have not tried it on any shots with moving subjects. But I’ve used it on many landscapes.

So I understand it would be a setting that needs to be changed depending on the situation, and not a setting to engage once for all.

house · 07-20-2021, 02:33 AM

Originally posted by Tjompen1968

Unfortunately the issue with 2s timer and horizon correction is still there.

Have you tested?

Unregistered User · 07-20-2021, 02:53 AM

Originally posted by house

Have you tested?

Yes, of course.

mctaveck · 07-20-2021, 03:05 AM

Originally posted by Tjompen1968

Unfortunately the issue with 2s timer and horizon correction is still there.

Someone wrote in reply at my post that Pentax or Ricoh is looking at this forum to understand the issues so we could not mess up with false issues etc. I wanna be optimistic: let say that maybe they need more time to fix the "2s timer and horizon correction" problem ...

Danilo

kypfer · 07-20-2021, 03:26 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Ishpuini

So I understand it would be a setting that needs to be changed depending on the situation, and not a setting to engage once for all.

I think that's a valid evaluation

As with so many features on the recent Pentax cameras, as much functionality as reasonably possible (at the price point) has been made available for those of us who'd like to use it.
Many features won't be used by many photographers, but the more options we've got the better chances we've got of making really good pictures in our chosen field(s) of endeavour

Ishpuini · 07-20-2021, 03:41 AM

Originally posted by kypfer

One example Pentax quotes (somewhere) is the use of wide-aperture lenses in bright light to emphasise image separation (minimal depth of field) … a function many of us have used ND filters for in the past

That would be my use case indeed. Esp with my K50/1.2 I often bump into the 1/8000s limit.

Lloyd_Christmas · 07-20-2021, 09:21 AM

I think one of the best uses for myself is in Live View.
If in LV the mirror is already up so elec. shutter will just go ahead and take the photo without cycling the mirror.

**mlt** · 07-20-2021, 09:27 AM

Nice to see ES is an option regardless of using live view or the optical viewfinder and not just limited to live view mode.

vonBaloney · 07-20-2021, 09:38 AM

It didn't already have an electronic shutter? That's pretty weird. (I mean, obviously it did for pixel shift.)

**lmd91343** · 07-20-2021, 09:48 AM

So, this is a feature and not a big fix. Why was this not implemented at release?

Any Pentax documentation of advantages and disadvantages, uses and avoidances? I read the one page Pentax PDF of how to invoke it.

Any Pentax Forums documentation of advantages and disadvantages, uses and avoidances? I read the KP review and owners manual.

Thanks

07-20-2021, 02:30 AM - 1 Like	#20
kypfer Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Jersey C.I. Posts: 3,591	Originally posted by Ishpuini I have no experience with electronic shutter. Can anyone explain how this works? Is it either electronic or mechanic shutter throughout the entire range of shutter speeds? If so, what would be the reasons to keep the mechanic shutter? Or does the electronic shutter only engage for speeds faster than 1/8000s? The documentation isn't very clear. I know I could test myself (is it easy to deduce from the camera sound?), but I won't have the time to do the upgrade anytime soon, and I'm curious... The selection is either Electronic Shutter or Mechanical Shutter, there's no overlap. Electronic shutters work by reading the pixels individually during the exposure, so there's a noticeable delay (fractions of a second, but noticeable) between the start of the exposure and the end of the exposure, even though each pixel is only exposed for the chosen time, hence the weird smearing effect you see on a lot of aeroplane propellors in recent videos. With a mechanical shutter, all the pixels are exposed at the same instant, then the reading is performed subsequently, so, as in the previous example, aeroplane propellors are either depicted as individual clearly defined blades or as a blurred disc, depending on the speed of rotation and the shutter speed. It's mostly a case of "nothing to worry about" unless you have a specific reason to want a very high shutter speed. One example Pentax quotes (somewhere) is the use of wide-aperture lenses in bright light to emphasise image separation (minimal depth of field) … a function many of us have used ND filters for in the past When engaged in LiveView, the Electronic Shutter makes the camera virtually silent (just the sound of the aperture in auto exposure) and eliminates the risk of blur induced by mirror or shutter activation, but see comments regarding Horizon Correction and 2sec Timer above. Last edited by kypfer; 07-20-2021 at 03:14 AM. Reason: afterthought

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07-20-2021, 02:02 AM	#16
ramseybuckeye Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hampstead, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 17,291	Originally posted by Ishpuini I have no experience with electronic shutter. Can anyone explain how this works? Is it either electronic or mechanic shutter throughout the entire range of shutter speeds? If so, what would be the reasons to keep the mechanic shutter? Or does the electronic shutter only engage for speeds faster than 1/8000s? The documentation isn't very clear. I know I could test myself (is it easy to deduce from the camera sound?), but I won't have the time to do the upgrade anytime soon, and I'm curious... Electronic shutters don’t do well with motion. I that is what I have read, I have not tried it on any shots with moving subjects. But I’ve used it on many landscapes.

07-20-2021, 02:09 AM	#17
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	So perhaps dpreview will update their studio scene? Hopefully this solves the blurry image issues.

07-20-2021, 02:12 AM	#18
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by house So perhaps dpreview will update their studio scene? Hopefully this solves the blurry image issues. Unless they'd hit the camera with a hammer during the actual exposure, purely by accident.

07-20-2021, 02:30 AM	#19
Unregistered User Guest	Unfortunately the issue with 2s timer and horizon correction is still there.

07-20-2021, 02:33 AM	#21
Ishpuini Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Antwerp, Belgium Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,727	Originally posted by ramseybuckeye Electronic shutters don’t do well with motion. I that is what I have read, I have not tried it on any shots with moving subjects. But I’ve used it on many landscapes. So I understand it would be a setting that needs to be changed depending on the situation, and not a setting to engage once for all.

07-20-2021, 02:33 AM	#22
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	Originally posted by Tjompen1968 Unfortunately the issue with 2s timer and horizon correction is still there. Have you tested?

07-20-2021, 02:53 AM	#23
Unregistered User Guest	Originally posted by house Have you tested? Yes, of course.

07-20-2021, 03:05 AM	#24
mctaveck Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 165	Originally posted by Tjompen1968 Unfortunately the issue with 2s timer and horizon correction is still there. Someone wrote in reply at my post that Pentax or Ricoh is looking at this forum to understand the issues so we could not mess up with false issues etc. I wanna be optimistic: let say that maybe they need more time to fix the "2s timer and horizon correction" problem ... Danilo

07-20-2021, 03:26 AM - 1 Like	#25
kypfer Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Jersey C.I. Posts: 3,591	Originally posted by Ishpuini So I understand it would be a setting that needs to be changed depending on the situation, and not a setting to engage once for all. I think that's a valid evaluation As with so many features on the recent Pentax cameras, as much functionality as reasonably possible (at the price point) has been made available for those of us who'd like to use it. Many features won't be used by many photographers, but the more options we've got the better chances we've got of making really good pictures in our chosen field(s) of endeavour

07-20-2021, 03:41 AM	#26
Ishpuini Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Antwerp, Belgium Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,727	Originally posted by kypfer One example Pentax quotes (somewhere) is the use of wide-aperture lenses in bright light to emphasise image separation (minimal depth of field) … a function many of us have used ND filters for in the past That would be my use case indeed. Esp with my K50/1.2 I often bump into the 1/8000s limit.

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07-20-2021, 09:21 AM	#27
Lloyd_Christmas Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 458	I think one of the best uses for myself is in Live View. If in LV the mirror is already up so elec. shutter will just go ahead and take the photo without cycling the mirror.

07-20-2021, 09:27 AM	#28
mlt Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,159	Nice to see ES is an option regardless of using live view or the optical viewfinder and not just limited to live view mode.

07-20-2021, 09:38 AM	#29
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	It didn't already have an electronic shutter? That's pretty weird. (I mean, obviously it did for pixel shift.)

07-20-2021, 09:48 AM	#30
lmd91343 Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Los Angeles, CA USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,027	So, this is a feature and not a big fix. Why was this not implemented at release? Any Pentax documentation of advantages and disadvantages, uses and avoidances? I read the one page Pentax PDF of how to invoke it. Any Pentax Forums documentation of advantages and disadvantages, uses and avoidances? I read the KP review and owners manual. Thanks