[m8o]

I've seen Gimbal heads in adverts, and don't really understand the principle. Are they the ultimate solution for this?

Like what do they offer over 3 axis pan heads, which are less expensive plus mostly seem more compact? (note, I'm not a long lens or heavy equipment person)

A stable smooth platform for tilt+panning the camera+lens setups (be it a sizable setup or not). A ball-head is made for a static scene. They're fine for rotation as I described; rotating at the base. But it all "falls apart" ["falls over" really ] if you wish to pan with it and need any up or down motion in addition to the rotation.

[bobmaxja]

Are there any that get tight enough or can handle the torque of a 300/2.8 + 2x TC + body + grip?

You need a gimpal head for that, nothing else will do the job

[Ratmagiclady]

I think John Flores there might have your simplest solution, but how would something like this do you?


Acratech GP Ballhead*::*Ballheads*::*Acratech

Kinda pricey, this one, but you can use this one for a pseudo-gimbal if you have a lens with a collar or whatnot, and it can like flip upside down to be a levelling pano head, and, yeah, it's still a ball, but it seems it might do what you want and be of a piece. But the site might give you some ideas, too.

There's always the cheaper solution of a 3-way head and a couple of plumb lines hung alongside the column, ie, work to get the tripod level and then just use the pan-head.

[Pauld]

Have seriously thought about that, Paul. Do they really solve that problem though?
Being still of the spherical pivot principle surely they'd still flop and dislocate all axes at once, no?

In theory yes but you have much better control with the grip and it locks instantly when you release it. Get yourself a hotshoe bubble level and you'll be set. I personally have a Slik head but the Vanguard GH-100 is incredibly tempting.

http://www.amazon.com/Vanguard-GH-100-Pistol-Grip-Ball/dp/B003XDE8TK%3FSubsc...N%3DB003XDE8TK

[les3547]

No matter how much I try and try and ... I just cannot get to love stoopid Ball Heads, and can't understand why they seem to attract such popularity. ?

I have two, no qualms at all in the quality area; and sure, ballheads do possess their few often acknowledged merits. But how could one possibly ignore that the inherent design poses such crude limitations for any form of serious use?

Such as: Anyone got any ideas how to overcome the most basic "flops-everywhere" problem with them, whereas you cannot even adjust a single axis independently without disrupting the other equally critical axis?

Compact yes, robust yes, convenient? No way Hosé! What's %#&*@! convenient about that above?! They're just an imprecise, time-wasting, over rated, too often expensive and pretentious, gimmick.

Definitely not befitting kit for a half-serious DLSR user! Convince me.

(Fwiw; main usage is broadscape and macro, with occasional 'other'.)

.R. -- The born pan-handler.

I had similar frustrations until I read a pro photographer recommending a type of ball head that cost what I thought was an outrageous price. The one I went with is a Vanguard, the ABH-120L Semi-Elliptical Ball Head (it cost less than what the pro recommended but was still about $200), and claims to hold 40 pounds. My thoughts were if I have a ball head that holds far more weight than I use, then the tensioning feature would hold the camera better where I place it.

And sure enough, tension it at the right spot and you can move your camera around or turn it to any angle, and it hold its place faithfully.

What I thought was an outrageous price I now see as the price that's paid for such precision and capability. The way it's made it might last a lifetime too.

[interested_observer]

I think John Flores there might have your simplest solution, but how would something like this do you?

Acratech GP Ballhead*::*Ballheads*::*Acratech

Kinda pricey, this one, but you can use this one for a pseudo-gimbal if you have a lens with a collar or whatnot, and it can like flip upside down to be a levelling pano head, and, yeah, it's still a ball, but it seems it might do what you want and be of a piece. But the site might give you some ideas, too.

There's always the cheaper solution of a 3-way head and a couple of plumb lines hung alongside the column, ie, work to get the tripod level and then just use the pan-head.

I started out with a plastic/aluminum tripod with a clunky 3 way head that I got off of ebay for 11 cents. Hated it, but learned what I liked and what I could not tolerate. I found a reasonable travel weight and sized tripod that I am currently using (Benro travel angel) and like - but it came with a freebie ballhead that I used once, hated it (just one lock down level) and again started looking. I spent an enormous amount - a small fortune on the Acratech GP ballhead. For me it was the perfect solution - and you will have to pry my dead hands off of it - its that good (YMMV...). Inverted - it is the perfect panning head (for single row panoramas). The gimbal is wonderful - maybe only 98% perfect - but good enough for me - holds the K20 with the 55-300 lens or my very heavy K 28 shift lens. Anyway - its rated to hold 25 lbs.

I had similar frustrations until I read a pro photographer recommending a type of ball head that cost what I thought was an outrageous price. The one I went with is a Vanguard, the ABH-120L Semi-Elliptical Ball Head (it cost less than what the pro recommended but was still about $200), and claims to hold 40 pounds. My thoughts were if I have a ball head that holds far more weight than I use, then the tensioning feature would hold the camera better where I place it.

And sure enough, tension it at the right spot and you can move your camera around or turn it to any angle, and it hold its place faithfully.

What I thought was an outrageous price I now see as the price that's paid for such precision and capability. The way it's made it might last a lifetime too.

The second variable tensioning / friction knob is the key, I found. The GP and Les' Vanguard operate very similarly. I too have found that you get what you pay for.

I wound up getting a second used tripod - a Manfrotto 3009 pro - that came with a Manfrotto ballhead - a 486RC2, I think (the price was great). I absolutely hate and despise that 486RC2 &%$#@*!% as much as I like the GP. Why - because it flops around - just one clamp down lever - no friction adjustment and the quick release clamp requires 2 hands (at least for me to operate) and the camera goes falling off. Looking for a replacement. I would buy a second GP but the $400 bucks is just tooooo expensive for a second one (as much as I would like to have another).

I picked up the second used tripod to support a full pano head - the Nodal Ninja 3 that works like a charm - for multi row panos. The NN3 has a rotating base, so all I really need is a leveling base (and that is probably what I will end up with). I have 2 tripods for my 2 camera bodies (K100 and K20) - because when I was using the NN I always saw another shot that I could have taken with my other body, however it was always too dark to hand hold - if I only had another tripod......

The GP only takes about 10 second to setup, level in all directions, and I get perfectly level panos - first time, all the time, and its so easy - no fumbling with leveling the tripod legs out (I could get close but not perfect - and wound up with a lot of panos that went either up hill or down hill.

The moral of the story - good mechanical support that operates well is neither cheap nor inexpensive.

[Ratmagiclady]

I started out with a plastic/aluminum tripod with a clunky 3 way head that I got off of ebay for 11 cents. Hated it, but learned what I liked and what I could not tolerate. I found a reasonable travel weight and sized tripod that I am currently using (Benro travel angel) and like - but it came with a freebie ballhead that I used once, hated it (just one lock down level) and again started looking. I spent an enormous amount - a small fortune on the Acratech GP ballhead. For me it was the perfect solution - and you will have to pry my dead hands off of it - its that good (YMMV...). Inverted - it is the perfect panning head (for single row panoramas). The gimbal is wonderful - maybe only 98% perfect - but good enough for me - holds the K20 with the 55-300 lens or my very heavy K 28 shift lens. Anyway - its rated to hold 25 lbs.



The second variable tensioning / friction knob is the key, I found. The GP and Les' Vanguard operate very similarly. I too have found that you get what you pay for.

I wound up getting a second used tripod - a Manfrotto 3009 pro - that came with a Manfrotto ballhead - a 486RC2, I think (the price was great). I absolutely hate and despise that 486RC2 &%$#@*!% as much as I like the GP. Why - because it flops around - just one clamp down lever - no friction adjustment and the quick release clamp requires 2 hands (at least for me to operate) and the camera goes falling off. Looking for a replacement. I would buy a second GP but the $400 bucks is just tooooo expensive for a second one (as much as I would like to have another).

I picked up the second used tripod to support a full pano head - the Nodal Ninja 3 that works like a charm - for multi row panos. The NN3 has a rotating base, so all I really need is a leveling base (and that is probably what I will end up with). I have 2 tripods for my 2 camera bodies (K100 and K20) - because when I was using the NN I always saw another shot that I could have taken with my other body, however it was always too dark to hand hold - if I only had another tripod......

The GP only takes about 10 second to setup, level in all directions, and I get perfectly level panos - first time, all the time, and its so easy - no fumbling with leveling the tripod legs out (I could get close but not perfect - and wound up with a lot of panos that went either up hill or down hill.

The moral of the story - good mechanical support that operates well is neither cheap nor inexpensive.

Nice to hear, btw. I really like that design: I might not likely spend so much if it came down to it, but they're a little spendy. (My needs aren't terribly-demanding: I've actually got a nice example of a budget Arca type ballhead that works great so far. I just don't expect it to stay nice forever under more use, ) but in a money-no-particular-object situation, I could see spending a bit more for for one of those, for the extra-abilities once-in-a-while. Not much call for gimbals in my photo world, but a reasonable facsimile once in a while.... Might be nice to have.


I've kind of got a default notion for tripodage based on the last place I really seemed to have call for one, and there I was actually possibly the most-experienced sports photog around. Which isn't saying much, but hey. Mostly I'd be doing some postcardey stuff but was resolved to help the local paper out and all.

Got my eye on like an Acratech head and either some squat Feisol legs or wood, though should we get back there. ...generally a purchase I'm putting off though till we get settled. Appreciate hearing the feedback there, though, it looks quite sensible but I'm not much for gimmickey things as a rule and tend to be skeptical.

[Digitalis]

My ballhead of choice is the B55 from RRS, it has a jewel like finish, and it's is extremely sturdy. However, even that has only been used a handful of times since I got my manfrotto 405 which has survived everything I have thrown at it including a pentax 645NII with a Pentax A*600mm f/5.6 - I posted a review for it here. I liked the 405 so much I actually bought a second one for the camera tree I use in my studio.

[Kerrowdown]

I must admit it's a ball head I use all the time, when a tripods in play. I just like to twiddle just one screw to get movement, for me a tad quicker.

Albeit mine is a precision engineered affair by Benbo, which I have also had fitted a seperate revolving base. The trick for me has always been not to loosen up too much, thereby the friction is enough to hold camera securely.

For the way I work, any big lens and camera combos tend always to be on a monopod, which I use with a fixed head, so again not a problem with slipping or creep.

I guess it all about how you work and what works for you.

[Arjay Bee]

Some retro gear here:
An Australian Company called Miller Tripods - Fluid Heads - Tripod Fluid Head - Miller Camera Support made the one in the picture below a couple of decades ago. Heavy as with steel spikes sandwiched in those wooden legs for feet. Full extension would raise the head to about 2m.



But what makes this interesting to the ball head discussion is the 'hemispherical' (slightly dished anyway) cup at the base of the fluid head that allows the head to be settled horizontally by the spirit level (can be seen just below the arrow head.

I have the head reversed to allow the tube at the rear of the velbon strut base to clear the handle. Handle can be removed or turned to one side. Tube allows for variation in the height of the camera base relative to the bottom of the tripod mount on the lens. Fits the K20D sans battery no worries.

This is super sturdy as an effective 700mm camera rig as all that is way lighter than a professional video camera.

[jolepp]

A Manfrotto 460MG might be worth checking out. After some head scratching I even managed to find an orientation that makes it possible to keep my right hand on the camera grip and use the left for the knobs without getting tied in a knot.

[Digitalis]

IMO The 460Mg is a bit too light for general purpose photography, but then again I work with this :

[jolepp]

Yup, the 460MG would be kind of skimpy for anything beoyond the DA 55-300 kind of thing. It allows separate control of the axes without costing quite as much as a geared job though. Simple, lightish and kind of small too. It is not so much the mechanical strength / load capacity, but simply that this works as long as the camera can conveniently be manipulated with the right hand on the grip and the left on one of the knobs; one cannot count on friction to help to hold things in place too much / at all .

[math guy]

Yes the main one I use is Vanguard SBH-100 which does have the full deal 2 screw knobs incl pretensioning and 360 pano.

.R.

In comparing the Vanguard you mention a similar Manfrotto head, I notice that while they both have two knobs, they state a different purpose for the second knob. Manfrotto says its second knob is for tension adjustment to allow fine-tuning of the composition, and Vanguard says its second knob is to allow panning.

Do you know whether these two are basically doing the same thing? More specifically, does the second knob on your Vanguard allow you to fine-tune composition in any orientation (not just horizontal panning)?

[Adam]

Moved to field accessories.