Camera wobbling on ball head plate

**jatrax** · 12-10-2011, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by audiobomber

The long cantilever effect is very demanding

Most long lenses have a lens mount for that reason. The length of the lens starts to put too much stress on the camera mount and body. But according to the lens database there is no mount for this one. I am not seeing an answer to this with that lens.

audiobomber · 12-10-2011, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by audiobomber

The problem is not rotational shift, It's vertical bounce or shake. It very well could be flex at the mount and/or in the camera body.

I just played around with a bunch of stuff. I tightened the mounting screw to what I thought was reasonable, then tightened it some more; no difference. I ground the tip of the mount plate screw; didn't help. I used a business card as a shim to prevent rocking; small benefit. I used Sorbothane (rubbery shock absorber and vibration damper) between the camera and mount plate. It helped a little.

IMO there are three issues:
1. Slop in the mount
2. The base of the camera is not perfectly flat, which leads to rocking
3. The plastic camera bottom flexes

I am quite certain my woes are all down to the design of my cameras and the unreasonable cantilever load presented by the A*300. I can minimize the bounce by keeping my hands off the lens while I'm shooting, but that's not always possible with a MF lens. I'm keeping the Induro ball head and Benro legs, I don't believe they are contributing in any way to the bounce. One of these days I'll buy a camera with a metal body, which should help. I'll go the rest of the way when Pentax releases a lens that's longer than 300mm and has a tripod mount. I may try to find a thin rubber membrane to make up for the rounded camera bottom, but it's a two-edged sword. Rocking is decreased, but the membrane has flex, which introduces its own instability.

Thanks to all who contributed ideas. If you have any more input, I'm more than interested.

stevebrot · 12-10-2011, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by audiobomber

IMO there are three issues:
1. Slop in the mount
2. The base of the camera is not perfectly flat, which leads to rocking
3. The plastic camera bottom flexes

Huh? I have the K10D (same basic chassis) and have none of the issues you describe. Unless your camera has internal damage to its chassis, it should not flex appreciably with a lens as light and compact as your A* 300/4. Truly.

I would point the finger at the plate first (screw too long or poor fit in the clamp not allowing a secure mount). BTW...how big is your plate? The minimum size for the K20D should be at least 50mm with a clamp at least that long. I use the Giottos MH 646 (LINK). It is cheap ($24 USD) and has anti-rotation tabs.

Second, I would point my finger at the tripod legs. When using my lightweight tripod and my heaviest lens with the K10D, I get a sag of about 1/4" at the lens tip with ALL of the motion traceable to the bowing (upward on one side and downward on the other) of the tripod legs just below their juncture with the spider. I have not used nor seen the Benro A2580, so can't comment whether this is the issue with your setup.

Steve

audiobomber · 12-10-2011, 02:11 PM

I don't see that it could be chassis damage to the K20, because the K-x is a little more shaky.
The PU60 plate is 60mm
I filed the screw down, the length is not an issue
The legs are not flexing, For my tests, I only extended two of four segments, and I can't feel any movement. The load spec for the legs is 22 lbs, the spec for the ball head is 24lb.

wlachan · 12-10-2011, 05:01 PM

From what you have described, it's really down to the design of Pentax bodies which flex since the MZ/ZX series. The vibration on tripod starts to become an issue with FA*200/2.8, and 300mm on crop DSLR is just unbearable I would imagine. If possible, you can try a mid-end metal Canon body with long tele and the difference is night & day.

cbope · 12-17-2011, 11:00 AM

Does the K-5 suffer from this body flex?

wlachan · 12-17-2011, 04:33 PM

I have never tried the K-5 on tripod so cannot tell.

cbope · 12-18-2011, 01:26 AM

Originally posted by wlachan

I have never tried the K-5 on tripod so cannot tell.

My new Manfrotto should be arriving next week before Xmas, so I'll know soon.

audiobomber · 12-18-2011, 04:22 AM

I made the original post. I find if I use the grip the system tightens up noticeably. The wider flatter bottom of the grip helps the interface between the camera and plate, and the grip holds the body without the rocking. It's still not ideal, but much better. I'll try another mounting plate and see if that helps. Brandrx has linked a strange tripod mount that fits on the A*300 which I should address the issue completely.

Originally posted by wlachan

If possible, you can try a mid-end metal Canon body with long tele and the difference is night & day.

I don't see why a metal-bodied Canon would be more solid than a metal-bodied Pentax.

Chris_T · 12-18-2011, 10:05 AM

Dan
Don't go out and buy another plate, I have one that is collecting dust that I will send you. It is a Kirk plate made for the K10-K20 grip. Please send me a PM with where to send it.

Cheers Chris

audiobomber · 12-18-2011, 11:47 AM

Thanks Chris. I emailed you.

12-18-2011, 10:05 AM	#25
Chris_T New Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Kitchener Ontario, Canada Posts: 17	Camera plate Dan Don't go out and buy another plate, I have one that is collecting dust that I will send you. It is a Kirk plate made for the K10-K20 grip. Please send me a PM with where to send it. Cheers Chris

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Tripod Head - Can I add Rotation to my current ball head	claimed4all	Pentax Camera and Field Accessories	5	10-11-2011 09:34 AM
For Sale - Sold: Slik AF 2100 ball head & extra QR plate (US)	dshombert	Sold Items	2	03-07-2011 09:20 PM
Small Ball Head on Large Tripod Plate	VaughnA	Pentax Camera and Field Accessories	7	09-22-2010 07:20 PM
For Sale - Sold: SLIK AF2100 Pistol Grip Ball Head w/extra Quick Release Plate (CONUS)	loveisageless	Sold Items	1	07-01-2010 11:18 AM
For Sale - Sold: Manfrotto 190 xproB; Ball head 486rc2 and ball head 808rc4	Not Registered	Sold Items	6	05-31-2008 06:06 AM

12-10-2011, 10:46 AM	#16
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by audiobomber The long cantilever effect is very demanding Most long lenses have a lens mount for that reason. The length of the lens starts to put too much stress on the camera mount and body. But according to the lens database there is no mount for this one. I am not seeing an answer to this with that lens.

12-10-2011, 10:59 AM	#17
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806 Original Poster	Originally posted by audiobomber The problem is not rotational shift, It's vertical bounce or shake. It very well could be flex at the mount and/or in the camera body. I just played around with a bunch of stuff. I tightened the mounting screw to what I thought was reasonable, then tightened it some more; no difference. I ground the tip of the mount plate screw; didn't help. I used a business card as a shim to prevent rocking; small benefit. I used Sorbothane (rubbery shock absorber and vibration damper) between the camera and mount plate. It helped a little. IMO there are three issues: 1. Slop in the mount 2. The base of the camera is not perfectly flat, which leads to rocking 3. The plastic camera bottom flexes I am quite certain my woes are all down to the design of my cameras and the unreasonable cantilever load presented by the A*300. I can minimize the bounce by keeping my hands off the lens while I'm shooting, but that's not always possible with a MF lens. I'm keeping the Induro ball head and Benro legs, I don't believe they are contributing in any way to the bounce. One of these days I'll buy a camera with a metal body, which should help. I'll go the rest of the way when Pentax releases a lens that's longer than 300mm and has a tripod mount. I may try to find a thin rubber membrane to make up for the rounded camera bottom, but it's a two-edged sword. Rocking is decreased, but the membrane has flex, which introduces its own instability. Thanks to all who contributed ideas. If you have any more input, I'm more than interested.

12-10-2011, 01:37 PM	#18
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by audiobomber IMO there are three issues: 1. Slop in the mount 2. The base of the camera is not perfectly flat, which leads to rocking 3. The plastic camera bottom flexes Huh? I have the K10D (same basic chassis) and have none of the issues you describe. Unless your camera has internal damage to its chassis, it should not flex appreciably with a lens as light and compact as your A* 300/4. Truly. I would point the finger at the plate first (screw too long or poor fit in the clamp not allowing a secure mount). BTW...how big is your plate? The minimum size for the K20D should be at least 50mm with a clamp at least that long. I use the Giottos MH 646 (LINK). It is cheap ($24 USD) and has anti-rotation tabs. Second, I would point my finger at the tripod legs. When using my lightweight tripod and my heaviest lens with the K10D, I get a sag of about 1/4" at the lens tip with ALL of the motion traceable to the bowing (upward on one side and downward on the other) of the tripod legs just below their juncture with the spider. I have not used nor seen the Benro A2580, so can't comment whether this is the issue with your setup. Steve

12-10-2011, 02:11 PM	#19
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806 Original Poster	I don't see that it could be chassis damage to the K20, because the K-x is a little more shaky. The PU60 plate is 60mm I filed the screw down, the length is not an issue The legs are not flexing, For my tests, I only extended two of four segments, and I can't feel any movement. The load spec for the legs is 22 lbs, the spec for the ball head is 24lb.

12-10-2011, 05:01 PM	#20
wlachan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 2,625	From what you have described, it's really down to the design of Pentax bodies which flex since the MZ/ZX series. The vibration on tripod starts to become an issue with FA*200/2.8, and 300mm on crop DSLR is just unbearable I would imagine. If possible, you can try a mid-end metal Canon body with long tele and the difference is night & day.

12-17-2011, 11:00 AM	#21
cbope Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Helsinki Posts: 664	Does the K-5 suffer from this body flex?

12-17-2011, 04:33 PM	#22
wlachan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 2,625	I have never tried the K-5 on tripod so cannot tell.

12-18-2011, 01:26 AM	#23
cbope Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Helsinki Posts: 664	Originally posted by wlachan I have never tried the K-5 on tripod so cannot tell. My new Manfrotto should be arriving next week before Xmas, so I'll know soon.

12-18-2011, 04:22 AM	#24
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806 Original Poster	I made the original post. I find if I use the grip the system tightens up noticeably. The wider flatter bottom of the grip helps the interface between the camera and plate, and the grip holds the body without the rocking. It's still not ideal, but much better. I'll try another mounting plate and see if that helps. Brandrx has linked a strange tripod mount that fits on the A*300 which I should address the issue completely. Originally posted by wlachan If possible, you can try a mid-end metal Canon body with long tele and the difference is night & day. I don't see why a metal-bodied Canon would be more solid than a metal-bodied Pentax.

12-18-2011, 11:47 AM	#26
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806 Original Poster	Thanks Chris. I emailed you.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
	Search this Thread: Advanced Search