Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
11-21-2014, 02:29 PM   #31
Pentaxian
panoguy's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Washington, D.C.
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,316
QuoteOriginally posted by zzeitg Quote
OK, I think I decided for the Acratech GP with lever clamp + quick release plate.


Now - what might be the right tripod for this head?
I've no idea what is easily available in the Czech Republic, but I've been using a GP on top of a Nest NT-6294 carbon fiber tripod. It's from a hard to find, almost unknown Chinese brand, but really stable and well-built for the price ($200). The current Giottos YTL tripods are also nice, but pricier. Refer to the Stevebrot's primer for what you want, then search for models that fit in those requirements.

BTW, here's what the (inverted) GP looks like on top of the Nest - while shooting macro, no less:




Last edited by panoguy; 11-21-2014 at 03:06 PM.
11-21-2014, 03:22 PM   #32
Senior Member




Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 115
stevebrot and interested_observer, filled you in, so there is not much to say.

1) how fast do you want to work.
a ballhead works faster than everything else. you will need panorama head and macro rail, to put on it. just adjust the ballhead, and let the specialized equipment work for you.
elsewise
for macro, you probably will be better off with a monopod. there are some mefoto tripods where you can just unscrew a foot and use it as monopad.

i bought myself a manfrotto 410 gear head. i can work with it very precise, but goddamn, it is very slow and heavy. although, ive made DIY panorama head on top of it because making 100% straight panorama adjusting the feet is still hard.

2) how heavy do you want it.
many say the lighter, the better. at least look if there is good provision for extra weight. if you have flipping system, like ones showed above or manfrotto 055 or 190 with 0-90 system, and a macro rail, or panorama head, or even both on top of it, it will be preatty heavy and unstable.

11-21-2014, 03:24 PM - 2 Likes   #33
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Tumbleweed, Arizona
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,603
QuoteOriginally posted by Hattifnatt Quote
Can somebody recommend a ball head that can do panoramas? right now I'm using a Manfrotto ballhead, but it has no gradations or such to help with panoramas...
To add to Steve's reply a bit. I think the most inexpensive way, is to use your current ballhead and camera plate. Essentially take your current head and make it into a panning head, that can do single row panoramas. So, based on your post, I am going to assume that you have Manfrotto ballhead as indicated. With that ballhead and a panning clamp similar the one up in post #21, what you are going to do is this.
  1. The panning clamp has a threaded hole in the center, that should accept the current camera plate that you currently have.
  2. Attach your current camera plate to the bottom of the panning clamp, screwing the mounting bolt on the camera plate into the base of the panning clamp.
  3. That will enable you to securely mount - essentially using the current clamp on your ballhead to mount the panning base.
  4. Then you need to secure an Arca Swiss plate for your camera. Screw it into the base of the camera.
  5. Then mount your camera in to the panning clamp, and tighten.
  6. Now your camera should be securely mounted to the panning clamp, which is securely mounted to your ballhead, which is securely attached to your tripod.
  7. Then using the ballhead, level the camera.
  8. Now you should be able to loosen the knob on the panning base that allows it to rotate around the now perpendicular axis that is now straight up and down.
  9. Aim your camera, and take a picture.
  10. Then loosen the knob and rotate the camera to the next frame allowing about a 25 to 30% overlap.
  11. Tighten the knob to lock the panning base, and take the next frame.
  12. That it! You can continue rotating and taking pictures.
Here are some links to the parts. Since I don't know the ballhead your using, and the type of camera plate - these are just generic suggestions.One last thing. This will allow you to use your camera in landscape mode. If you want to tip it up into portrait mode, then an L-Bracket is a real nice tool. Personally I like the Kirk Enterprises L brackets, but they apparently no longer support Pentax. So, here are another suggestion.... Also, I am just assuming a K5 body as an example.Hope that helps....

11-21-2014, 04:36 PM   #34
Pentaxian
Hattifnatt's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2013
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,141
QuoteOriginally posted by interested_observer Quote
To add to Steve's reply a bit. I think the most inexpensive way, is to use your current ballhead and camera plate. Essentially take your current head and make it into a panning head, that can do single row panoramas. So, based on your post, I am going to assume that you have Manfrotto ballhead as indicated. With that ballhead and a panning clamp similar the one up in post #21, what you are going to do is this. The panning clamp has a threaded hole in the center, that should accept the current camera plate that you currently have. Attach your current camera plate to the bottom of the panning clamp, screwing the mounting bolt on the camera plate into the base of the panning clamp. That will enable you to securely mount - essentially using the current clamp on your ballhead to mount the panning base. Then you need to secure an Arca Swiss plate for your camera. Screw it into the base of the camera. Then mount your camera in to the panning clamp, and tighten. Now your camera should be securely mounted to the panning clamp, which is securely mounted to your ballhead, which is securely attached to your tripod. Then using the ballhead, level the camera. Now you should be able to loosen the knob on the panning base that allows it to rotate around the now perpendicular axis that is now straight up and down. Aim your camera, and take a picture. Then loosen the knob and rotate the camera to the next frame allowing about a 25 to 30% overlap. Tighten the knob to lock the panning base, and take the next frame. That it! You can continue rotating and taking pictures. Here are some links to the parts. Since I don't know the ballhead your using, and the type of camera plate - these are just generic suggestions. Panoramic Panorama Panning Clamp Tripod Head Base Arca Swiss Compatible Dovetail | eBay Quick Release Plates - Pentax - K5 - Acratech One last thing. This will allow you to use your camera in landscape mode. If you want to tip it up into portrait mode, then an L-Bracket is a real nice tool. Personally I like the Kirk Enterprises L brackets, but they apparently no longer support Pentax. So, here are another suggestion.... Also, I am just assuming a K5 body as an example. Amazon.com : FK5L Quick Release L-plate Bracket for Pentax K5 Arca Swiss Compatible : Tripod Camera Mounts : Camera & Photo Hope that helps....
Thank you! very informative and detailed reading.

11-21-2014, 06:19 PM   #35
Pentaxian
zzeitg's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: South Bohemia
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,923
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by panoguy Quote
I've no idea what is easily available in the Czech Republic, but I've been using a GP on top of a Nest NT-6294 carbon fiber tripod. It's from a hard to find, almost unknown Chinese brand, but really stable and well-built for the price ($200). The current Giottos YTL tripods are also nice, but pricier. Refer to the Stevebrot's primer for what you want, then search for models that fit in those requirements.

BTW, here's what the (inverted) GP looks like on top of the Nest - while shooting macro, no less:


thanks for reference, panoguy. This Nest seems quite interesting. According to your experience with this combo (Nest + GP), do you think that the absence of articulating center column could be kinda limitation?
11-21-2014, 07:07 PM   #36
Pentaxian
panoguy's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Washington, D.C.
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,316
QuoteOriginally posted by zzeitg Quote
thanks for reference, panoguy. This Nest seems quite interesting. According to your experience with this combo (Nest + GP), do you think that the absence of articulating center column could be kinda limitation?
Well, it isn't a limitation for me. You can see in that photo that I contort my tripods anyhow.

Some years ago I had a Manfrotto with an articulating center column, and found that I rarely used it (you had to pull the center column apart, pull it out, and put it back in again). Plus, that old design added a lot of weight to the tripod. I've no idea about the newer versions or designs from other manufacturers, as far as ease-of-use or weight goes.

The one thing I do like is when a manufacturer includes a short center column, or, in the case of the Nest (and many Gitzos), a top plate that can connect directly to the weight hook. (See this review of the same tripod for photos of this low-level setup.) I will say that an articulating column is much easier to manage than a common "reversable center column" with your camera hanging upside down, if you want to go low, but then a short column can get you pretty low as well.
11-21-2014, 07:20 PM   #37
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Tumbleweed, Arizona
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,603
Is it just me, but over the last couple of years - I have noticed that a number of brand spanking new companies have started up selling tripods, of all things. This company Nest, and then there is the company from the UK with the name tripods - Brian, etc., then the three legged thing (perhaps the same company). Then RRS, Really Right Stuff, came out with their own super premium (and mega expensive) unit. I never really realized that tripods were such a hot commodity, attracting all of this mechanical engineering talent and material science wizardry.... I thought that it was all pretty mundane stuff.

They all seem to be putting out quality products, with additional functionality, features and options. All of which is great for the photographer.



11-21-2014, 07:48 PM   #38
Pentaxian
panoguy's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Washington, D.C.
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,316
QuoteOriginally posted by interested_observer Quote
Is it just me, but over the last couple of years - I have noticed that a number of brand spanking new companies have started up selling tripods, of all things. This company Nest, and then there is the company from the UK with the name tripods - Brian, etc., then the three legged thing (perhaps the same company). Then RRS, Really Right Stuff, came out with their own super premium (and mega expensive) unit. I never really realized that tripods were such a hot commodity, attracting all of this mechanical engineering talent and material science wizardry.... I thought that it was all pretty mundane stuff.
It actually is all pretty mundane stuff, if you think about it. The biggest change has been that the tripods mass-produced as "white label" products (slap your company name on them with minor mods) have gotten much better than the old Sunpak/Polaroid/store brand tripod days when those cross-braces at the bottom of the column meant "heavy duty."

What's odd is that there are three really big players in China that make most of the smaller brand gear. Weifeng Ningbo has their own tripod brands (Weifeng, Fancier, Nest) but also makes the tripods for independent brands like Dolica, Redged, Horusbennu, and Cullmann (at least their lower-end ones). Down the road a bit, Yueqing Originality spits out gear for 3Pod, Triopo, Giottos, Vanguard, and even a few Manfrottos (although most Manfrottos are still made in Italy). Yilee Mfg. makes Benro, Induro, MeFoto and the component parts for many, many other brands.

Adding to the oddness, sometimes two brands made in the same factory have wildly different quality levels (f.e. Nest is way better than Fancier), so even look-alikes can be deceptive. Manfrotto and Gitzo are the biggest names in European tripods, and they (almost all) come from the same factory complex in Italy. Except Gitzo has their own carbon tube production line and their own assembly and QA line, separate from Manfrotto. Apparently this is what Weifeng is trying to do with Nest.

I think Sirui and Feisol have remained independent, one-brand companies in the far east, while RRS, FLM, and now even Jobu have started making ultra-high end tripods themselves with no outsourcing. Painstakingly handcrafted, indeed!

This is what happens when you immerse yourself in the world of tripods for too long...

Last edited by panoguy; 11-21-2014 at 08:06 PM.
11-21-2014, 08:06 PM   #39
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Tumbleweed, Arizona
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,603
QuoteOriginally posted by panoguy Quote
It actually is all pretty mundane stuff, if you think about it. The biggest change has been that the tripods mass-produced as "white label" products (slap your company name on them with minor mods) have gotten much better than the old Sunpak/Polaroid/store brand tripod days when those cross-braces at the bottom of the column meant "heavy duty."

What's odd is that there are only three big players in China that make most of the smaller brand gear. Weifeng Ningbo has their own tripod brands (Weifeng, Fancier, Nest) but also makes the tripods for independent brands like Dolica, Redged, Horusbennu, and Cullmann (at least their lower-end ones). Down the road a bit, Yueqing Originality spits out gear for 3Pod, Triopo, Giottos, Vanguard, and even a few Manfrottos (although most Manfrottos are still made in Italy). Yilee Mfg. makes Benro, Induro, MeFoto and the component parts for many, many other brands.

I think Sirui and Feisol have remained independent, one-brand companies in the far east, while RRS, FLM, and now even Jobu have started making ultra-high end tripods themselves with no outsourcing. Painstakingly handcrafted, indeed!

This is what happens when you immerse yourself in the world of tripods for too long...
That was interesting. I had not been following who was manufacturing what for whom. I had run across this video (I went back and actually found it), for this tripod company that I assumed from their B&H presentation - or what I remembered of it, that they actually did the manufacturing. Why I watched it initially - I don't know, but - but I remember asking myself - why do all of this for a tripod.... Watching the first part again - they do sub out their manufacturing....


11-21-2014, 09:28 PM   #40
Otis Memorial Pentaxian
Loyal Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 41,552
QuoteOriginally posted by panoguy Quote
I will say that an articulating column is much easier to manage than a common "reversable center column" with your camera hanging upside down, if you want to go low, but then a short column can get you pretty low as well.
This is the gist of it. I have a second tripod that I use for hiking and it has a short center column only. It is not quite as flexible as the Giottos, but with it I can put the bottom of the camera about eight inches off the ground with the tripod legs fully splayed.

Another note regarding the articulating center column in the photo above...yes, you have remove the column from its center position and slide it into the transverse receiver that allows it to hinge over. It is really quite slick, but there is a weight penalty. You can do a direct comparison of similar models (both with and without) on the Giottos Web site.


Steve

---------- Post added 11-21-14 at 08:34 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by panoguy Quote
This is what happens when you immerse yourself in the world of tripods for too long...
...and you did not even talk about the Koreans!


Steve
11-22-2014, 02:47 AM   #41
Pentaxian
zzeitg's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: South Bohemia
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,923
Original Poster
So far I came across two (three) models, which I would consider...
- Nest NT-6294CK Carbon Fibre (thanks panoguy)
- Manfrotto MT190XPRO3 ( 190 Aluminium 3-section Tripod, With Horizontal Column MT190XPRO3 - 190 New Series | Manfrotto )
- Manfrotto MT190XPRO4 ( 190 Aluminium 4-section Tripod, With Horizontal Column MT190XPRO4 - 190 New Series | Manfrotto )


While the difference in weight is not big, the load differs a lot: 20 kg (Nest) vs. 7 kg (Manfrotto).
If I count together my heaviest setup (K-3 + DA60-250 with teleconverter + event. flash + Acratech GP), I come to approx. 3 kg.


I'm wondering what's the Manfrotto stability - is this 3 -> 7 kg reasonable reserve? Esp. if the center is articulated - is the load still 7 kg or (rapidly?) decreased?
Of course camera headcrash is not what I'd ever like to see...
11-22-2014, 03:35 AM   #42
Pentaxian
LensBeginner's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Photos: Albums
Posts: 4,693
QuoteOriginally posted by zzeitg Quote
So far I came across two (three) models, which I would consider...
- Nest NT-6294CK Carbon Fibre (thanks panoguy)
- Manfrotto MT190XPRO3 ( 190 Aluminium 3-section Tripod, With Horizontal Column MT190XPRO3 - 190 New Series | Manfrotto )
- Manfrotto MT190XPRO4 ( 190 Aluminium 4-section Tripod, With Horizontal Column MT190XPRO4 - 190 New Series | Manfrotto )


While the difference in weight is not big, the load differs a lot: 20 kg (Nest) vs. 7 kg (Manfrotto).
If I count together my heaviest setup (K-3 + DA60-250 with teleconverter + event. flash + Acratech GP), I come to approx. 3 kg.


I'm wondering what's the Manfrotto stability - is this 3 -> 7 kg reasonable reserve? Esp. if the center is articulated - is the load still 7 kg or (rapidly?) decreased?
Of course camera headcrash is not what I'd ever like to see...
I have the XPRO3, and I find it quite stable.
Locking mechanism of the center column is fairly positive.
I'd say that when the center column is extended all the way, you'd better hang a bag from the hook on one side of the top of the legs anyhow.
I believe you can use the XPRO3 with MF cameras and I would say that you are well covered even if you'd like to switch to a heavier setup in the future.

I'd also take that 20kg to mean "up to 20kg", and I'd not be surprised if it came with many caveats (center column not extended, legs at minimum extension, no wind etc...)
11-22-2014, 07:30 AM - 1 Like   #43
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Tumbleweed, Arizona
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,603
QuoteOriginally posted by zzeitg Quote
So far I came across two (three) models, which I would consider...
- Nest NT-6294CK Carbon Fibre (thanks panoguy)
- Manfrotto MT190XPRO3 ( 190 Aluminium 3-section Tripod, With Horizontal Column MT190XPRO3 - 190 New Series | Manfrotto )
- Manfrotto MT190XPRO4 ( 190 Aluminium 4-section Tripod, With Horizontal Column MT190XPRO4 - 190 New Series | Manfrotto )


While the difference in weight is not big, the load differs a lot: 20 kg (Nest) vs. 7 kg (Manfrotto).
If I count together my heaviest setup (K-3 + DA60-250 with teleconverter + event. flash + Acratech GP), I come to approx. 3 kg.


I'm wondering what's the Manfrotto stability - is this 3 -> 7 kg reasonable reserve? Esp. if the center is articulated - is the load still 7 kg or (rapidly?) decreased?
Of course camera headcrash is not what I'd ever like to see...
The tripods that you have under consideration so far, I think are a pretty reasonable selection. In terms of differences across the units, I see these differences.
  • The loading factor as you point out is pretty striking. I would think that this may probably be attributed to their testing methodology. The big difference between the two makes are the material (carbon fiber vs aluminum) along with the type of leg locks (twist vs flip). You can also factor in a difference in design of the tripod head and how they mechanically allow the articulation of the center column - as that will make a difference in how the design carries a static load. Carbon fiber is strong - but so is aluminum. In this application, load carrying ability should be similar. The large difference will be seen in the overall weight (with carbon fiber weighing less), and the transmitted vibration (carbon fiber transmitting less than the aluminum). In just skimming the specs, the Nest review used the 20Kg from the Nest ballhead, thus assuming that the tripod legs would carry the load. The Manfratto specs just give a number without any explanation at all.
  • The other aspect I see is useability - and this becomes a personal preference. The leg locks - twist vs flip. I find that if I am out using the tripod in a lot of configurations all day, my hands wear out on the twist leg locks (especially when coupled with having to twist the ballhead knobs also). I really like and prefer the flip. I do know and have read of other folks, having just the opposite preference, saying that they get their fingers stuck or pinched by the flip locks - YMMV. Now, as to which type is stronger and carries a heavier load, I don't have a clue.
  • In terms of carrying any particular load, so much depends on how you set it up. You can have the legs extended to their widest lengths and setup down low, and have a very large moment arm with the center column - and have a very stable setup. Retract the legs and the whole assembly could possibly tip over (across any of the tripod models). So, your ability to understand loads, and loading any particular configuration, becomes part of the overall maximum load that the system can carry.
  • 3 vs 4 leg sections, contribute greatly to the overall ability to carry a load (the leg locks become the weakest link - especially in compression), and the transmitted vibration - where 3 is better than 4 - as again the leg locks (twist vs flip should not matter that much), can induce vibration especially in windy conditions. On the other hand, 4 leg sections fold up to be a more compact and storeable design - as in fitting into carry on luggage (or not).

11-22-2014, 07:49 AM - 1 Like   #44
Pentaxian
panoguy's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Washington, D.C.
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,316
QuoteOriginally posted by zzeitg Quote
I'm wondering what's the Manfrotto stability - is this 3 -> 7 kg reasonable reserve? Esp. if the center is articulated - is the load still 7 kg or (rapidly?) decreased?
Manfrotto (and Gitzo) tend to be conservative in their load ratings, so you have a reasonable reserve there.

Like ball heads, there is no standard for tripod load ratings (although, in ball heads, some say they can take up to 66kg, while a more stable head says 10kg!).

The biggest difference is in the leg tube diameters (29mm for the Nest, 26mm for the 190's), along with the materials (carbon vs. aluminum). Carbon is lighter and more vibration resistant, but the tube material doesn't influence the load a tripod can handle as much as the diameter, along with the quality of the leg locks and angle locks. [EDIT: i_o has some great explanations above, and I can say from experience that Manfrotto flip-locks are as strong and stable as twist locks. They've perfected them!]

My recommendation for you in Europe would be the Manfrotto 190 (either in aluminum or carbon, regular or horizontal column, your choice) instead of the Nest. This is mainly because I see a *huge* price difference between the US distributor of Nest (OEC Camera, $170) and the EU distributor (nest-style, $468). The one from the UK comes as a "kit" with the ball head, but I've got one and it really isn't that good (and why buy a head when you want a GP anyhow?). The legs are great, but their heads need help!

Last edited by panoguy; 11-22-2014 at 07:55 AM.
11-22-2014, 10:26 AM   #45
Pentaxian
zzeitg's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: South Bohemia
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,923
Original Poster
This will be OT, but the price difference between US and Europe is enormous. Just too bad that Amazon is not shipping from US (except CDs, DVDs and such tiny things). Wouldn't there be a chance to get the Nest from the US distributor directly?
(btw. same absurd price situation concerning GP...)
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
ball, base, california, camera, center, center column, check, column, feet, giottos, head, heads, legs, macro, mention, panorama, panorama & macro, position, post, qr, rack, rrs, school, solution, steve, tripod, tripod panorama, type
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Split focusing screen & macro GibbyTheMole Pentax DSLR Discussion 3 03-01-2011 05:43 AM
Rack & Pinion Focus Creep dadipentak Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 15 11-05-2009 04:57 PM
Tripod & Macro Rail jbrowning Pentax Camera and Field Accessories 13 06-28-2008 09:27 PM
Tripod head for panorama photos regken Pentax Camera and Field Accessories 15 11-04-2007 09:21 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:05 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top