Are all batteries created equal?

travis_cooper · 01-24-2008, 02:18 PM

I have decided, even though I would love to have the K20D, that I am going to upgrade my K110D to a K10D. I have never used a device that needed Li-ion batteries before, so I'm not sure what to get. First, I'm assuming just one battery is all the K10D needs to operate, right? It comes with one so I'm guessing that is all it needs. I would like, however, to have an extra battery, and if the one that comes with it isn't worth much maybe two extras. So I'm asking here what people think I should get in terms of the battery. What mah rating is the minimal I should be getting? What is the rating on the one that comes with the camera? What brands should I avoid, or try to get, or are they all about the same? Thanks in advance.

Last edited by travis_cooper; 01-24-2008 at 02:57 PM. Reason: spelling

MNCurt-K10D · 01-24-2008, 03:17 PM

Hi!

You will find a fair number of folk advocating lower priced alternatives to the Pentax D-LI50 battery, but I'm a guy who figures alternate batteries are a bit of 'penny wise, pound foolish' thinking. I personally bought an Impact D-L150 battery from B&H when I bought my K10D, only to have it totally fail on my after about 8 months. True, B&H did replace it reasonably promptly. I also bought a Pentax D-LI50 spare when I bought my DG battery grip, and after the Impact exercise, I bought a third D-LI50 from Adorama (through Amazon, for $38 plus shipping).

There are a fair number of alternatives to the Pentax version out there on eBay, etc. The Konica-Minolta NP-400 has an identical form factor, but is rated for less mA-hrs, and there aren't that many left in the pipeline. There are a lot of "equivalents" though...

The biggest issue with the alternate batteries has to do with the supporting electronics inside. If you check around on the net you will find sites which have taken apart many different Li-Ion and analyzed the internal electronics, which are intended to protect the battery and the camera from short circuits and/or overheating - some are good, some are poor. HAving a protection circuit fail inside your camera would possibly be a bad thing!

Bottom line - do you want to risk your $800 camera, or your priceless photos, for $20-30? I've decided not to, but many others have gone the other way without incurring any pain, so...

travis_cooper · 01-24-2008, 03:21 PM

Thanks for replying, so how long does the pentax battery last? It looks like it is a 1400 mah. I found a site that sells it for $14.80 here. It looks like the same battery anyway, does it look the same to you? I'm not necessarily looking for the cheapest one, as you pointed out they aren't always very good, but rather the best long lasting one.

bifficus · 01-24-2008, 05:37 PM

Hi there,

There is most definitely a difference in the quality of the batteries.

It comes down to both the elecronics in the batteries, and even more importantly, the quality and matching of the cells inside.

Battery production is inconsistent. Each and very cell produced must be carefully analyzed and then graded. OEM manufacturers only buy grade A cells and then carefully match them in the packs, which is why their batteries are always so expensive.... you are paying for both quality and brand.

Most knockoff packs on Ebay and elsewhere are made with C grade cells, or even rejects. These behave like one of the other posters describe... they work fine, until all of a sudden they don't... almost certainly due to cell mismatch in the pack prematurely destroying the pack. Sometimes they don't work at all. I orderd a battery off of ebay once that was good for about 10 pictures before death.

There are few alternatives for people that really want a quality battery but don't want to pay an arm and a leg for it. I use UpStart Battery for my laptop. They come from OEM factories and have a lifetime warranty. So you only pay for the quality, not the OEM brand. Unfortunately I couldn't see your battery on their site.

Check the link if you want to read more about the whole battery quality issue. It's under the "Care" tab.

Good luck!

wlachan · 01-24-2008, 06:05 PM

Of course not all batteries are created equal. My advice is, don't get hooked on any written spec (most are not honest anyway), just get the Minolta NP-400 ($9.95 only from B&H) and you won't be sorry.

MNCurt-K10D · 01-24-2008, 07:05 PM

Travis ---

The link you identified to a $14.80 battery looks good, until I see the word :"generic" in the description, and note the 1400 mAh rating... a true Pentax D-LI50 (I'm looking at one of mine right now) is rated 7.4 volts, 1620 mAh. Hence, I suspect that BestBatt.com is being a little deceptive in their product title. The Minolta NP-400 from B&H cited by wlachan is a far better choice, though it is rated at 1500mAh. The only issue is that Konica Minolta got out of the camera business in the middle of 2006 (selling the intellectual property to Sony), and I would be surprised if Konica-Minolta is still producing and selling batteries for a product they no long support. This would suggest that a new "Konica-Minolta NP-400 Battery" has been on the shelf for at least a year and a half, and when current inventory is sold out, there will be no more. There is an argument that Lithium-ion batteries have a finite shelf life whether in use or just sitting, but I'm not a battery chemist so I can't speak to that. I do know that most Li-ion batteries that I have direct experience with have a nominal useful life of around 1,000 charge/discharge cycles before their capacity starts to drop.

Bottom line, I stand by my recommendation to buy Pentax D-LI50 batteries (from Adorama or B&H) with the Konica-Minolta NP-400 from B&H a strong contender as well.

As to how many shots I get from a Pentax battery... that is hard to answer! I use the D-BG2 so there are two batteries available at all times, and I can go weeks before either needs to be charged... and I use the internal flash a lot, and do a lot of reviewing with the LCD. One thing I have noticed is the "low battery' warning comes on when you are really just about out of juice - like one or two shots. Hence, having an extra charged battery with you is very prudent!

Curt

patrickt · 01-24-2008, 07:18 PM

I have my original Pentax battery and two Impact batteries from B&H. All three work fine and I've had no problems with any. Two I've been using for a year and one for a week.

I see a difference between the really cheap E-Bay batteries and batteries with a brand name that are somewhat cheaper than Pentax. At the time I bought the camera I couldn't get a Pentax battery.

HGMonaro · 01-24-2008, 09:33 PM

Here in Oz, manufacturers batteries are usually rediculously priced. I didn't even bother asking what the battery cost as I intended on getting one from eBay. I'd imagine it would be close to 3 figures, I bought a 2nd battery for the wifes Ricoh GX and it was about $70. I had bought some Canon camcorder 'generic' batteries (after enquiring have much the originals cost) that perform so much better then the std Canon one that it's not funny! They are labelled something like 1400mA and the original is 700mA or thereabouts, but they last 5 times longer. I bought the Pentax one over a year ago and it's been fine. I've never noticed one (it or the original) lasts less. I think it was about $20 delivered, however if I had original batteries available at the prices mentioned, I'd probably buy them. I just bought two new camcorder batteries (for a new camcorder) and they were $30 delivered but I haven't used them enough to make a judgement on these ones yet.

01-24-2008, 02:18 PM	#1
travis_cooper Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 300	Are all batteries created equal? I have decided, even though I would love to have the K20D, that I am going to upgrade my K110D to a K10D. I have never used a device that needed Li-ion batteries before, so I'm not sure what to get. First, I'm assuming just one battery is all the K10D needs to operate, right? It comes with one so I'm guessing that is all it needs. I would like, however, to have an extra battery, and if the one that comes with it isn't worth much maybe two extras. So I'm asking here what people think I should get in terms of the battery. What mah rating is the minimal I should be getting? What is the rating on the one that comes with the camera? What brands should I avoid, or try to get, or are they all about the same? Thanks in advance. Last edited by travis_cooper; 01-24-2008 at 02:57 PM. Reason: spelling

01-24-2008, 05:37 PM	#4
bifficus New Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Burnaby Posts: 1	Yes, there is a difference Hi there, There is most definitely a difference in the quality of the batteries. It comes down to both the elecronics in the batteries, and even more importantly, the quality and matching of the cells inside. Battery production is inconsistent. Each and very cell produced must be carefully analyzed and then graded. OEM manufacturers only buy grade A cells and then carefully match them in the packs, which is why their batteries are always so expensive.... you are paying for both quality and brand. Most knockoff packs on Ebay and elsewhere are made with C grade cells, or even rejects. These behave like one of the other posters describe... they work fine, until all of a sudden they don't... almost certainly due to cell mismatch in the pack prematurely destroying the pack. Sometimes they don't work at all. I orderd a battery off of ebay once that was good for about 10 pictures before death. There are few alternatives for people that really want a quality battery but don't want to pay an arm and a leg for it. I use UpStart Battery for my laptop. They come from OEM factories and have a lifetime warranty. So you only pay for the quality, not the OEM brand. Unfortunately I couldn't see your battery on their site. Check the link if you want to read more about the whole battery quality issue. It's under the "Care" tab. Good luck!

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01-24-2008, 03:17 PM	#2
MNCurt-K10D Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Saint Paul, MN Posts: 113	Hi! You will find a fair number of folk advocating lower priced alternatives to the Pentax D-LI50 battery, but I'm a guy who figures alternate batteries are a bit of 'penny wise, pound foolish' thinking. I personally bought an Impact D-L150 battery from B&H when I bought my K10D, only to have it totally fail on my after about 8 months. True, B&H did replace it reasonably promptly. I also bought a Pentax D-LI50 spare when I bought my DG battery grip, and after the Impact exercise, I bought a third D-LI50 from Adorama (through Amazon, for $38 plus shipping). There are a fair number of alternatives to the Pentax version out there on eBay, etc. The Konica-Minolta NP-400 has an identical form factor, but is rated for less mA-hrs, and there aren't that many left in the pipeline. There are a lot of "equivalents" though... The biggest issue with the alternate batteries has to do with the supporting electronics inside. If you check around on the net you will find sites which have taken apart many different Li-Ion and analyzed the internal electronics, which are intended to protect the battery and the camera from short circuits and/or overheating - some are good, some are poor. HAving a protection circuit fail inside your camera would possibly be a bad thing! Bottom line - do you want to risk your $800 camera, or your priceless photos, for $20-30? I've decided not to, but many others have gone the other way without incurring any pain, so...

01-24-2008, 03:21 PM	#3
travis_cooper Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 300 Original Poster	Thanks for replying, so how long does the pentax battery last? It looks like it is a 1400 mah. I found a site that sells it for $14.80 here. It looks like the same battery anyway, does it look the same to you? I'm not necessarily looking for the cheapest one, as you pointed out they aren't always very good, but rather the best long lasting one.

01-24-2008, 06:05 PM	#5
wlachan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 2,625	Of course not all batteries are created equal. My advice is, don't get hooked on any written spec (most are not honest anyway), just get the Minolta NP-400 ($9.95 only from B&H) and you won't be sorry.

01-24-2008, 07:05 PM	#6
MNCurt-K10D Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Saint Paul, MN Posts: 113	Travis --- The link you identified to a $14.80 battery looks good, until I see the word :"generic" in the description, and note the 1400 mAh rating... a true Pentax D-LI50 (I'm looking at one of mine right now) is rated 7.4 volts, 1620 mAh. Hence, I suspect that BestBatt.com is being a little deceptive in their product title. The Minolta NP-400 from B&H cited by wlachan is a far better choice, though it is rated at 1500mAh. The only issue is that Konica Minolta got out of the camera business in the middle of 2006 (selling the intellectual property to Sony), and I would be surprised if Konica-Minolta is still producing and selling batteries for a product they no long support. This would suggest that a new "Konica-Minolta NP-400 Battery" has been on the shelf for at least a year and a half, and when current inventory is sold out, there will be no more. There is an argument that Lithium-ion batteries have a finite shelf life whether in use or just sitting, but I'm not a battery chemist so I can't speak to that. I do know that most Li-ion batteries that I have direct experience with have a nominal useful life of around 1,000 charge/discharge cycles before their capacity starts to drop. Bottom line, I stand by my recommendation to buy Pentax D-LI50 batteries (from Adorama or B&H) with the Konica-Minolta NP-400 from B&H a strong contender as well. As to how many shots I get from a Pentax battery... that is hard to answer! I use the D-BG2 so there are two batteries available at all times, and I can go weeks before either needs to be charged... and I use the internal flash a lot, and do a lot of reviewing with the LCD. One thing I have noticed is the "low battery' warning comes on when you are really just about out of juice - like one or two shots. Hence, having an extra charged battery with you is very prudent! Curt

01-24-2008, 07:18 PM	#7
patrickt Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Oaxaca, Mexico Posts: 247	I have my original Pentax battery and two Impact batteries from B&H. All three work fine and I've had no problems with any. Two I've been using for a year and one for a week. I see a difference between the really cheap E-Bay batteries and batteries with a brand name that are somewhat cheaper than Pentax. At the time I bought the camera I couldn't get a Pentax battery.

01-24-2008, 09:33 PM	#8
HGMonaro Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Melb. Aust Posts: 840	Here in Oz, manufacturers batteries are usually rediculously priced. I didn't even bother asking what the battery cost as I intended on getting one from eBay. I'd imagine it would be close to 3 figures, I bought a 2nd battery for the wifes Ricoh GX and it was about $70. I had bought some Canon camcorder 'generic' batteries (after enquiring have much the originals cost) that perform so much better then the std Canon one that it's not funny! They are labelled something like 1400mA and the original is 700mA or thereabouts, but they last 5 times longer. I bought the Pentax one over a year ago and it's been fine. I've never noticed one (it or the original) lasts less. I think it was about $20 delivered, however if I had original batteries available at the prices mentioned, I'd probably buy them. I just bought two new camcorder batteries (for a new camcorder) and they were $30 delivered but I haven't used them enough to make a judgement on these ones yet.