[btnapa]

The other option is a forum member who converts cameras to monochrome…

Thanks. I remember his post a few months ago. I can convert a K5IIs I have that I do not use. I am in no hurry, I can wait to see some more side by sides and field reports before a decision.

[photoptimist]

Those side by side images show the superiority of a monochrome sensor.

Bayer filter cameras have two big problems when it comes to trying to create B&W images. First, a Bayer filter throws out more than 2/3rds of the incoming light. Each color-filter on the sensor obliterates almost all of the light that's not that filter's color and even removes some of the light of the correct color. Second, Bayer filter cameras simply cannot see most of the chromatic microstructure of the subject. The red and green pixels (3/4s of the pixels) are blind to microstructure in blue. The green and blue pixels (3/4s of the pixels) are blind to microstructure in red. And the red and blue pixels (1/2 of the pixels) are blind to microstructure in green. To a first approximation, the color version of the K3III is really a 6.4 MPix red-channel camera plus a 6.4 MPix blue-channel camera plus a 12.8 MPix green-channel camera. Ironically, a monochrome sensor gets higher resolution luminance data for strongly colored microstructure subjects than a color sensor camera does.

Post processing software can make a Bayer filter image "look sharper" but it cannot recover detail lost because the sensor never saw it. A tiny red star or red berry that has the misfortune to fall on a green or blue pixel (and that can happen up to 75% of the time!) will simply not appear in the image and no amount of post processing can recover data that was never collected. (Yes, you can use an optical low pass filter or softer lens to ensure that every single-pixel subject gets blurred so it covers 4 pixels but that creates it's own unavoidable problems in requiring stronger deblurring that adds even more noise to the final image.)

(Note: the one advantage of Bayer filter cameras have for monochrome work is that the photographer can tune the color filtration in post to help dial in the contrast. With a monochrome camera, the photographer has to pick a color filter in the field and live with the results. Of course, it's easy for the photographer to hold various color filters in front of their eye to quickly see the contrast effects.)

[gatorguy]

If you want a WWII look to your pictures, you can add colors in post, using color Guesstimator AI software.

In order to make this into a serious instead of silliness reply:

There are now numerous AI colorizer apps on-line, some free, if you have certain black and whites that you wish to convert to color, most popular being old photos of grandparents, homesteads, and other images of past generations. There's also AKVIS Coloriage software(paid) which can be used standalone or as a PS plug-in, and giving you more local control over the final product.

[UncleVanya]

Instead of scoring touchdowns, Pentax has been in a decades-old struggle of punting its way to the finish line. Even Leica, the ultimate niche player, enjoys support from third parties with lenses, cases and all matter of accessories. This is critical to maintaining and growing a customer base. Pentax has no such following and now they're punting the football in every direction except the goal posts. Sure, the Monochrome will appeal to the low hanging fruit and no doubt it is an appealing camera for fans of B&W photography. But also recognize the speed in which post processing software is advancing to potentially erase any advantages that a B&W sensor provides. Until we see Sony, Canon and Nikon follow suit, I don't see the Monochrome doing much for growing the Pentax brand nor expanding the market for dedicated B&W cameras.

Third party monochrome conversion is already available for most of the larger brands. Sony conversion for example is about $1200 added and voids warranty.

[leekil]

But also recognize the speed in which post processing software is advancing to potentially erase any advantages that a B&W sensor provides.

Post processing with AI can maybe "manufacture" data that is lost by a color Bayer filter; but wouldn't you rather have the actual image data in the first place? The monochrome sensor doesn't lose any of the b&w image data, unlike a color sensor image converted to monochrome.

[phoebus]

Instead of scoring touchdowns, Pentax has been in a decades-old struggle of punting its way to the finish line. Even Leica, the ultimate niche player, enjoys support from third parties with lenses, cases and all matter of accessories. This is critical to maintaining and growing a customer base. Pentax has no such following and now they're punting the football in every direction except the goal posts. Sure, the Monochrome will appeal to the low hanging fruit and no doubt it is an appealing camera for fans of B&W photography. But also recognize the speed in which post processing software is advancing to potentially erase any advantages that a B&W sensor provides. Until we see Sony, Canon and Nikon follow suit, I don't see the Monochrome doing much for growing the Pentax brand nor expanding the market for dedicated B&W cameras.

Surely the fact that Ricoh/Pentax DO provide something that CaNikony don't IS a positive for Pentax market share?

Also, I don't believe Sigma or Tamron produce anything for Leica M mount. They do still have some Pentax K mount products.

The K3iii is already a great DSLR and I'll proudly consider myself to be 'low hanging fruit' and support Ricoh/Pentax with sales of the K3iiim...

Where are your goalposts, mirrorless?

[bwgv001]

Ned Bunnell | Flickr

[biz-engineer]

In order to make this into a serious instead of silliness reply:There are now numerous AI colorizer apps on-line, some free, if you have certain black and whites that you wish to convert to color, most popular being old photos of grandparents, homesteads, and other images of past generations. There's also AKVIS Coloriage software(paid) which can be used standalone or as a PS plug-in, and giving you more local control over the final product.

Software engineers are playing with fire. Looks like photography is becoming more and more a credit card art form, you pull your credit card and you get images made for you via algorithm developed by software engineers, just leaving a little bit press button here and there so that the credit card owner doesn't realize everything is canned from a database. For most photographers, taking pictures is a way to express their creativity. As more software automation take creativity away from people, more photographers will leave digital behind and go back to film.

---------- Post added 18-04-23 at 09:28 ----------

Ned Bunnell | Flickr

Looking at K3III mono pictures, they are tack sharp and have a film look, especially the high iso / film grain.

[Rondec]

Instead of scoring touchdowns, Pentax has been in a decades-old struggle of punting its way to the finish line. Even Leica, the ultimate niche player, enjoys support from third parties with lenses, cases and all matter of accessories. This is critical to maintaining and growing a customer base. Pentax has no such following and now they're punting the football in every direction except the goal posts. Sure, the Monochrome will appeal to the low hanging fruit and no doubt it is an appealing camera for fans of B&W photography. But also recognize the speed in which post processing software is advancing to potentially erase any advantages that a B&W sensor provides. Until we see Sony, Canon and Nikon follow suit, I don't see the Monochrome doing much for growing the Pentax brand nor expanding the market for dedicated B&W cameras.

From what I can tell, Leica doesn't really have much third party support, unless you are going to call the L mount alliance "Leica." I'm pretty sure that most of the L mount cameras sold are Panasonics, but I could be wrong. As far as the M mount went, there sure wasn't a whole lot out there from Sigma and other brands for it.

As far as this effort from Pentax, there are two things about it. (1) Pentax does best when they don't match up directly with Nikon and Canon and Sony. Releasing a second rate MILC that is at, say, the Z6 level is a nothing burger. It wouldn't make a splash and would be reviewed harshly as compared to the plethora of MILCs already out there. (2) The K-3 III monochrome has already sold out its initial run. We don't know how many cameras they planned for that run -- certainly not millions, but regardless, it can't be viewed as a negative to sell out a version of the camera that is marked up 500 dollars over the regular variety.

I don't see any cause for angst with regard to this release. It isn't a game changer, but it certainly seems to be something that many people are interested in. The fact that it isn't for you doesn't mean that there aren't thousands of other people who are willing to invest in a 2200 dollar APS-C camera that only takes black and white images.

[RobA_Oz]

Instead of scoring touchdowns, Pentax has been in a decades-old struggle of punting its way to the finish line. Even Leica, the ultimate niche player, enjoys support from third parties with lenses, cases and all matter of accessories. This is critical to maintaining and growing a customer base. Pentax has no such following and now they're punting the football in every direction except the goal posts. Sure, the Monochrome will appeal to the low hanging fruit and no doubt it is an appealing camera for fans of B&W photography. But also recognize the speed in which post processing software is advancing to potentially erase any advantages that a B&W sensor provides. Until we see Sony, Canon and Nikon follow suit, I don't see the Monochrome doing much for growing the Pentax brand nor expanding the market for dedicated B&W cameras.

I’m afraid I don’t follow the logic in much of this, but anyway there are several points that could be borne in mind. Firstly, the Monochrome version of the K-3iii was one of a number of options canvassed by Ricoh some time ago, and was the second most requested variant after the matte black one. Both have now been delivered, so in terms of a manufacturer responding to its customer base, this is exemplary behaviour and something a larger-scale maker would probably have trouble reproducing. Secondly, accessories for the K-1 and K-3iii are available from the J-Limited group, who are often mistakenly referred to as a branch of Ricoh, but who are independent. Granted, we haven’t seen expensive watches like the Leica ones, but they’re operating in a very select and wealthy market there. Finally, the appearance of the K-3iii Monochrome has created a buzz of interest in the general photographic community, not just among the commentators, just as the film project. I’ve even read outraged Fujifilm fans condemning Fuji for not doing the same (and people say Pentax fans are one-eyed).

The decision to persist with DSLRs in the face of growing demand for EVILCs has been lampooned and lamented by commentators and users alike, but it was a reasoned decision on the part of Ricoh’s senior management. I don’t believe they regarded it as a path to marketplace domination, but one that would ensure the continued presence of the brand in the light of its small market share. From what has emerged since, I’d judge that it’s been a success in its own terms, and further that the latest projects have brought a lot of the derogatory comment on the brand to a sudden halt.

I’ll make a prediction, too, that Sony will be the first of the big manufacturers to release a monochrome version of one of their cameras, probably within the next twelve months. After all, they’ve got form with copying other features that have been pioneered in Pentax bodies, and a history of being willing to throw money at new products in order to maintain their image of leading technology change (even when they haven’t).

[Sandy Hancock]

Even Leica....enjoys support from third parties with lenses, cases and all matter of accessories. This is critical to maintaining and growing a customer base.

Funny, I thought good products and happy customers did that.

Pentax has no such following

Many thousands of members of Pentax Forums might beg to differ.

Sure, the Monochrome will appeal to the low hanging fruit

By "low hanging fruit", I suppose you mean "anyone who thinks differently from you".

post processing software is advancing to potentially erase any advantages that a B&W sensor provides.

How does that affect Pentax more than any other camera manufacturer?

Until we see Sony, Canon and Nikon follow suit, I don't see the Monochrome doing much for growing the Pentax brand nor expanding the market for dedicated B&W cameras.

I would have thought quite the opposite was true.

[house]

From what I can tell, Leica doesn't really have much third party support.

Quite a few brands make M mount lenses (Zeiss, Cosina, several Chinese brands) and there's plenty of accessories, bags etc made for Leica cameras.

If that's not third party support I don't know what is. Pentax certainly doesn't have a similar ecosystem .

[Rondec]

Quite a few brands make M mount lenses (Zeiss, Cosina, several Chinese brands) and there's plenty of accessories, bags etc made for Leica cameras.

If that's not third party support I don't know what is. Pentax certainly doesn't have a similar ecosystem .

Well, there are a few Sigma lenses still available, Samyang, Irix, and there's a Chinese brand that I forget the name that have K mount lenses. Not sure which has more available in the third party sphere.

[RobA_Oz]

Well, there are a few Sigma lenses still available, Samyang, Irix, and there's a Chinese brand that I forget the name that have K mount lenses. Not sure which has more available in the third party sphere.

The most useful accessory for Leica that I’ve seen (3rd-party lenses apart) is the half-case that used to come as standard with most cameras, years ago. Mind you, there was one dedicated to the Q when it appeared (I have one) and there are others for the bigger brands but none that I’ve found specifically for the K-1 or the APS-C Pentaxes (someone may prove me wrong – it’s a while since I looked). Anyway, most of the bags etc for Leica are vanity items, much like the Chanel or Louis Vuitton accessories that women seem to love. Well-made, probably, and to some extent useful, but vanity items nonetheless. There are other accessory items, of course, such as the thumb rest and colourful soft-close shutter buttons, but they just speak to aspects of the OEM design that are in some ways seen to be lacking. They’re all valid, in a sense, because people buy them, but much of this stuff is just showing off, and so is the J-Limited product, really.

As the learned Canadian economist and thinker J.K.Galbraith once put it: “The only purpose of excessive wealth is opulent display”.

[leekil]

As far as this effort from Pentax, there are two things about it. (1) Pentax does best when they don't match up directly with Nikon and Canon and Sony. Releasing a second rate MILC that is at, say, the Z6 level is a nothing burger. It wouldn't make a splash and would be reviewed harshly as compared to the plethora of MILCs already out there. (2) The K-3 III monochrome has already sold out its initial run. We don't know how many cameras they planned for that run -- certainly not millions, but regardless, it can't be viewed as a negative to sell out a version of the camera that is marked up 500 dollars over the regular variety.

I wouldn't call it marked up $500; the initial price of the K-3 II was $2000; you should be introduction price to introduction price for new models.

---------- Post added 04-22-23 at 07:09 PM ----------

Ned Bunnell | Flickr

I guess he's still got connections!