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01-05-2022, 10:26 AM - 2 Likes   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnX Quote
Why not use the K3 IIi with the Image Sync app or a field monitor? I use both for low level shots and can do so whilst standing. Much better on my knees and back rather than crouching to see a tilting screen.
You're grabbing quick shots of things you find interesting. The shot might not be available long, you want to fiddle syncing your phone or plugging in an external screen? That's quite a workaround to justify a fixed screen on the camera.



QuoteOriginally posted by Lloyd_Christmas Quote
Um.... I scanned through this vid and his camera had a flip out screen...but he never flipped it out. Advantage mk III !!!
Quite literally within 60 seconds of when he sets the camera down for a ground level shot he flips open the screen...

01-05-2022, 12:35 PM - 3 Likes   #32
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Everybody shoots differently and some may never use a flip screen and some will. I use it a lot on my KP when I'm using a tripod, I often shoot at low levels, sometimes even on the ground. Before I had the KP, sometimes I just wouldn't take those shots, I take a lot more of them now. There are always some features on a camera that are very important to some but not to others, the tilt screen is very important to me. I would not buy the K-3III as my only camera because of the lack of a tilt screen, if I could afford one I would buy it and use it along with my KP. The K-3III would take over the wildlife shooting, while the KP would keep doing landscapes, macros, and any other tripod shooting. But's it's an obvious advantage to have the capability, and I certainly prefer it.

I will not be surprised if they bring out another version of the K-3III with a tilt screen, or maybe it will be a KP replacement. When?. anyone's guess with Ricoh/Pentax gear releases.
01-05-2022, 12:42 PM - 1 Like   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lloyd_Christmas Quote
Um.... I scanned through this vid and his camera had a flip out screen...but he never flipped it out. Advantage mk III !!!
Actually he did use it and it kind of saved him, how would that be an advantage mk III? Because you didn't use it every time? The advantage is having the capability for those that use it, there's no advantage not having it, except you didn't have to pay the extra amount it cost to manufacture over a fixed screen.
01-05-2022, 12:54 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnX Quote
Why not use the K3 IIi with the Image Sync app or a field monitor? I use both for low level shots and can do so whilst standing. Much better on my knees and back rather than crouching to see a tilting screen.
Because if you haven't pre-planned for that and already connected the camera and your phone it's cumbersome. I've finally (after eight months of K-3 III ownership) gotten the phone-camera sync kind of down pat and it still just took me 45 seconds from start to getting to the point where I'm looking at camera images on my phone. And that sitting at a desk in comfortable temperatures.

So you either plan ahead and have Image Sync connected before you walk out the door, and don't turn off the camera. Or fiddle around for a while holding two devices and perhaps taking off gloves while your subject patiently waits. I've seen hotshoe phone mounts, maybe that would helpful?


I'm fine with the K-3 III as it is, I've never had a camera with a moveable screen. But ImageSync as a field monitor is not a great thing, at least for me. It's like built-in GPS. You can have an in-camera solution that just works, or most of the time you'll learn to go without.

01-05-2022, 01:00 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Tell that to Nikon and Canon. As far as I can tell neither of those companies pro DSLR cameras have flip screens and they cost several times the price of the K-3III.
Thank you for beating me to this...The same goes for direct-competition enthusiast models from Nikon.

QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Flip screen on DSLR's seems to be a feature for amateurs and videoshooters....
...and enthusiast models with well-developed video capabilities.

I would like a flip screen option for low-level, but have managed to do without quite nicely on my K-3. It would have been nice on the K-3III, but would not be a deal-breaker for me if I were in the market as an early adopter.


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01-05-2022, 01:02 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by ramseybuckeye Quote
Actually he did use it and it kind of saved him, how would that be an advantage mk III? Because you didn't use it every time? The advantage is having the capability for those that use it, there's no advantage not having it, except you didn't have to pay the extra amount it cost to manufacture over a fixed screen.
Actually you have pretty good view of that screen even if it is low. And you can even choose AF point by finger. I have used that and camera was down on the ground. I was holding it in my hand, not even tripod. On tripod you can use iPhone as your screen. It is far better than with older gen Pentax . Yes, it is not the same as flip, but it is ok. Then again, if you find more than 20% of your shooting like that, it might be better to go with flippy.

Truth is that this camera has very nice OVF, and that screen is not bad either
01-05-2022, 01:03 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eric Auer Quote
Canon and Nikon are phasing out their Pro DSLR's.
They will still sell lower end models for a while, for amateurs you know.
Canon has explicitly stated that they are leaving the dSLR market. No surprise here.

Nikon, OTHO, has made no such statement and continues to offer and promote their dSLR line.


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01-05-2022, 01:09 PM - 1 Like   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Besides, I wonder how these people managed in the film days......
The same way I manage now...



I have both the Olympus Varimagni and a Refconverter A that I use for low level work.


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01-05-2022, 01:42 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Canon has explicitly stated that they are leaving the dSLR market. No surprise here.

Nikon, OTHO, has made no such statement and continues to offer and promote their dSLR line.


Steve
Nikon is heavily promoting the mirrorless Z cameras, lately the flagship Z9.
I think thats where their future efforts are heading.

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01-05-2022, 03:19 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eric Auer Quote
Nikon is heavily promoting the mirrorless Z cameras, lately the flagship Z9.
Make sense, given that it and supporting lenses are new product. Clicking on the menu for Cameras and dSLR is at the top of the list. Click through and the first paragraph reads:

QuoteQuote:
Create without limits

Once you’ve felt the liberating power, speed and performance of a Nikon DSLR, you’ll see why they’re the preferred tool of pro and aspiring photographers everywhere. See your photos and videos come to life with stunning clarity and rich detail through masterly-crafted Nikon DSLR cameras and world-renowned Nikkor lenses.
It appears that dSLRs are alive and well in Nikonland.


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01-05-2022, 04:04 PM - 1 Like   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by sebberry Quote
There's a YouTube photographer I follow who is really engaged with street photography.

This scene from his latest video is a good example of where the flippy screen comes in handy and I thought it was relevant here:

https://youtu.be/bf8F3dggktU?t=164
Thank you for sharing that YouTube link. He seems to be interesting, but I honestly had a hard time with the odd spraying water in his own face. I wanted to hear some informed commentary, not "I can't see! This is so wet!" Well, yes, you're spraying water on your own face.

I'm going to try some of his other videos and hope they're less gimmicky and exxxxxxtra.
What I would have liked to see more of would be his "keeper" photos from that run through city streets to get a better sense of what he was after and how he sees good scenes. Instead, he showed other people's good photos, which was nice, but there was no sense of how fast they went down city streets or if they just went one place and spent 10 minutes getting an excellent photo.

Last edited by yucatanPentax; 01-05-2022 at 04:10 PM.
01-05-2022, 04:56 PM - 1 Like   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by AfterPentax Mark II Quote
Where are those days when you gladly lay down on the dewed grass or a muddy path looking through that fabulous optical viewfinder to take that beautiful picture of that flower, insect or whatever? In filmdays you did not have a tilting, articulating or flippy screen. In the beginning of digital camera's you didn't have it either. So what is the fuzz all about? Are we photographers or are we grumpy old men?
For me, I am a photographer who is also a grumpy old man. I still get down on the ground with my KP, but I have to lay down and because of physical limitations it's a struggle getting back up. And being 76 yoa it's not getting any easier.
01-05-2022, 05:33 PM - 2 Likes   #43
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Beside difficulty on aging, the laying down on the floor argument doesn't hold much water for my gene of photography as well.
Try to lay down on a busy street in big cities is just not a practical thing to do or even think about it. I would love to see people try that for real in a big city's busy street and sidewalk, especially on a raining night They will be lucky if someone stepping on their head, less lucky getting a bicycle run over or worse a car. And that couldn't even fix the difficulty on the extreme high angle. Perhaps we have to just jump high enough? A simple tilt screen is the way to go, less chucky. Don't use it don't flip it out, but it is there when you need it.

Last edited by tokyoscape; 01-05-2022 at 05:56 PM.
01-05-2022, 07:59 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by yucatanPentax Quote
Thank you for sharing that YouTube link. He seems to be interesting, but I honestly had a hard time with the odd spraying water in his own face. I wanted to hear some informed commentary, not "I can't see! This is so wet!" Well, yes, you're spraying water on your own face.

I'm going to try some of his other videos and hope they're less gimmicky and exxxxxxtra.
What I would have liked to see more of would be his "keeper" photos from that run through city streets to get a better sense of what he was after and how he sees good scenes. Instead, he showed other people's good photos, which was nice, but there was no sense of how fast they went down city streets or if they just went one place and spent 10 minutes getting an excellent photo.
Fair comments. That particular video was a challenge to himself to see how many photos he can get in 10 minutes. There's lots of other videos with different feels.

He's also trying to promote community through the sharing of other people's photos at the end of his videos.

I have no affiliation with him, just find his work inspiring and interesting.
01-05-2022, 08:01 PM - 1 Like   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by ramseybuckeye Quote
Why would you need to pull out an articulating screen to see live view?
True, you don't need to pull out screen to see it. I think I was trying to say I don't need to as the angle of view is good on fixed. My testing on K-70 does reveal that angle of view is pretty good there too. I suppose I like the uncomplicated nature of fixed.

---------- Post added 01-05-22 at 09:03 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Gray Quote
It's the reason I didn't buy the K-3 III and chose to stick with the KP in the Pentax world.

Being a keen hiker, and having several Olympus weather sealed lenses, I used the money to buy an Olympus EM1 III instead (for it's portability, IBIS, weathersealing, burst rate, accurate focusing, and... fully articulated screen). I'm neutral regarding EVF/OVF.

That said, I don't think I'd ever sell my K-5II or old Pentax lenses. But the K-3 III without an articulating screen just wasn't compelling enough at $2000.
I am a keen hiker as well. I applaud your Olympus, I think they are a good under-appreciated system. The single block nature of K-3 III is what appeals to me.

---------- Post added 01-05-22 at 09:04 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
Pentax just released a video interview with a photographer which explains some of the thinking of not having a tilt screen. It basically said that it's part of their commitment to the OVF experience.

I'm not sure the explanation make a lot of sense, but it's good to see Pentax doing something to market the benefits of SLR cameras.

This video is in Japanese, but it seems to be partly targeted at English speakers. The translation you get when you click the CC button is pretty natural.

https://youtu.be/gM8coKJ__4o
Good to see.

---------- Post added 01-05-22 at 09:08 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Exactly this question came to mind.

Also a tilt screen is very different from an articulated screen. Most of us who complained wanted a mini k-1 screen or a tilt mechanism like the KP or perhaps the Sony A99. Tilt screens offer waist level mechanical options that no wide view fixed screen can. The wide view screen also won’t let me look straight up into the downward pointing screen when shooting over a crowd. Live tethering via WiFi is awkward but allows a hands and knees shot to become a tripod or bean bag shot and a comfortable photog relaxing nearby controlling the camera. So fixed screen isn’t the end of the story but it really puts me off. I’m also not a big fan of fully articulated screens.
I can understand being put off by fixed screen, especially when kit is expensive and multi-purpose is in mind. I will say, though, that in the case of "over-crowd" music photos, I tend to like quick deployment of a fixed screen and being able to see something that is "good enough" to get the shot.

---------- Post added 01-05-22 at 09:15 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
I think they are hearing more complaints from users than they expected. That is why they are including this kind of explanation in their video. They'll probably think twice before they leave out this feature in future.

I've never had a camera with a tilt screen, and I honestly don't find the idea very appealing. It would just detract from the apparent strength of the camera body. I find the design of bodies with lots of folding and extending parts rather messy (including flash and pop-up viewfinders. Haing said that, I value live view for shooting above crowds and at low angles. I've just never had a problem doing this while looking at the screen from an angle. I've done this on GR cameras and the K-01 for years, and the K-3 III seems to be even easier because of the viewing angle and better live view in general (though I've only had it for two days).

I can see Pentax's dilemma. They have the simple tilt screen on the KP, but that lacks movement. They have the fold out type on the K-70, but that takes the screen off the axis of the lens and is unacceptable for a high-end stills camera. Then they have the cross-tilt monitor, which is great, but adds a lot of thickness. I guess the KP type would have been the most practical one to add for an APS-C camera, but I'm fine without it.

For what it's worth, I was asked by Ricoh/Pentax to complete a survey about future DSLR features recently, and I made a comment that they should include a tilt screen in their future cameras. That was on behalf of others, because I don't care myself.
That's a good summary. It is a dilemma for the company, as there are complaints. If I were to complain about the K-3 III, it would be about lack of GPS for nature/documentary purposes, and not the lack of tilt/etc screen.
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