Vince's mk III observations thread...

Lloyd_Christmas · 10-23-2022, 11:00 AM

Couple observations about the AF function:

I have the AF set up on back-button only and have gotten myself trained to use that. One downside is that if you are not pressing the back AF button while firing the shutter, you won't get the selected AF point on the info screen (post shot)...at least that is what I have found out.

Another interesting thing is the times I use the AF button while set to use the full spread of AF points. I can see the little black squares that are chosen by the camera. When selecting the AF button again on same view, I get a different set of points. This goes on and on each time I select AF on same view. Is this just a scatterbrain AF system or is it a useful feature??? I'd like to think it is a useful thing...perhaps because I'm a Pentaxian. I will keep pressing the AF button until satisfied with the choice!

**AstroDave** · 10-23-2022, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by Lloyd_Christmas

This goes on and on each time I select AF on same view. Is this just a scatterbrain AF system or is it a useful feature???

Even though the view is the "same," even minor camera wiggle could well change the picked focus point(s) - especially if your scene is "busy." I prefer to set my specific focus point beforehand.

Lloyd_Christmas · 10-24-2022, 06:56 AM

Originally posted by Michaelina2

My K-3 MkIII "keeper rate" is highest using raw DNG, handheld with native light: P mode, AF-C, EV -0.07 (bright light) or EV -0.03 (cloudy), f-stop max open (DA*300/4+HD1.4= f/5.6), minimum Shutter speed 1/lens' focal length (300mm lens= 1/300 sec)... higher shutter speed preferred, ISO=Auto (up to 25600... I adjust the shutter speed to set my desired ISO), Drive Mode=Continuous (M), Meter mode= Highlight weighted, Active area AF=front shutter button priority (slow roll my finger to half-press in order to set focus full press to snap the shot), AF active area 'Expanded area AF(S)'... I place the center AF point on the place I wish the camera to focus, half-press the front shutter button until I see the green hex, then fire away.

K-3 MkIII, handheld, native light, crop, minimal PP, LrC+NIK... (click through to Flickr image for complete EXIF data)

Comments and questions are always welcome... M

Thanks and I will definitely try this setup.
Also, I will use a tripod and try my theory again on a busy scene.
My hope that it works the way I believe it does.
The camera usually picks a foreground object on a busy scene. What would be useful is if it moved points to more distant objects with each button press.
For now it may just be issues with handheld tests....

**nixxo2002** · 10-24-2022, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by Michaelina2

My K-3 MkIII "keeper rate" is highest using raw DNG, handheld with native light: P mode, AF-C, EV -0.07 (bright light) or EV -0.03 (cloudy), f-stop max open (DA*300/4+HD1.4= f/5.6), minimum Shutter speed 1/lens' focal length (300mm lens= 1/300 sec)... higher shutter speed preferred, ISO=Auto (up to 25600... I adjust the shutter speed to set my desired ISO), Drive Mode=Continuous (M), Meter mode= Highlight weighted, Active area AF=front shutter button priority (slow roll my finger to half-press in order to set focus full press to snap the shot), AF active area 'Expanded area AF(S)'... I place the center AF point on the place I wish the camera to focus, half-press the front shutter button until I see the green hex, then fire away.

K-3 MkIII, handheld, native light, crop, minimal PP, LrC+NIK... (click through to Flickr image for complete EXIF data)

Comments and questions are always welcome... M

great picture .
very interesting AF selection , but same time strange for me

. is any particular reason you are choosing AFC select mode over AFC zone with subject detection ? and AFS not with spot ?

**nixxo2002** · 10-24-2022, 04:40 PM

Originally posted by Michaelina2

Good observation/question...

I'm a skeet shooter/upland bird hunter (Gun Dog Handler, Quail, Pheasant, etc.).

Since I began rolling with Pentax, my go-to was AF-S+Spot focus. Shooting a dragonfly, or sparrow in flight with a 22... for me, that's AF-S+Spot... I can do it.

OTOH: After fighting the K-3 MkIII's focus for several months, it dawned on me that Pentax may have flipped the table. Perhaps, AF-C+Select Mode should be my go-to.

As I understand AF-C Select Mode, it works like 'spot focus'... similar to a shotgun's shot pattern, but not quite the same. Imagine the center dot as the master 'AF spot point'. It has priority focus over the other activated dots surrounding the center spot. These surrounding, or secondary, spots work to support the center. Should the subject make a move out of the center point's AF control territory and into a support focus point's territory faster than I can shift the center point to keep up, the secondary point instantly activates and takes over responsibility for achieving the correct focus. Pentax designated the center cluster of points to be most accurate. As the secondary points move further away from the center, they are less accurate. Imagine a 'smart' shotgun shell with its center cluster of shot the proper size/weight/shape for the charge surrounded by smaller and smaller shot. Plus, imagine the the differing 'AF Select Modes' working like a shotgun's 'smart' choke that determines NOT only the spread of the shot pattern, but the composition, as well. (Actually Nikon, Canon and others do something similar with their AF

)

As to AF-C Zone, the camera assumes the photographer is a total dumb a** and it decides where, which and when a focus point has priority. I'm a control freak with slower reflexes and only somewhat of a dumb a**. As such, I use AF-C Select to feed my confirmation bias. Now, I might be all wrong, but once I got the AF-C Select Mode concept built into my work flow, my keeper rate jumped significantly.

Comments and questions are always welcome.

Cheers... M

good point on AFS , I can totally agree with you . I'm not sure about AFC . but still what works for you better that the right choice .
great conversation .

**nixxo2002** · 10-24-2022, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by Michaelina2

From your profile, I see you are a K-3 shooter. If that's still the case, I recommend AF-S+Spot. When I was a K-3 shooter, I found that model's AF-C did NOT fit my subject's needs.

My AF-C+Select (S, M, L) comments (above) only fit my K-3 MkIII experience. While they may have a similar appearance, the K-3 MkIII+updated FW is a completely different animal. Its AF-C behaves MUCH better than the same on the K-3 and K-3 MkII.

I apologize for the confusion, if any.

Cheers... M

i should updated my profile . I own k3 iii from day one .you are right k3 iii AFC complete different animal compare to k3 or k3ii .

Lloyd_Christmas · 02-26-2023, 10:08 AM

Feb 2023 entry:

I went to a different time zone and, of course, I was too busy and forgot to reset the clock on the mk III.
At some point, I connected my smart phone via wifi so that I could pull down a JPG.
The camera automatically synced the clock for me!!!
Yet another awesome feature! So for the rest of the trip, my time was correct on the metadata!
Go PENTAX

**Kobie** · 02-27-2023, 07:36 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by nixxo2002

great picture .
very interesting AF selection , but same time strange for me

. is any particular reason you are choosing AFC select mode over AFC zone with subject detection ? and AFS not with spot ?

The way it works in zone or full auto is that, if you have subject recognition on, it'll try to focus on everything and anything it recognizes. It's not like a MILC where you can tell the camera what type of subjects to recognize. I took a deep dive into the secondary "PENTAX" folder to see what was in there and it seems that there's a fair amount of subject recognition database stored in the card. Some of the subjects were clouds, trees, birds, flowers among other subjects. So if the camera recognizes a face, but ALSO recognizes a a tree or whatever else, it'll try to focus on either subject (you have no control over that). Using the SEL-EX modes allows you to have more control over the focus point (it starts at the center and tracks from there with the neighboring AF points). In AF.S you don't get the option of SEL-EX though, it's only for AF.C.

Lloyd_Christmas · 06-05-2023, 09:29 AM

I took my old K-3 mk I to the beach last week as I did not want sand or salt spray to get on my mk III.
Spending a week with the old mk I really made me appreciate the improved AF we now have.
The K-3 was constantly background focusing whereas the mk III does not do that anymore.
I may just have to find a way to protect the mk III at the beach because I was constantly frustrated with that old mk I.

Lloyd_Christmas · 10-28-2023, 07:41 AM

Vince's mk III tip of the day:

Related to workflow getting JPEGs to my iPhone easier and quicker...

I use the iPhone app to grab JPEGs from my mk III.
Said app can be slow if there are a lot of shots on the SD cards...mainly because it has to finish making thumbnails for all the files before it will let me download them.

Now, it used to be faster when I used Blue Tooth but now, with wifi, it is slow for some reason.

I have set up raw files to go to SD card slot 1 and JPEGs to go to the card in slot 2.
When I connect the phone app I simply select card 2 and the thumbnail creation phase goes pretty fast...probably because JPEG files are smaller.

I'm able to select JPEGs without them being mixed up with the raw files as well.

Lloyd_Christmas · 11-18-2023, 09:45 AM - **1 Like**

Not sure if it a firmware improvement or I just finally figured it out...but the bluetooth connection persistence for geo-tagging off of my iPhone is better!
As long as I leave the image sync app running on my iPhone it seems to stay connected even when turning the camera off and back on.
I tried it several times and it is better. The camera would go to sleep or the camera was turned off - this used to break the connection. After turning camera power back 'on' the geo-tag was still working (as I said if I leave the image sync app running in the background on the iPhone).

Previously, I had trouble keeping this connected even if the camera went to sleep.

10-23-2022, 11:00 AM	#1
Lloyd_Christmas Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 462	Vince's mk III observations thread... Couple observations about the AF function: I have the AF set up on back-button only and have gotten myself trained to use that. One downside is that if you are not pressing the back AF button while firing the shutter, you won't get the selected AF point on the info screen (post shot)...at least that is what I have found out. Another interesting thing is the times I use the AF button while set to use the full spread of AF points. I can see the little black squares that are chosen by the camera. When selecting the AF button again on same view, I get a different set of points. This goes on and on each time I select AF on same view. Is this just a scatterbrain AF system or is it a useful feature??? I'd like to think it is a useful thing...perhaps because I'm a Pentaxian. I will keep pressing the AF button until satisfied with the choice!

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10-23-2022, 11:42 AM	#2
AstroDave Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: May 2007 Location: Flagstaff, Arizona Posts: 1,648	Originally posted by Lloyd_Christmas This goes on and on each time I select AF on same view. Is this just a scatterbrain AF system or is it a useful feature??? Even though the view is the "same," even minor camera wiggle could well change the picked focus point(s) - especially if your scene is "busy." I prefer to set my specific focus point beforehand.

10-24-2022, 06:56 AM	#3
Lloyd_Christmas Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 462 Original Poster	Originally posted by Michaelina2 My K-3 MkIII "keeper rate" is highest using raw DNG, handheld with native light: P mode, AF-C, EV -0.07 (bright light) or EV -0.03 (cloudy), f-stop max open (DA300/4+HD1.4= f/5.6), minimum Shutter speed 1/lens' focal length (300mm lens= 1/300 sec)... higher shutter speed preferred, ISO=Auto (up to 25600... I adjust the shutter speed to set my desired ISO), Drive Mode=Continuous (M), Meter mode= Highlight weighted, Active area AF=front shutter button priority (slow roll my finger to half-press in order to set focus full press to snap the shot), AF active area 'Expanded area AF(S)'... I place the center AF point on the place I wish the camera to focus, half-press the front shutter button until I see the green hex, then fire away. K-3 MkIII, handheld, native light, crop, minimal PP, LrC+NIK... (click through to Flickr image for complete EXIF data)* Comments and questions are always welcome... M Thanks and I will definitely try this setup. Also, I will use a tripod and try my theory again on a busy scene. My hope that it works the way I believe it does. The camera usually picks a foreground object on a busy scene. What would be useful is if it moved points to more distant objects with each button press. For now it may just be issues with handheld tests....

10-24-2022, 01:21 PM	#4
nixxo2002 Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 824	Originally posted by Michaelina2 My K-3 MkIII "keeper rate" is highest using raw DNG, handheld with native light: P mode, AF-C, EV -0.07 (bright light) or EV -0.03 (cloudy), f-stop max open (DA300/4+HD1.4= f/5.6), minimum Shutter speed 1/lens' focal length (300mm lens= 1/300 sec)... higher shutter speed preferred, ISO=Auto (up to 25600... I adjust the shutter speed to set my desired ISO), Drive Mode=Continuous (M), Meter mode= Highlight weighted, Active area AF=front shutter button priority (slow roll my finger to half-press in order to set focus full press to snap the shot), AF active area 'Expanded area AF(S)'... I place the center AF point on the place I wish the camera to focus, half-press the front shutter button until I see the green hex, then fire away. K-3 MkIII, handheld, native light, crop, minimal PP, LrC+NIK... (click through to Flickr image for complete EXIF data)* Comments and questions are always welcome... M great picture . very interesting AF selection , but same time strange for me . is any particular reason you are choosing AFC select mode over AFC zone with subject detection ? and AFS not with spot ?

10-24-2022, 04:40 PM	#5
nixxo2002 Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 824	Originally posted by Michaelina2 Good observation/question... I'm a skeet shooter/upland bird hunter (Gun Dog Handler, Quail, Pheasant, etc.). Since I began rolling with Pentax, my go-to was AF-S+Spot focus. Shooting a dragonfly, or sparrow in flight with a 22... for me, that's AF-S+Spot... I can do it. OTOH: After fighting the K-3 MkIII's focus for several months, it dawned on me that Pentax may have flipped the table. Perhaps, AF-C+Select Mode should be my go-to. As I understand AF-C Select Mode, it works like 'spot focus'... similar to a shotgun's shot pattern, but not quite the same. Imagine the center dot as the master 'AF spot point'. It has priority focus over the other activated dots surrounding the center spot. These surrounding, or secondary, spots work to support the center. Should the subject make a move out of the center point's AF control territory and into a support focus point's territory faster than I can shift the center point to keep up, the secondary point instantly activates and takes over responsibility for achieving the correct focus. Pentax designated the center cluster of points to be most accurate. As the secondary points move further away from the center, they are less accurate. Imagine a 'smart' shotgun shell with its center cluster of shot the proper size/weight/shape for the charge surrounded by smaller and smaller shot. Plus, imagine the the differing 'AF Select Modes' working like a shotgun's 'smart' choke that determines NOT only the spread of the shot pattern, but the composition, as well. (Actually Nikon, Canon and others do something similar with their AF ) As to AF-C Zone, the camera assumes the photographer is a total dumb a and it decides where, which and when a focus point has priority. I'm a control freak with slower reflexes and only somewhat of a dumb a. As such, I use AF-C Select to feed my confirmation bias. Now, I might be all wrong, but once I got the AF-C Select Mode concept built into my work flow, my keeper rate jumped significantly. Comments and questions are always welcome. Cheers... M good point on AFS , I can totally agree with you . I'm not sure about AFC . but still what works for you better that the right choice . great conversation .

10-24-2022, 06:22 PM	#6
nixxo2002 Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 824	Originally posted by Michaelina2 From your profile, I see you are a K-3 shooter. If that's still the case, I recommend AF-S+Spot. When I was a K-3 shooter, I found that model's AF-C did NOT fit my subject's needs. My AF-C+Select (S, M, L) comments (above) only fit my K-3 MkIII experience. While they may have a similar appearance, the K-3 MkIII+updated FW is a completely different animal. Its AF-C behaves MUCH better than the same on the K-3 and K-3 MkII. I apologize for the confusion, if any. Cheers... M i should updated my profile . I own k3 iii from day one .you are right k3 iii AFC complete different animal compare to k3 or k3ii .

02-26-2023, 10:08 AM	#7
Lloyd_Christmas Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 462 Original Poster	Feb 2023 entry: I went to a different time zone and, of course, I was too busy and forgot to reset the clock on the mk III. At some point, I connected my smart phone via wifi so that I could pull down a JPG. The camera automatically synced the clock for me!!! Yet another awesome feature! So for the rest of the trip, my time was correct on the metadata! Go PENTAX

02-27-2023, 07:36 PM - 2 Likes	#8
Kobie Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Bowmanville Photos: Albums Posts: 1,211	Originally posted by nixxo2002 great picture . very interesting AF selection , but same time strange for me . is any particular reason you are choosing AFC select mode over AFC zone with subject detection ? and AFS not with spot ? The way it works in zone or full auto is that, if you have subject recognition on, it'll try to focus on everything and anything it recognizes. It's not like a MILC where you can tell the camera what type of subjects to recognize. I took a deep dive into the secondary "PENTAX" folder to see what was in there and it seems that there's a fair amount of subject recognition database stored in the card. Some of the subjects were clouds, trees, birds, flowers among other subjects. So if the camera recognizes a face, but ALSO recognizes a a tree or whatever else, it'll try to focus on either subject (you have no control over that). Using the SEL-EX modes allows you to have more control over the focus point (it starts at the center and tracks from there with the neighboring AF points). In AF.S you don't get the option of SEL-EX though, it's only for AF.C.

06-05-2023, 09:29 AM	#9
Lloyd_Christmas Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 462 Original Poster	I took my old K-3 mk I to the beach last week as I did not want sand or salt spray to get on my mk III. Spending a week with the old mk I really made me appreciate the improved AF we now have. The K-3 was constantly background focusing whereas the mk III does not do that anymore. I may just have to find a way to protect the mk III at the beach because I was constantly frustrated with that old mk I.

10-28-2023, 07:41 AM	#10
Lloyd_Christmas Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 462 Original Poster	Vince's mk III tip of the day: Related to workflow getting JPEGs to my iPhone easier and quicker... I use the iPhone app to grab JPEGs from my mk III. Said app can be slow if there are a lot of shots on the SD cards...mainly because it has to finish making thumbnails for all the files before it will let me download them. Now, it used to be faster when I used Blue Tooth but now, with wifi, it is slow for some reason. I have set up raw files to go to SD card slot 1 and JPEGs to go to the card in slot 2. When I connect the phone app I simply select card 2 and the thumbnail creation phase goes pretty fast...probably because JPEG files are smaller. I'm able to select JPEGs without them being mixed up with the raw files as well.

11-18-2023, 09:45 AM - 1 Like	#11
Lloyd_Christmas Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 462 Original Poster	Not sure if it a firmware improvement or I just finally figured it out...but the bluetooth connection persistence for geo-tagging off of my iPhone is better! As long as I leave the image sync app running on my iPhone it seems to stay connected even when turning the camera off and back on. I tried it several times and it is better. The camera would go to sleep or the camera was turned off - this used to break the connection. After turning camera power back 'on' the geo-tag was still working (as I said if I leave the image sync app running in the background on the iPhone). Previously, I had trouble keeping this connected even if the camera went to sleep.