Noise reduction in camera or not

davidxgreen · 03-30-2023, 09:27 AM

On previous cameras i understood that noise reduction should be done in post processing. But on the K3 iii should I allow NR in camera? I'm tending to trust most other things with this fabulous new camera.

tryphon4 · 03-30-2023, 10:20 AM

If I remember correctly, in-camera noise reduction is used if you shoot JPEG photos.
In RAW, you may see no difference.

Then, another point is the software you use to edit your photos: many software give incredible results when removing noise (especially the new IA based ones.)
I doubd that in-camera software can give such results.

pschlute · 03-30-2023, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by davidxgreen

On previous cameras i understood that noise reduction should be done in post processing. But on the K3 iii should I allow NR in camera? I'm tending to trust most other things with this fabulous new camera.

You are always going to get better results (depending on image) by using software rather than camera to do post processing.

But if you are referring to long exposure NR in-camera by Dark Frame Subtraction, this can only be done in-camera. Whether it makes a difference can only be decided by you by experimenting.

kypfer · 03-30-2023, 02:58 PM - **1 Like**

For initial tests, try saving the images as RAW+JPG, then you'll have a good idea of what the camera is capable of and also have the option to take the RAW into software for extra work if necessary.
After not too long you'll be able to decide whether to trust the camera

hcc · 03-30-2023, 03:02 PM

You already got some good advice.

I would re-state that noise reduction is best done during post-processing on computer, not in camera.

I use both Noiseware and DCU for noise reduction. Typically I use DCU for fast simple noise reduction. But I prefer the results of Noiseware, and I found Noiseware more pleasing/efficient when there are strong noises.

Furthermore, I shot a lot with high-speed continuous shooting. I always to minimise any in-camera PP to speed up the write-up on the card and free the buffer.

I hope that the comment may help.

**UncleVanya** · 03-30-2023, 03:14 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by kypfer

For initial tests, try saving the images as RAW+JPG, then you'll have a good idea of what the camera is capable of and also have the option to take the RAW into software for extra work if necessary.
After not too long you'll be able to decide whether to trust the camera

You can also manually take dark frames and subtract them in post.

davidxgreen · 03-30-2023, 11:11 PM

Thanks a bunch. Pretty much what I thought but as kypfer suggests I can certainly have a play with it in RAW+jpeg. I thought the NR would impact the RAW file just like the white balance does. e.g. it's RAW but with the right white balance it saves time in post, already doing a lot of the work.Thanks again

**UncleVanya** · 03-30-2023, 11:37 PM

The accelerator chip does some noise reduction that can’t be turned off and is baked into raw.

mctaveck · 03-30-2023, 11:44 PM - **1 Like**

I am using Topaz Denoise AI and I think it does a great job. I have never reached that level using in camera NR in any Pentax camera I had. As far as me and Unclevania knows raw files has some NR "baked in" and you cannot do without One of the thing I would really really like to see in one of the next firmware upgrade, rather then another seasonal-single-lens-profile, is a menu option that can let the user decide whether the raw NR is ON or OFF, just like what has been done for JPG.
I don't know if this technically possible, I'd say yes but...

**Papa_Joe** · 03-31-2023, 03:00 AM

I can not understand, why allways people want to switch of the noice reduction of the accelerator chip.
What do you think is happening on the sensor itself? There is allways a noise reduction built into the hardware. Else you would not get ISO 1.600 without nearly no dark noise and the reduce noise level we now appreciate. And now it is bad because Ricoh decided that an additional hardware NR would be a good thing and placed it into the accelerator chip.

If one wants to do with as less hardware NR as possible, I suggest to buy a K-20D or a istD*, use it with ISO 800 and then do the NR reduction in post. Have fun!

By the way, what do you think the accelerator unit in the K-70 is doing? No one ever complained about that one. Every one praises it's low light performance.
Here is the answer: https://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/products/k-70/feature/02.html
Oops, the KP has an accelerator unit as well. Might someone check the K-3iii?

**JensE** · 03-31-2023, 03:31 AM

Originally posted by davidxgreen

Thanks a bunch. Pretty much what I thought but as kypfer suggests I can certainly have a play with it in RAW+jpeg. I thought the NR would impact the RAW file just like the white balance does. e.g. it's RAW but with the right white balance it saves time in post, already doing a lot of the work.Thanks again

White balance estimates of the camera are just recorded as metadata in the raw file, it is not affecting the raw values. The baked-in noise reduction does, but can't be influenced by settings other than choosing a high ISO vs. pushing 'exposure' in post anyway. What's changeable are 'High ISO Noise Reduction' (or such in the menu), which will only affect the JPEG file and 'Long exposure noise reduction', which uses an automated dark frame subtraction and thus does impact the raw data. That saves overhead compared to taking dark frames manually and subtracting them later.

I usually enable high ISO noise reduction only if I want to use the JPEG, but have long exposure NR on auto most of the time - off for stitched panoramas and astro photos, for which I handle darks manually.

mctaveck · 03-31-2023, 08:27 AM

Originally posted by Papa_Joe

If one wants to do with as less hardware NR as possible, I suggest to buy a K-20D or a istD*, use it with ISO 800 and then do the NR reduction in post. Have fun!

what problem do YOU have in having a default voice in the menu you can pass by and leave other people in the peace with what they want? Thanks for the suggestion that is ... not too polite unless you'd like to read what you agree about, only and solely.

Since this thread has a quite clear title I think you better not say other people what they should or should not say about the topic, at least "it sounds" like this

peace and love

Danilo

---------- Post added 03-31-23 at 08:30 AM ----------

Originally posted by Papa_Joe

Might someone check the K-3iii?

Yes I have it and I previously had K200D, K5, Kp, K3. I am not sure, though, whether you're interested in a sincere opinion from myself or not...

gatorguy · 03-31-2023, 09:01 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by mctaveck

what problem do YOU have in having a default voice in the menu you can pass by and leave other people in the peace with what they want? Thanks for the suggestion that is ... not too polite unless you'd like to read what you agree about, only and solely.

Since this thread has a quite clear title I think you better not say other people what they should or should not say about the topic, at least "it sounds" like this

peace and love

Danilo

---------- Post added 03-31-23 at 08:30 AM ----------

Yes I have it and I previously had K200D, K5, Kp, K3. I am not sure, though, whether you're interested in a sincere opinion from myself or not...

I don't think anyone is intentionally trying to be rude or insulting, nor is anyone out to get you. Relax a bit, enjoy the advice and insights.

Some forums are not all that friendly and personal attacks might be the expectation. We aren't that kind of forum.

We're looking forward to your posting of your experience with whatever camera you decide on.

Oldbayrunner · 03-31-2023, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by Papa_Joe

I can not understand, why allways people want to switch of the noice reduction of the accelerator chip.
What do you think is happening on the sensor itself? There is allways a noise reduction built into the hardware. Else you would not get ISO 1.600 without nearly no dark noise and the reduce noise level we now appreciate. And now it is bad because Ricoh decided that an additional hardware NR would be a good thing and placed it into the accelerator chip.

If one wants to do with as less hardware NR as possible, I suggest to buy a K-20D or a istD*, use it with ISO 800 and then do the NR reduction in post. Have fun!

By the way, what do you think the accelerator unit in the K-70 is doing? No one ever complained about that one. Every one praises it's low light performance.
Here is the answer: Features2 | PENTAX K-70 | RICOH IMAGING
Oops, the KP has an accelerator unit as well. Might someone check the K-3iii?

This would depend on whether someone is shooting and processing Jpegs since with the exception of Long exposure noise reduction in camera raw is not effected by using those settings. Even then with jpeg it is more advantageous to do noise reduction work via post processing software as one has more control over manipulating how noise reduction is being applied. However if one doesn't like post processing then the option is there for the use.

To me a cameras low light performance capabilities are best controlled by using the cameras exposure settings and lens combination not necessarily the use of in camera noise processing.

bschriver11 · 03-31-2023, 03:00 PM - **1 Like**

I have no problem using the in camera noise reduction as it does a pretty good job. Now if I'm photographing something really important or want a large print then I will turn to post processing but I don't feel the need to to that for every photo I take. I do customize the noise reduction setting in the camera to my liking.

03-30-2023, 09:27 AM	#1
davidxgreen Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London Posts: 271	Noise reduction in camera or not On previous cameras i understood that noise reduction should be done in post processing. But on the K3 iii should I allow NR in camera? I'm tending to trust most other things with this fabulous new camera.

03-31-2023, 03:00 AM	#10
Papa_Joe Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: SW Bavaria Posts: 562	I can not understand, why allways people want to switch of the noice reduction of the accelerator chip. What do you think is happening on the sensor itself? There is allways a noise reduction built into the hardware. Else you would not get ISO 1.600 without nearly no dark noise and the reduce noise level we now appreciate. And now it is bad because Ricoh decided that an additional hardware NR would be a good thing and placed it into the accelerator chip. If one wants to do with as less hardware NR as possible, I suggest to buy a K-20D or a istD, use it with ISO 800 and then do the NR reduction in post. Have fun! By the way, what do you think the accelerator unit in the K-70 is doing? No one ever complained about that one. Every one praises it's low light performance. Here is the answer: https://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/products/k-70/feature/02.html Oops, the KP has an accelerator unit as well. Might someone check the K-3iii? Last edited by Papa_Joe; 03-31-2023 at 03:09 AM.*

03-31-2023, 09:01 AM - 2 Likes	#13
gatorguy Moderator Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Central Florida Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,092	Originally posted by mctaveck what problem do YOU have in having a default voice in the menu you can pass by and leave other people in the peace with what they want? Thanks for the suggestion that is ... not too polite unless you'd like to read what you agree about, only and solely. Since this thread has a quite clear title I think you better not say other people what they should or should not say about the topic, at least "it sounds" like this peace and love Danilo ---------- Post added 03-31-23 at 08:30 AM ---------- Yes I have it and I previously had K200D, K5, Kp, K3. I am not sure, though, whether you're interested in a sincere opinion from myself or not... I don't think anyone is intentionally trying to be rude or insulting, nor is anyone out to get you. Relax a bit, enjoy the advice and insights. Some forums are not all that friendly and personal attacks might be the expectation. We aren't that kind of forum. We're looking forward to your posting of your experience with whatever camera you decide on. Last edited by gatorguy; 03-31-2023 at 09:56 AM.

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03-30-2023, 10:20 AM	#2
tryphon4 Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Drome, France Posts: 304	If I remember correctly, in-camera noise reduction is used if you shoot JPEG photos. In RAW, you may see no difference. Then, another point is the software you use to edit your photos: many software give incredible results when removing noise (especially the new IA based ones.) I doubd that in-camera software can give such results.

03-30-2023, 12:20 PM	#3
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,202	Originally posted by davidxgreen On previous cameras i understood that noise reduction should be done in post processing. But on the K3 iii should I allow NR in camera? I'm tending to trust most other things with this fabulous new camera. You are always going to get better results (depending on image) by using software rather than camera to do post processing. But if you are referring to long exposure NR in-camera by Dark Frame Subtraction, this can only be done in-camera. Whether it makes a difference can only be decided by you by experimenting.

03-30-2023, 02:58 PM - 1 Like	#4
kypfer Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Jersey C.I. Posts: 3,593	For initial tests, try saving the images as RAW+JPG, then you'll have a good idea of what the camera is capable of and also have the option to take the RAW into software for extra work if necessary. After not too long you'll be able to decide whether to trust the camera

03-30-2023, 03:02 PM	#5
hcc Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,002	You already got some good advice. I would re-state that noise reduction is best done during post-processing on computer, not in camera. I use both Noiseware and DCU for noise reduction. Typically I use DCU for fast simple noise reduction. But I prefer the results of Noiseware, and I found Noiseware more pleasing/efficient when there are strong noises. Furthermore, I shot a lot with high-speed continuous shooting. I always to minimise any in-camera PP to speed up the write-up on the card and free the buffer. I hope that the comment may help.

03-30-2023, 03:14 PM - 1 Like	#6
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,403	Originally posted by kypfer For initial tests, try saving the images as RAW+JPG, then you'll have a good idea of what the camera is capable of and also have the option to take the RAW into software for extra work if necessary. After not too long you'll be able to decide whether to trust the camera You can also manually take dark frames and subtract them in post.

03-30-2023, 11:11 PM	#7
davidxgreen Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London Posts: 271 Original Poster	Thanks a bunch. Pretty much what I thought but as kypfer suggests I can certainly have a play with it in RAW+jpeg. I thought the NR would impact the RAW file just like the white balance does. e.g. it's RAW but with the right white balance it saves time in post, already doing a lot of the work.Thanks again

03-30-2023, 11:37 PM	#8
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,403	The accelerator chip does some noise reduction that can’t be turned off and is baked into raw.

03-30-2023, 11:44 PM - 1 Like	#9
mctaveck Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 165	I am using Topaz Denoise AI and I think it does a great job. I have never reached that level using in camera NR in any Pentax camera I had. As far as me and Unclevania knows raw files has some NR "baked in" and you cannot do without One of the thing I would really really like to see in one of the next firmware upgrade, rather then another seasonal-single-lens-profile, is a menu option that can let the user decide whether the raw NR is ON or OFF, just like what has been done for JPG. I don't know if this technically possible, I'd say yes but...

03-31-2023, 03:31 AM	#11
JensE Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Leipzig Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,969	Originally posted by davidxgreen Thanks a bunch. Pretty much what I thought but as kypfer suggests I can certainly have a play with it in RAW+jpeg. I thought the NR would impact the RAW file just like the white balance does. e.g. it's RAW but with the right white balance it saves time in post, already doing a lot of the work.Thanks again White balance estimates of the camera are just recorded as metadata in the raw file, it is not affecting the raw values. The baked-in noise reduction does, but can't be influenced by settings other than choosing a high ISO vs. pushing 'exposure' in post anyway. What's changeable are 'High ISO Noise Reduction' (or such in the menu), which will only affect the JPEG file and 'Long exposure noise reduction', which uses an automated dark frame subtraction and thus does impact the raw data. That saves overhead compared to taking dark frames manually and subtracting them later. I usually enable high ISO noise reduction only if I want to use the JPEG, but have long exposure NR on auto most of the time - off for stitched panoramas and astro photos, for which I handle darks manually.

03-31-2023, 08:27 AM	#12
mctaveck Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 165	Originally posted by Papa_Joe If one wants to do with as less hardware NR as possible, I suggest to buy a K-20D or a istD*, use it with ISO 800 and then do the NR reduction in post. Have fun! what problem do YOU have in having a default voice in the menu you can pass by and leave other people in the peace with what they want? Thanks for the suggestion that is ... not too polite unless you'd like to read what you agree about, only and solely. Since this thread has a quite clear title I think you better not say other people what they should or should not say about the topic, at least "it sounds" like this peace and love Danilo ---------- Post added 03-31-23 at 08:30 AM ---------- Originally posted by Papa_Joe Might someone check the K-3iii? Yes I have it and I previously had K200D, K5, Kp, K3. I am not sure, though, whether you're interested in a sincere opinion from myself or not...

03-31-2023, 01:12 PM	#14
Oldbayrunner Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,665	Originally posted by Papa_Joe I can not understand, why allways people want to switch of the noice reduction of the accelerator chip. What do you think is happening on the sensor itself? There is allways a noise reduction built into the hardware. Else you would not get ISO 1.600 without nearly no dark noise and the reduce noise level we now appreciate. And now it is bad because Ricoh decided that an additional hardware NR would be a good thing and placed it into the accelerator chip. If one wants to do with as less hardware NR as possible, I suggest to buy a K-20D or a istD*, use it with ISO 800 and then do the NR reduction in post. Have fun! By the way, what do you think the accelerator unit in the K-70 is doing? No one ever complained about that one. Every one praises it's low light performance. Here is the answer: Features2 \| PENTAX K-70 \| RICOH IMAGING Oops, the KP has an accelerator unit as well. Might someone check the K-3iii? This would depend on whether someone is shooting and processing Jpegs since with the exception of Long exposure noise reduction in camera raw is not effected by using those settings. Even then with jpeg it is more advantageous to do noise reduction work via post processing software as one has more control over manipulating how noise reduction is being applied. However if one doesn't like post processing then the option is there for the use. To me a cameras low light performance capabilities are best controlled by using the cameras exposure settings and lens combination not necessarily the use of in camera noise processing.

03-31-2023, 03:00 PM - 1 Like	#15
bschriver11 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2008 Location: Maryland Photos: Gallery Posts: 558	I have no problem using the in camera noise reduction as it does a pretty good job. Now if I'm photographing something really important or want a large print then I will turn to post processing but I don't feel the need to to that for every photo I take. I do customize the noise reduction setting in the camera to my liking.