Wireless synchronizing Metz 58AF-1 and P AF-540 fgz

Oldbayrunner · 12-17-2014, 09:57 AM

Ok use same settings but change the 540 to SL1 that should do the trick.

Last edited by Oldbayrunner; 12-17-2014 at 10:05 AM.

emalvick · 12-17-2014, 09:58 AM

Looking at the images you post...

Image 1: The Metz is a Slave running in manual mode? (it's not in PTTL)?

Of course the photos are quite useful. Have you visually watched the flashes when you try to trigger both in manual mode (i.e. the Image 2 condition)? I only wonder if the flashes are both triggering but perhaps there is a delay?

... it looks like you already answered my question.

edit:... based on what you are seeing, it actually seems like Servo mode for the Pentax flash is what you need.

Bulldogface · 12-17-2014, 10:15 AM

I went through few possibilities, and made a pictures, but than I realized all looks the same, Metz contributing, Pentax not. So first, Pentax set on SL1, manual, Metz in Servo. Built-in flash set on control. Both flashes fire up, but only Metz contributes to picture. Than I switched built-in to Master, rest unchanged. Metz fires and contributes, Pentax misses completely. Than I went to Slave mode in Metz, Pentax untouched. Same story, both in master and control.
Well, now I am going to try to work out what does rest of settings in SL1/2 menu , namely PH anPP do.

Oldbayrunner · 12-17-2014, 10:55 AM

Ph1 & Ph2 are for your auto shut off, PH2 disables it. PP1 and PP2 are charging modes for using an external charger. PP2 enable using one. What were your zoom & manual power settings for each flash? Did you lower your camera exposure ambient light low enough to be able to adequately tell what each flash lighting contributions were? If not manually set both flashes at lens length zoom. Drop your manual exposure settings till it reads a -5 then shoot a photo at a subject with the flashes at the same distance. not too close, at opposite 45 degree angles and power 1/16 or 1/32. If it is too bright drop your flash power settings.

Last edited by Oldbayrunner; 12-17-2014 at 11:11 AM.

Bulldogface · 12-17-2014, 11:26 AM

I am rather confident about them firing/not firing, since i've set exposure right about where you have suggested on the first set of pics already (and kept there), and I've flash lowered output low enough to see individual flash heads when they fire. plus I was taking pictures of actual flash heads, any contribution would show up there. As for zoom, both were at their widest setting. And thanks for clarifying that menu for us

emalvick · 12-17-2014, 05:02 PM

In the cases where both flashes are firing (but only the Metz contributes), can you tell at all whether the Pentax is early or late? I'm not sure if it would really matter, but if it was late, can you leave the shutter open longer to see if you can get both flashes to contribute? I know that is not ideal, but you learn a little more.

Bulldogface · 12-18-2014, 06:57 AM

I've done test at 0.3" and still no show. It looks like pentax fires on preflash, before shutter opens.

Oldbayrunner · 12-18-2014, 09:49 AM

Originally posted by Bulldogface

I've done test at 0.3" and still no show. It looks like pentax fires on preflash, before shutter opens.

Would be hard to tell... At close distance your on camera flash would be contributory even in control mode making it difficult to tell what the external flash result really is... This is where using radio flashes are a much better way to go for manual flash use than ones onboard.

Bulldogface · 12-18-2014, 01:55 PM

I guess you are right. Or as Pentax says, it was meant to fire in P-TTL in multiple-flash mode

emalvick · 12-18-2014, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by Bulldogface

I guess you are right. Or as Pentax says, it was meant to fire in P-TTL in multiple-flash mode

I think that's the key... Pentax really wants you to use P-TTL. Thinking back, that is probably why I ended up with a Metz flash when I had narrowed my choices down to the two flashes you have. I got really used to manual flash use with the AT-280 flash I had before, and the K10d I had at the time was notoriously bad with P-TTL.

I'd guess that if you had two Metz flashes, you'd have the results you want. The funny thing is it is incomprehensible that something with regard to having two flashes listening to a signal makes the Pentax flash jump the gun. It sounds like that as soon as you turn the Metz on it knows. Yet, it works fine if the Pentax is in PTTL mode. It almost sounds like there is some type of lens ego thing going on there.

12-17-2014, 10:15 AM	#33
Bulldogface Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Akershus Photos: Gallery Posts: 69 Original Poster	I went through few possibilities, and made a pictures, but than I realized all looks the same, Metz contributing, Pentax not. So first, Pentax set on SL1, manual, Metz in Servo. Built-in flash set on control. Both flashes fire up, but only Metz contributes to picture. Than I switched built-in to Master, rest unchanged. Metz fires and contributes, Pentax misses completely. Than I went to Slave mode in Metz, Pentax untouched. Same story, both in master and control. Well, now I am going to try to work out what does rest of settings in SL1/2 menu , namely PH anPP do. Last edited by Bulldogface; 12-17-2014 at 10:20 AM.

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12-17-2014, 09:57 AM	#31
Oldbayrunner Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,665	Ok use same settings but change the 540 to SL1 that should do the trick. Last edited by Oldbayrunner; 12-17-2014 at 10:05 AM.

12-17-2014, 09:58 AM	#32
emalvick Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Davis, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,642	Looking at the images you post... Image 1: The Metz is a Slave running in manual mode? (it's not in PTTL)? Of course the photos are quite useful. Have you visually watched the flashes when you try to trigger both in manual mode (i.e. the Image 2 condition)? I only wonder if the flashes are both triggering but perhaps there is a delay? ... it looks like you already answered my question. edit:... based on what you are seeing, it actually seems like Servo mode for the Pentax flash is what you need.

12-17-2014, 10:55 AM	#34
Oldbayrunner Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,665	Ph1 & Ph2 are for your auto shut off, PH2 disables it. PP1 and PP2 are charging modes for using an external charger. PP2 enable using one. What were your zoom & manual power settings for each flash? Did you lower your camera exposure ambient light low enough to be able to adequately tell what each flash lighting contributions were? If not manually set both flashes at lens length zoom. Drop your manual exposure settings till it reads a -5 then shoot a photo at a subject with the flashes at the same distance. not too close, at opposite 45 degree angles and power 1/16 or 1/32. If it is too bright drop your flash power settings. Last edited by Oldbayrunner; 12-17-2014 at 11:11 AM.

12-17-2014, 11:26 AM	#35
Bulldogface Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Akershus Photos: Gallery Posts: 69 Original Poster	I am rather confident about them firing/not firing, since i've set exposure right about where you have suggested on the first set of pics already (and kept there), and I've flash lowered output low enough to see individual flash heads when they fire. plus I was taking pictures of actual flash heads, any contribution would show up there. As for zoom, both were at their widest setting. And thanks for clarifying that menu for us

12-17-2014, 05:02 PM	#36
emalvick Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Davis, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,642	In the cases where both flashes are firing (but only the Metz contributes), can you tell at all whether the Pentax is early or late? I'm not sure if it would really matter, but if it was late, can you leave the shutter open longer to see if you can get both flashes to contribute? I know that is not ideal, but you learn a little more.

12-18-2014, 06:57 AM	#37
Bulldogface Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Akershus Photos: Gallery Posts: 69 Original Poster	I've done test at 0.3" and still no show. It looks like pentax fires on preflash, before shutter opens.

12-18-2014, 09:49 AM	#38
Oldbayrunner Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,665	Originally posted by Bulldogface I've done test at 0.3" and still no show. It looks like pentax fires on preflash, before shutter opens. Would be hard to tell... At close distance your on camera flash would be contributory even in control mode making it difficult to tell what the external flash result really is... This is where using radio flashes are a much better way to go for manual flash use than ones onboard.

12-18-2014, 01:55 PM	#39
Bulldogface Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Akershus Photos: Gallery Posts: 69 Original Poster	I guess you are right. Or as Pentax says, it was meant to fire in P-TTL in multiple-flash mode

12-18-2014, 03:39 PM	#40
emalvick Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Davis, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,642	Originally posted by Bulldogface I guess you are right. Or as Pentax says, it was meant to fire in P-TTL in multiple-flash mode I think that's the key... Pentax really wants you to use P-TTL. Thinking back, that is probably why I ended up with a Metz flash when I had narrowed my choices down to the two flashes you have. I got really used to manual flash use with the AT-280 flash I had before, and the K10d I had at the time was notoriously bad with P-TTL. I'd guess that if you had two Metz flashes, you'd have the results you want. The funny thing is it is incomprehensible that something with regard to having two flashes listening to a signal makes the Pentax flash jump the gun. It sounds like that as soon as you turn the Metz on it knows. Yet, it works fine if the Pentax is in PTTL mode. It almost sounds like there is some type of lens ego thing going on there.