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09-24-2022, 09:36 AM   #1
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pseudo-KATEN Custom Image settings?

On the K-3iii firmware update page there's a link to Function Expand Firmware | PENTAX K-3 Mark III | RICOH IMAGING showing the effect of the KATEN Custom Image setting, which is only available with two specific lenses.
However, examination of the little hexagonal diagram shows a remarkable similarity to that in the 'Portrait' Custom Image setting within the camera.
There are also a set of contrast adjustments.
Is it possible someone with one of the "required" lenses could make a quick comparison between the KATEN setting (assuming they've updated their firmware to the latest level) and the Portrait setting, with the published contrast adjustments applied.
I've checked my other bodies and both the K-70 and the KP have a similar default Portrait configurations, so the contrast adjustments could be applied quite easily for a "pseudo-KATEN", if it was worth the effort.
Unfortunately my K-01, K-5 and the DCU have a different default Portrait configuration, so while DCU might be tweaked to provide a similar output, it wouldn't be possible with these two bodies.
I don't have any of the other interim bodies to check.

09-24-2022, 10:39 AM   #2
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Won't work in camera because you only have global adjustments in camera. KATEN shifts HSV (Hue, Value, Saturation) for certain hues more than others, especially for the blues and greens.
You may be able to create a custom profile in DCU using color controler , starting from an original KATEN picture of a color chart, and adjusting HSV for each tile of the color chart to match the colors of your reference KATEN image. You work step by step.

First you must have the same exposure, either via camera or via exposure correction in your PP software.
Second, you must have the white balance applied so that grey tiles don't have any color bias.
Third you work on matching the tone curve by using grey tiles from dark to pure white, so that you have the same common contrast applied to all colors, black, white and shades.
Fourth, you work on your HSV or HSL for each color tile of the color chart.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 09-24-2022 at 10:48 AM.
09-24-2022, 02:23 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Won't work in camera because you only have global adjustments in camera. KATEN shifts HSV (Hue, Value, Saturation) for certain hues more than others, especially for the blues and greens.
You may be able to create a custom profile in DCU using color controler , starting from an original KATEN picture of a color chart, and adjusting HSV for each tile of the color chart to match the colors of your reference KATEN image. You work step by step.

First you must have the same exposure, either via camera or via exposure correction in your PP software.
Second, you must have the white balance applied so that grey tiles don't have any color bias.
Third you work on matching the tone curve by using grey tiles from dark to pure white, so that you have the same common contrast applied to all colors, black, white and shades.
Fourth, you work on your HSV or HSL for each color tile of the color chart.


No … not my point … my point is that the Portrait Custom Image setting in the K-3iii etc. has very similar HSV settings (the little hexagon as I termed it) as the new KATEN setting, with just some contrast and sharpness changes for KATEN.
Obviously, if my suggestion doesn't work it's more complicated, but I'd like someone who actually has access to the KATEN setting to give it a try.
If it's too much trouble, no problem, I've lived without it for this long
09-24-2022, 07:18 PM   #4
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Katen doesn't look anything like portrait. It is closer to bright but it makes the blue sky a lot darker blue.

09-24-2022, 11:16 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by kypfer Quote
No … not my point … my point is that the Portrait Custom Image setting in the K-3iii etc. has very similar HSV settings
Yes I know what you mean. You looked at the color wheel diagram on camera display, and you notice the color wheel diagrams of Portrait and Katen are similar. But be aware that the color wheel diagrams shown to camera user are top finishing layers, there are intermediate color processing layers between raw data and top layer that Pentax doesn't show you. I'm been there..., I tried before you, years ago.
09-25-2022, 12:07 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Yes I know what you mean. You looked at the color wheel diagram on camera display, and you notice the color wheel diagrams of Portrait and Katen are similar. But be aware that the color wheel diagrams shown to camera user are top finishing layers, there are intermediate color processing layers between raw data and top layer that Pentax doesn't show you. I'm been there..., I tried before you, years ago.
OK … never mind … sorry I asked
QuoteOriginally posted by idontstairs Quote
Katen doesn't look anything like portrait. It is closer to bright but it makes the blue sky a lot darker blue.
Yes … which is why I asked if just changing the settings as shown on the page I linked to would make that much difference … failing finding someone with a suitable camera, appropriate lens and the interest to try it, I guess I'll never know
09-25-2022, 12:37 AM   #7
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As I have both the K3iii and the 15mm Ltd, I have access to the KATEN image profile. If you select the Bright profile, and add contrast, saturation and sharpness to your taste, you can get pretty close on any Pentax camera. The images below were taken with the K5iis and the 18-250mm.

Attached Images
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PENTAX K-5 II s  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-5 II s  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-5 II s  Photo 
09-25-2022, 01:25 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by allanmh Quote
As I have both the K3iii and the 15mm Ltd, I have access to the KATEN image profile. If you select the Bright profile, and add contrast, saturation and sharpness to your taste, you can get pretty close on any Pentax camera. The images below were taken with the K5iis and the 18-250mm.
Thankyou … yes … I've already achieved very acceptable results by adjusting "contrast, saturation and sharpness to taste", even with my *istD, using DCU, what I was interested in is how close do these results get to an actual KATEN image.
Is it possible you could take an image, save it in RAW, then in-camera develop it using the KATEN setting and also the Portrait setting, but with the added adjustments as shown here Function Expand Firmware | PENTAX K-3 Mark III | RICOH IMAGING ?
09-25-2022, 01:51 AM   #9
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Sure, I can do that, as soon as I get back to my summer cottage. Probably sometime next week.
09-25-2022, 10:07 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by allanmh Quote
Sure, I can do that, as soon as I get back to my summer cottage. Probably sometime next week.
I'll appreciate the effort … thank you very much
09-30-2022, 05:33 AM   #11
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Sorry about the delay. We've had a few days of 100% cloud cover, due to an occluded front sweeping through, but today I managed to catch a KATEN-esque image.
There are 4 images below. The first is the Katen profile, nr. 2 is the Potrtrait profile SOOC, nr. 3 is the Portrait profile with the KATEN adjustments applied. Just for fun, I also took the Neutral profile and added the KATEN adjustments. To my (aging) eyes, numbers 1, 3,and 4 are almost indistinguishable. So maybe the KATEN magic is just a matter of the adjustments you apply to a given profile.
Attached Images
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-3 Mark III  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-3 Mark III  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-3 Mark III  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-3 Mark III  Photo 
09-30-2022, 08:10 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by allanmh Quote
Sorry about the delay. We've had a few days of 100% cloud cover, due to an occluded front sweeping through, but today I managed to catch a KATEN-esque image.
There are 4 images below. The first is the Katen profile, nr. 2 is the Potrtrait profile SOOC, nr. 3 is the Portrait profile with the KATEN adjustments applied. Just for fun, I also took the Neutral profile and added the KATEN adjustments. To my (aging) eyes, numbers 1, 3,and 4 are almost indistinguishable. So maybe the KATEN magic is just a matter of the adjustments you apply to a given profile.
Very many thanks for your efforts … your conclusions would seem to be very similar to my own
I'll press on confident I'm not missing anything (much)
12-30-2022, 04:23 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by kypfer Quote
Very many thanks for your efforts … your conclusions would seem to be very similar to my ownI'll press on confident I'm not missing anything (much)
Looks like the answer matches your initial belief.
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