Cold issues?

**jersey** · 02-28-2023, 01:34 PM

I have too. I used K-50 in -30 celsius and K-3 Mk III around -15 last year. It is just this winter that it started to behave like this.

As for lenses 20-40 and 60-250. Happens with both.

**mlag** · 02-28-2023, 03:29 PM

Your sdcard suffers in both high and low temperature?
Is it new, reputed brand and store? Or xtreme cheap from ebay...? Or old from older camera?

If the sdcard fails while writing pictures, it might disturb camera... maybe more card, less camera issue?
Card might be also temperature sensitive...

If carrying camera in cold , try to protect in between shootings.
Keep it out of wind, there is wind chill factor on top of measured temperatures.

Wheatfield · 02-28-2023, 04:09 PM

Occam's Razor says it's the battery. I left my K20 in the back of my truck for a week at -30ºC. When I found it I turned it on and took a couple of pictures.
I was expecting the batteries to be dead.
Much longer ago, I took my new to me LX and a K1000 out for a walk on a very cold Christmas day. It was about -40ºC. After a while the K1000 meter stopped working, and then the shutter froze partially open.
The LX meter stopped working shortly after that and I had to shoot with Mechanical speeds and no metering. The camera didn't quit.

Anyway, I think cameras can go much lower than their rated temperature provided they batteries are in good shape. Let your camera acclimatize to the cold, but keep the batteries warm. It might work better.

**UncleVanya** · 02-28-2023, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by jersey

Celsius, sorry. I am from EU

That’s a different thing entirely then. Not nearly as cold and well within the limits they specify the camera operates at.

**jersey** · 03-01-2023, 12:54 AM

Originally posted by mlag

Your sdcard suffers in both high and low temperature?
Is it new, reputed brand and store? Or xtreme cheap from ebay...? Or old from older camera?

Sandisc extreme pro 32GB uhs-ii, bought for K-3/3 when I got the camera. In theory they are ok down to -25 Celsius. And yeah, writing images to card fails randomly in all temperatures. I have two of those cards so I replaced them (i shot JPEG and use port 1 so second one is hardly used) and still same.

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Occam's Razor says it's the battery.

[...]

Anyway, I think cameras can go much lower than their rated temperature provided they batteries are in good shape. Let your camera acclimatize to the cold, but keep the batteries warm. It might work better.

Maybe. I try to get another OEM battery and check again. I know that cameras work in much lower temperatures, before global warming killed our winters K-50 was without problems working in temps reaching faaaaaar below most of Japan ever sees and NX1000 saw subarctic in winter: batteries were drained so fast that shots were counted in tens, not hundreds but other then this there were no issues.

That's why I am a bit dumbfound now, it is first time I see camera behaving like that.

**mlag** · 03-01-2023, 05:35 AM

Originally posted by jersey

Sandisc extreme pro 32GB uhs-ii, bought for K-3/3 when I got the camera. In theory they are ok down to -25 Celsius. And yeah, writing images to card fails randomly in all temperatures. I have two of those cards so I replaced them .

Formated in camera? Or on pc? Reformat in camera is advised.
Small card with adapter? It is additional contact that sometimes gives issues....(mine are fine however), maybe re-insert them...
Contacts should be clean/shiny copper surface, not dull, oxidated, but that would be odd on new cards.
Does it make difference with one or two in camera, does the camera gives failure indicators on same card or slot?
On a windows pc, you might try checkdsk or try format tool from sdcard.org to find card errors.

Sdcard should work reliable to allow smooth camera operation, but not sure what is wrong with yours...(if any)
my 2 sd cards on K-3II fail maybe once in a year and usually only after some brutal abuse (batt or card removed with camera still active...).

Ps: You are aware that if shooting series or having lens/ image corrections on in camera, the writing to sdcard might take time - like 20 seconds - and you shouldn't pull out battery too soon? Switch off camera is ok, it will finalise writing.

**jersey** · 03-01-2023, 06:13 AM

No adapter, formatted in camera. Checked contacts, reformatted in camera again. Never checked sectors for validity, but it should not have an impact on writing with flash memory.

PS - yes. I know, I rarely shot series, it happens in all fps modes, single too. And it is almost never few seconds, it just stops until I realize it and remove/reinsert battery.

**mlag** · 03-01-2023, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by jersey

No adapter, formatted in camera. Checked contacts, reformatted in camera again. Never checked sectors for validity, but it should not have an impact on writing with flash memory.

PS - yes. I know, I rarely shot series, it happens in all fps modes, single too. And it is almost never few seconds, it just stops until I realize it and remove/reinsert battery.

There is an indicator ’card access lamp’ next , right to the 4way dial/buttons on back of camera.
As long it is on/flashing, one should not:
- Open card door or remove cards
- remove battery
As this interrupts the card writing process, you end up with broken links in file structure on memory card, which can confuse camera sw... reformat is solution.

There are several reasons it might take time before camera writes to card, and they add up if more than one activ, requiring more camera processing time:
- raw+ jpg takes longer than one only
- series or bracketing or composites ...(works as multiplier, filling buffer with unprocessed images)
- lens distortion correction by camera (pentax lenses)
- custom image mode bright, natural, portrait,....
- digital filters high contrast, monochrome,...
- hdr , pixel shift
-...
Some will also delay showing the image on back display, remaining black without wait indication.

On my k-3II, I stopped using digital filter high contrast (even while it did a good job on mirror lenses with lousy lens contrast)
As it locked camera for several seconds after 3...5 birds pictures, there was always next bird.... and camera was not ready.
Postprocessing became more convenient for contrast correction.

**jersey** · 03-01-2023, 10:04 AM

I know, it is not my first camera.

It usually goes like this: I start camera, go shooting. Half an hour later and dozen of more photos I decide to check something or have some time and want to edit photos in camera. I press the view button and say third of my images from last 15 minutes were not recorded. I take a test shot, image is in buffer but is not written on memory card.

It is not like it takes long to clear buffer after long series, or pixel shifting or anything. It simply stops writing to card at one point and that's it. If once left camera simply sitting there for hour or so and it has not recovered by itself. I need to hard-restart whole camera to get it going again.

JohnMc · 03-01-2023, 10:45 AM

Is this only happening when you're out in the cold, or does it occur randomly in any environment?

Have you "reset" the camera settings? I believe* you can reapply the latest firmware w/o penalty, though you should confirm before doing.

Any chance that you could be errantly pushing/double pushing buttons, perhaps while gloved?

Reduce variables to try and isolate event.

**MossyRocks** · 03-01-2023, 11:03 AM

I would suspect that this is the massively shortened battery life issue and the battery not being able to put out enough current when cold problem. I have had similar issues when out shooting at night in the cold (-25F anyone) and it is murder on batteries. I have found that keeping things runnign helps avoid these problems to a degree since as the battery discharges it will self heat some. For astrophotography this means shooting with the continuous drive mode. When I have been out shooting in the cold not doing astro problems like what you describe are much more common. I always carry a couple extra batteries in an inner coat pocket so that when the first issue arises I can put a warm battery in and thaw the cold one.

I've done this with my K2000, K500, K-3, K-3ii, and K-3iii.

Try the warm battery swap and see if things get better until it freezes. If they don't then I would blame the camera.

**jersey** · 03-04-2023, 02:37 PM

Cold struck for two dais and I think I am bit closer to the at least finding out how issue number 1 (camera freezing and stopping operating lens and shutter) happens.

There is some sort of connection to aperture lever. It seems that when it happens, camera is in P or Tv modes and it goes toward lowest possible aperture number for the lens - then it is getting stuck. I do not know if it is physical or software glitch when it want to set lower aperture then possible for lens? When I zoom with lens or use the DOF peaking so try to change something with physical workings of lens, it unblocks.

Don't know what may cause this, but at least there is faster solution then switching off and on.

**RICHARD L.** · 03-06-2023, 05:19 AM

My K1 worked perfectly in minus 54 deg C (taking into account the windchill factor) two weeks ago. Nothing can stop this machine. Same with the K3 III.

**jersey** · 03-14-2023, 06:38 AM

Ok, I was able to film the issue, I could not replicate it with 40 or 20-40 so I will send film to service and request warranty check/repair on 60-250. Maybe there is some issue with lens. Though system will sometimes reset settings by himself if I use Hyper P in Hyper Tv mode it will reset to normal P at some point so I am not really sure if it is lens. Well, it costs me nothing. Got me pissed today as I missed some nice shot because of it. As you can see I can simply keep camera not doing anything and at some point it will restart.

You Tube

**UncleVanya** · 03-14-2023, 08:33 AM

Originally posted by jersey

Ok, I was able to film the issue, I could not replicate it with 40 or 20-40 so I will send film to service and request warranty check/repair on 60-250. Maybe there is some issue with lens. Though system will sometimes reset settings by himself if I use Hyper P in Hyper Tv mode it will reset to normal P at some point so I am not really sure if it is lens. Well, it costs me nothing. Got me pissed today as I missed some nice shot because of it. As you can see I can simply keep camera not doing anything and at some point it will restart.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btXYjvSqLfc

I wonder if you should send the camera with the lens.

03-06-2023, 05:19 AM	#28
RICHARD L. Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Quebec City, Quebec Posts: 6,582	My K1 worked perfectly in minus 54 deg C (taking into account the windchill factor) two weeks ago. Nothing can stop this machine. Same with the K3 III. Last edited by RICHARD L.; 03-06-2023 at 05:50 AM.

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02-28-2023, 01:34 PM	#16
jersey Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: 3City agglomeration Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,056 Original Poster	I have too. I used K-50 in -30 celsius and K-3 Mk III around -15 last year. It is just this winter that it started to behave like this. As for lenses 20-40 and 60-250. Happens with both.

02-28-2023, 03:29 PM	#17
mlag Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: Zuiderkempen - Grote Netewoud - Belgium Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,398	Your sdcard suffers in both high and low temperature? Is it new, reputed brand and store? Or xtreme cheap from ebay...? Or old from older camera? If the sdcard fails while writing pictures, it might disturb camera... maybe more card, less camera issue? Card might be also temperature sensitive... If carrying camera in cold , try to protect in between shootings. Keep it out of wind, there is wind chill factor on top of measured temperatures.

02-28-2023, 04:09 PM	#18
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Occam's Razor says it's the battery. I left my K20 in the back of my truck for a week at -30ºC. When I found it I turned it on and took a couple of pictures. I was expecting the batteries to be dead. Much longer ago, I took my new to me LX and a K1000 out for a walk on a very cold Christmas day. It was about -40ºC. After a while the K1000 meter stopped working, and then the shutter froze partially open. The LX meter stopped working shortly after that and I had to shoot with Mechanical speeds and no metering. The camera didn't quit. Anyway, I think cameras can go much lower than their rated temperature provided they batteries are in good shape. Let your camera acclimatize to the cold, but keep the batteries warm. It might work better.

02-28-2023, 04:56 PM	#19
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,403	Originally posted by jersey Celsius, sorry. I am from EU That’s a different thing entirely then. Not nearly as cold and well within the limits they specify the camera operates at.

03-01-2023, 12:54 AM	#20
jersey Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: 3City agglomeration Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,056 Original Poster	Originally posted by mlag Your sdcard suffers in both high and low temperature? Is it new, reputed brand and store? Or xtreme cheap from ebay...? Or old from older camera? Sandisc extreme pro 32GB uhs-ii, bought for K-3/3 when I got the camera. In theory they are ok down to -25 Celsius. And yeah, writing images to card fails randomly in all temperatures. I have two of those cards so I replaced them (i shot JPEG and use port 1 so second one is hardly used) and still same. Originally posted by Wheatfield Occam's Razor says it's the battery. [...] Anyway, I think cameras can go much lower than their rated temperature provided they batteries are in good shape. Let your camera acclimatize to the cold, but keep the batteries warm. It might work better. Maybe. I try to get another OEM battery and check again. I know that cameras work in much lower temperatures, before global warming killed our winters K-50 was without problems working in temps reaching faaaaaar below most of Japan ever sees and NX1000 saw subarctic in winter: batteries were drained so fast that shots were counted in tens, not hundreds but other then this there were no issues. That's why I am a bit dumbfound now, it is first time I see camera behaving like that.

03-01-2023, 05:35 AM	#21
mlag Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: Zuiderkempen - Grote Netewoud - Belgium Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,398	Originally posted by jersey Sandisc extreme pro 32GB uhs-ii, bought for K-3/3 when I got the camera. In theory they are ok down to -25 Celsius. And yeah, writing images to card fails randomly in all temperatures. I have two of those cards so I replaced them . Formated in camera? Or on pc? Reformat in camera is advised. Small card with adapter? It is additional contact that sometimes gives issues....(mine are fine however), maybe re-insert them... Contacts should be clean/shiny copper surface, not dull, oxidated, but that would be odd on new cards. Does it make difference with one or two in camera, does the camera gives failure indicators on same card or slot? On a windows pc, you might try checkdsk or try format tool from sdcard.org to find card errors. Sdcard should work reliable to allow smooth camera operation, but not sure what is wrong with yours...(if any) my 2 sd cards on K-3II fail maybe once in a year and usually only after some brutal abuse (batt or card removed with camera still active...). Ps: You are aware that if shooting series or having lens/ image corrections on in camera, the writing to sdcard might take time - like 20 seconds - and you shouldn't pull out battery too soon? Switch off camera is ok, it will finalise writing.

03-01-2023, 06:13 AM	#22
jersey Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: 3City agglomeration Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,056 Original Poster	No adapter, formatted in camera. Checked contacts, reformatted in camera again. Never checked sectors for validity, but it should not have an impact on writing with flash memory. PS - yes. I know, I rarely shot series, it happens in all fps modes, single too. And it is almost never few seconds, it just stops until I realize it and remove/reinsert battery.

03-01-2023, 09:54 AM	#23
mlag Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: Zuiderkempen - Grote Netewoud - Belgium Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,398	Originally posted by jersey No adapter, formatted in camera. Checked contacts, reformatted in camera again. Never checked sectors for validity, but it should not have an impact on writing with flash memory. PS - yes. I know, I rarely shot series, it happens in all fps modes, single too. And it is almost never few seconds, it just stops until I realize it and remove/reinsert battery. There is an indicator ’card access lamp’ next , right to the 4way dial/buttons on back of camera. As long it is on/flashing, one should not: - Open card door or remove cards - remove battery As this interrupts the card writing process, you end up with broken links in file structure on memory card, which can confuse camera sw... reformat is solution. There are several reasons it might take time before camera writes to card, and they add up if more than one activ, requiring more camera processing time: - raw+ jpg takes longer than one only - series or bracketing or composites ...(works as multiplier, filling buffer with unprocessed images) - lens distortion correction by camera (pentax lenses) - custom image mode bright, natural, portrait,.... - digital filters high contrast, monochrome,... - hdr , pixel shift -... Some will also delay showing the image on back display, remaining black without wait indication. On my k-3II, I stopped using digital filter high contrast (even while it did a good job on mirror lenses with lousy lens contrast) As it locked camera for several seconds after 3...5 birds pictures, there was always next bird.... and camera was not ready. Postprocessing became more convenient for contrast correction.

03-01-2023, 10:04 AM	#24
jersey Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: 3City agglomeration Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,056 Original Poster	I know, it is not my first camera. It usually goes like this: I start camera, go shooting. Half an hour later and dozen of more photos I decide to check something or have some time and want to edit photos in camera. I press the view button and say third of my images from last 15 minutes were not recorded. I take a test shot, image is in buffer but is not written on memory card. It is not like it takes long to clear buffer after long series, or pixel shifting or anything. It simply stops writing to card at one point and that's it. If once left camera simply sitting there for hour or so and it has not recovered by itself. I need to hard-restart whole camera to get it going again.

03-01-2023, 10:45 AM	#25
JohnMc Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2020 Posts: 655	Is this only happening when you're out in the cold, or does it occur randomly in any environment? Have you "reset" the camera settings? I believe* you can reapply the latest firmware w/o penalty, though you should confirm before doing. Any chance that you could be errantly pushing/double pushing buttons, perhaps while gloved? Reduce variables to try and isolate event.

03-01-2023, 11:03 AM	#26
MossyRocks Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Minnesota Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,982	I would suspect that this is the massively shortened battery life issue and the battery not being able to put out enough current when cold problem. I have had similar issues when out shooting at night in the cold (-25F anyone) and it is murder on batteries. I have found that keeping things runnign helps avoid these problems to a degree since as the battery discharges it will self heat some. For astrophotography this means shooting with the continuous drive mode. When I have been out shooting in the cold not doing astro problems like what you describe are much more common. I always carry a couple extra batteries in an inner coat pocket so that when the first issue arises I can put a warm battery in and thaw the cold one. I've done this with my K2000, K500, K-3, K-3ii, and K-3iii. Try the warm battery swap and see if things get better until it freezes. If they don't then I would blame the camera.

03-04-2023, 02:37 PM	#27
jersey Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: 3City agglomeration Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,056 Original Poster	Cold struck for two dais and I think I am bit closer to the at least finding out how issue number 1 (camera freezing and stopping operating lens and shutter) happens. There is some sort of connection to aperture lever. It seems that when it happens, camera is in P or Tv modes and it goes toward lowest possible aperture number for the lens - then it is getting stuck. I do not know if it is physical or software glitch when it want to set lower aperture then possible for lens? When I zoom with lens or use the DOF peaking so try to change something with physical workings of lens, it unblocks. Don't know what may cause this, but at least there is faster solution then switching off and on.

03-14-2023, 08:33 AM	#30
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,403	Originally posted by jersey Ok, I was able to film the issue, I could not replicate it with 40 or 20-40 so I will send film to service and request warranty check/repair on 60-250. Maybe there is some issue with lens. Though system will sometimes reset settings by himself if I use Hyper P in Hyper Tv mode it will reset to normal P at some point so I am not really sure if it is lens. Well, it costs me nothing. Got me pissed today as I missed some nice shot because of it. As you can see I can simply keep camera not doing anything and at some point it will restart. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btXYjvSqLfc I wonder if you should send the camera with the lens.