[schnur07]

I had some awful exposure issues with the stadium lighting at an away soccer game tonight. I have never experienced this. From what I'm reading it sounds like there are some kinds of stadium lights that cycle very quickly through a different color spectrum - or something like that. So it sounds like it throws off your white balance. Has anybody figured out if there is any way to fix this issue other than post processing? Tonight I shot everything in jpeg as I typically do so I'm not sure how much luck I'll have in post processing. Below is an example of a 3-burst shot.

I couldn't figure out what was going on when I was taking pictures tonight and then it dawned on me that I remembered reading someone posting about some issue with stadium lighting. I tried messing with as many different settings as I could think of, but it didn't matter.

Maybe if I didn't use continuous mode the AWB would be able to get the proper exposure with each separate shot?

So far I've only had this issue at one stadium.

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[MarkJerling]

Firstly, I'd consider that it would be hard work for AWB to get it right under stadium lighting. You're probably finding that it's guessing right and guessing wrong for some of the shots.

Most stadiums are still using metal halide, but some have switched to LED. You're best off to pick a WB setting and stick with that throughout your shoot. Do some tests beforehand to see which profile works best.

[kypfer]

I had some awful exposure issues with the stadium lighting at an away soccer game tonight. I have never experienced this. From what I'm reading it sounds like there are some kinds of stadium lights that cycle very quickly through a different color spectrum - or something like that. So it sounds like it throws off your white balance. Has anybody figured out if there is any way to fix this issue other than post processing? Tonight I shot everything in jpeg as I typically do so I'm not sure how much luck I'll have in post processing. Below is an example of a 3-burst shot.

I've no experience with stadium lighting, so this may not help, but if you load your JPG image into the supplied Digital Camera Utility (it'll need updating to the latest release Software Downloads : Support & Service | RICOH IMAGING ) the white balance can be easily adjusted
It may not be as "perfect" as working from a RAW, but it'll do a pretty good job!
As the software "understands" your camera it "knows" what white balance settings were use at exposure time, so can negate them and re-apply as required
Good luck!

[Levus]

I had some awful exposure issues with the stadium lighting at an away soccer game tonight. I have never experienced this. From what I'm reading it sounds like there are some kinds of stadium lights that cycle very quickly through a different color spectrum - or something like that. So it sounds like it throws off your white balance. Has anybody figured out if there is any way to fix this issue other than post processing? Tonight I shot everything in jpeg as I typically do so I'm not sure how much luck I'll have in post processing. Below is an example of a 3-burst shot.

I couldn't figure out what was going on when I was taking pictures tonight and then it dawned on me that I remembered reading someone posting about some issue with stadium lighting. I tried messing with as many different settings as I could think of, but it didn't matter.

Maybe if I didn't use continuous mode the AWB would be able to get the proper exposure with each separate shot?

So far I've only had this issue at one stadium.

Try out the multi-auto white balance setting. It can fail sometimes but all in one most of the time it gets the balance right.

[UncleVanya]

I think raw is the best answer for this and a tool like DXO can easily be corrected by picking a white jersey and using it as the white point.

[77me]

My understanding of this issue is that many stadium and gym lights are wired to 3 phase power. Normally the bank of lights lighting a particular area are lit using lights from all 3 phases so the color is fairly consistent, but sometimes an area is lit by lights using only a single phase.

Shooting RAW and correcting in post is the way I deal with the situation.

[photoptimist]

My understanding of this issue is that many stadium and gym lights are wired to 3 phase power. Normally the bank of lights lighting a particular area are lit using lights from all 3 phases so the color is fairly consistent, but sometimes an area is lit by lights using only a single phase.

Shooting RAW and correcting in post is the way I deal with the situation.

Having different parts of the field illuminated by different phases could make white balance almost impossible. The left side of a player could easily have a different white balance from the right side of the player.

[MarkJerling]

My understanding of this issue is that many stadium and gym lights are wired to 3 phase power. Normally the bank of lights lighting a particular area are lit using lights from all 3 phases so the color is fairly consistent, but sometimes an area is lit by lights using only a single phase.

Shooting RAW and correcting in post is the way I deal with the situation.

I don't understand how wiring from one phase or all three phases will alter the light colour?
Do you have a source?

[AstroDave]

I don't understand how wiring from one phase or all three phases will alter the light colour?
Do you have a source?

Possibly urban legend has it that the color temperature of some lights changes during the voltage sine wave that represents the instantaneous voltage during an AC cycle (at 50 or 60 Hz). I would like to see a reference on this, but it sounds quite plausible for things like gas discharge lighting (i.e. fluorescent).

IF that is the case, then three-phase wiring would make an interesting case. The three phases are 120 degrees out of phase with each other (see wikipedia here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-phase_electric_power), so lights driven by different phase pairs (a standard way to make a single phase circuit - just take any two wires of a three phase system, and you have a single-phase line) may all have different color temperatures from each other - AT THE SAME TIME.

I'm trying to figure out whether I have any such lights, and how one might actually measure this in a simple fashion. I think perhaps an electronic shutter image of a gray scale card, at. say 1/60 second, might show such effects. This assumes the ES scan rate is such that a complete scan/readout takes something like the full time corresponding to the shutter speed. Any wisdom on this?

[UncleVanya]

What I have seen is that some light systems don’t have constant color output. It could be due to having multiple color leds that sum to white that cycle on and off at the 60hz frequency.

---------- Post added 10-12-22 at 07:02 PM ----------

https://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=20873

[schnur07]

I've no experience with stadium lighting, so this may not help, but if you load your JPG image into the supplied Digital Camera Utility (it'll need updating to the latest release Software Downloads : Support & Service | RICOH IMAGING ) the white balance can be easily adjusted
It may not be as "perfect" as working from a RAW, but it'll do a pretty good job!
As the software "understands" your camera it "knows" what white balance settings were use at exposure time, so can negate them and re-apply as required
Good luck!

I've never heard of this software but just downloaded it. It looks like you hit the "laboratory" button and then over to the right there are some white balance options? Is there some way for it to automatically correct it? Is this software useful for other stuff? Currently I use On1 Raw 2023 photo editing software On1 Photo Raw 2023

I only use jpegs for sports and really try to limit the amount of post processing because I take and upload so many photos.

[photoptimist]

Possibly urban legend has it that the color temperature of some lights changes during the voltage sine wave that represents the instantaneous voltage during an AC cycle (at 50 or 60 Hz). I would like to see a reference on this, but it sounds quite plausible for things like gas discharge lighting (i.e. fluorescent).

It's not an urban legend.

The physical cause is that some lights use phosphorescent materials to create a smoother spectrum (better CRI) and to provide the right color temperature. The main emitter (e.g., the mercury arc in a fluorescent tube or the highly efficient blue emitter in most LED lamps) produces flickering light as a function of the instantaneous voltage. The phosphor absorbs that main light and re-emits it with some delay defined by an exponential decay with some number of millseconds. The net result is that the light has a spectrum that changes over the voltage cycle (which may be line AC or it could be something higher). The use of phosphors also reduces the perception of flicker by the human eye although a camera with a faster shutter speed may see both the flicker and the color effects.

If go into a dark room, cover or close your eyes tightly, turn on a fluorescent or LED light, turn off the light, and then open your eyes, you can often see the decaying glow of the phosphors.

This emitter-phosphor design also causes banding in photographs taken with a slowish electronic shutter (e.g., the K-1).

[MarkJerling]

Possibly urban legend has it that the color temperature of some lights changes during the voltage sine wave that represents the instantaneous voltage during an AC cycle (at 50 or 60 Hz). I would like to see a reference on this, but it sounds quite plausible for things like gas discharge lighting (i.e. fluorescent).

IF that is the case, then three-phase wiring would make an interesting case. The three phases are 120 degrees out of phase with each other (see wikipedia here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-phase_electric_power), so lights driven by different phase pairs (a standard way to make a single phase circuit - just take any two wires of a three phase system, and you have a single-phase line) may all have different color temperatures from each other - AT THE SAME TIME.

I'm trying to figure out whether I have any such lights, and how one might actually measure this in a simple fashion. I think perhaps an electronic shutter image of a gray scale card, at. say 1/60 second, might show such effects. This assumes the ES scan rate is such that a complete scan/readout takes something like the full time corresponding to the shutter speed. Any wisdom on this?

Now, that's interesting. If we consider that some stadiums will supply 3-phase to each lighting pillar, and others single phase to a pillar, but 3-phase to the field, then you could have, in some instances, all the light from one pillar on the same phase, but, in other setups, you could have a balanced system with a third of the lights on one pillar being driven off each phase. It would be interesting to see what is worse: Different lights around the field being out of phase or different parts of the light from one pillar being out of phase.

But, try as I might, I can't find anything online about this. Maybe I'm searching wrong!

[MarkJerling]

It's not an urban legend.

The physical cause is that some lights use phosphorescent materials to create a smoother spectrum (better CRI) and to provide the right color temperature. The main emitter (e.g., the mercury arc in a fluorescent tube or the highly efficient blue emitter in most LED lamps) produces flickering light as a function of the instantaneous voltage. The phosphor absorbs that main light and re-emits it with some delay defined by an exponential decay with some number of millseconds. The net result is that the light has a spectrum that changes over the voltage cycle (which may be line AC or it could be something higher). The use of phosphors also reduces the perception of flicker by the human eye although a camera with a faster shutter speed may see both the flicker and the color effects.

If go into a dark room, cover or close your eyes tightly, turn on a fluorescent or LED light, turn off the light, and then open your eyes, you can often see the decaying glow of the phosphors.

This emitter-phosphor design also causes banding in photographs taken with a slowish electronic shutter (e.g., the K-1).

That sounds "easy" to test with a single phase. I'll have to ask my PhD friend with all sorts of scientific gear if this is something he can measure.

[MarkJerling]

What I have seen is that some light systems don’t have constant color output. It could be due to having multiple color leds that sum to white that cycle on and off at the 60hz frequency.

---------- Post added 10-12-22 at 07:02 PM ----------

https://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=20873

Ah, cool. This page, referenced there, shows it nicely: https://www.sportsshooter.com/guyrhodes/wbtests/pages/3.html

And this:
http://www.guyrhodes.com/photo/flicker_lapse.gif