Wireless Flash Question - How to Make Main Flash Not Part of Exposure?

wombat2go · 06-25-2015, 07:44 AM

I use the AF360FGZ and AF500FTZ in optical slave mode.
A small flash on the camera hotshoe or on a flash handle can be swivelled to ceiling etc to provide reduced frontal fill, white still triggering the slave.
https://app.box.com/s/xt9wzgvkkbkhjxcupcty
I saw a comment on PF that optical slave is not OK for pro use, but for indoor family use have found it to be reliable.

There are cons to this optical method, the slave can not be through a doorway or shaded etc.
There is no redeye and I think p-TTL is no good due to the preflash.

**UncleVanya** · 06-25-2015, 07:57 AM

Max - allowing the on camera flash to do P-TTL is not what I was thinking you were suggesting it was doing. However now that you posted that it seems that manual I linked must be out of date or it would mention that wouldn't it? Who knows - I'm inclined to get a set of these triggers and some older flashes at some point.

CFWhitman · 06-25-2015, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by wombat2go

I use the AF360FGZ and AF500FTZ in optical slave mode.
A small flash on the camera hotshoe or on a flash handle can be swivelled to ceiling etc to provide reduced frontal fill, white still triggering the slave.
https://app.box.com/s/xt9wzgvkkbkhjxcupcty
I saw a comment on PF that optical slave is not OK for pro use, but for indoor family use have found it to be reliable.

There are cons to this optical method, the slave can not be through a doorway or shaded etc.
There is no redeye and I think p-TTL is no good due to the preflash.

I tend to agree with this. I find P-TTL fairly useless for photographing people because of the pre-flash; you end up with a lot of well-exposed pictures of people with their eyes closed. I've had much more success with other methods. It's easier than you'd think to estimate necessary flash power and set it manually after chimping a shot or two. So RF triggers seem like a good option to me (I have one).

I haven't used my flash for a while, so I'd probably want to brush up before trying to photograph an event with flash again. I may get the chance to do some of this again soon as I know someone who is getting married. I'm rather thankful, though, that they are using another amateur photographer friend rather than asking me to do it, so if I shoot parts of the event as well, there will be no pressure. They asked me about doing a video, but I explained that I don't have the gear for that (thank goodness

).

stevebrot · 06-25-2015, 11:29 AM

Originally posted by clackers

There can be a small amount of the popup flash still present, which might be useful for portrait catchlights, but unwanted in something like a carefully-constructed still-life piece (which you're going to use manual for anyway, rather than P-TTL's guesswork).

Yes, that is how it works. The trigger pulse for actual exposure is intentionally very short when in controller mode.

Steve

max_pyne · 06-25-2015, 12:54 PM

uncle- i have to try it myself.... Im a fan of setting the flashes manual... And there is some confusing information about (P) ttl set up with the cactus system, i was hoping to get some better information... Any how, i have both, started with a cheap solution where you have to set up every thing on the flash it self.... Thats ok and does the job... Got some triggers where you need to set up everything manual and uses the x-sync port... Have the cactus I since some dayes not yet had the time to play... Will do so soon

Sent from mobile after drinking some beer :-)

**UncleVanya** · 06-25-2015, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by max_pyne

Sent from mobile after drinking some beer :-)

LOL - I hope it was GOOD beer.

**Hawki** · 10-27-2015, 02:21 PM

Again, if I'm not correct, then please feel free to correct someone else <grin> .... My K20d had the ability to set the the onboard flashes personality in wireless mode with a specific menu option. You could defeat the onboard flash and still fire off a properly setup 360 or 540 offboard flash. It had it's limitations of course ... it worked by IR and of course that really limits its effectiveness, but it worked. My K-3 has never worked for me in wireless P-TTL with offboard Pentax flashes and be able to defeat the onboard flash. I've read and tried just about everything and if there is a way, I'm not aware of it.

I have since purchased a set of Chinese manual triggers and a couple of powerful manual flashes, adopted the strobist approach to manual offboard flash, and never looked back.

All in all, this seems to be a step backwards. I've been a loyal Pentaxian since the early 70's and will probably die with one in my hand, but the dedicated flash system isn't even a close runner-up the competition. If Ricoh indeed plans on competing in today's DSLR market, it has got to bring our lighting system forward three decades or so.

**UncleVanya** · 10-27-2015, 03:02 PM

I use my k3 to optically trigger my af540fgz with no problems. Two options for this exist wireless master ( on board flash adds to exposure ) and wireless controller, where in theory the on board flash doesn't add to the exposure (it seems to some people that this is not quite true, but it does reduce the effect to a minimum.)

Lake · 10-27-2015, 04:34 PM

When I use optical triggering of an off camera flash and don't want the camera pop up flash to show, I block the front of the pop up flash worth a piece of white plastic. I have a thin end to wedge into the hot shoe

SOldBear · 10-29-2015, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by Hawki

My K20d had the ability to set the the onboard flashes personality in wireless mode with a specific menu option. You could defeat the onboard flash and still fire off a properly setup 360 or 540 offboard flash. It had it's limitations of course ... it worked by IR and of course that really limits its effectiveness, but it worked.

Don't let anyone convince you. Use your K20D to take a photo with both the on-board flash and the remote flash visible in the photo (e.g. in front of a mirror) and convince yourself....

I used to take photos of fish in aquaria (or is it aquariums?) for a friend, I know....

AquaDome · 10-29-2015, 12:23 PM

There are a number of cable solutions for off-camera P-TTL.
Vello Off-Camera TTL Flash Cord for Pentax Cameras (3') OCS-P3

snostorm · 11-23-2015, 05:03 PM

The easiest thing to do is take some exposed/developed film leader (the black part before the first exposure) and tape it over your on-camera "master". It will block most of the visible light, but let enough IR through to trigger your off-camera flash and the P-TTL preflashes for metering. I went to my local B&M camera shop and they gave me some of these leader sections from their film developing service at no charge.

Also, there are a few IR bypass filters that clip onto the pop up flash to block the visible light, but let the IR signals through. Metz makes one and bundles it with it's wireless P-TTL macro flash, but I don't know if it can be obtained separately.

Scott

10-27-2015, 02:21 PM	#22
Hawki Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: North Face of Mount Shasta Photos: Albums Posts: 120	This feature used to work ... Again, if I'm not correct, then please feel free to correct someone else <grin> .... My K20d had the ability to set the the onboard flashes personality in wireless mode with a specific menu option. You could defeat the onboard flash and still fire off a properly setup 360 or 540 offboard flash. It had it's limitations of course ... it worked by IR and of course that really limits its effectiveness, but it worked. My K-3 has never worked for me in wireless P-TTL with offboard Pentax flashes and be able to defeat the onboard flash. I've read and tried just about everything and if there is a way, I'm not aware of it. I have since purchased a set of Chinese manual triggers and a couple of powerful manual flashes, adopted the strobist approach to manual offboard flash, and never looked back. All in all, this seems to be a step backwards. I've been a loyal Pentaxian since the early 70's and will probably die with one in my hand, but the dedicated flash system isn't even a close runner-up the competition. If Ricoh indeed plans on competing in today's DSLR market, it has got to bring our lighting system forward three decades or so.

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06-25-2015, 07:44 AM	#16
wombat2go Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Michigan Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,207	I use the AF360FGZ and AF500FTZ in optical slave mode. A small flash on the camera hotshoe or on a flash handle can be swivelled to ceiling etc to provide reduced frontal fill, white still triggering the slave. https://app.box.com/s/xt9wzgvkkbkhjxcupcty I saw a comment on PF that optical slave is not OK for pro use, but for indoor family use have found it to be reliable. There are cons to this optical method, the slave can not be through a doorway or shaded etc. There is no redeye and I think p-TTL is no good due to the preflash.

06-25-2015, 07:57 AM	#17
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,401	Max - allowing the on camera flash to do P-TTL is not what I was thinking you were suggesting it was doing. However now that you posted that it seems that manual I linked must be out of date or it would mention that wouldn't it? Who knows - I'm inclined to get a set of these triggers and some older flashes at some point.

06-25-2015, 11:21 AM	#18
CFWhitman Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Upstate New York, US Photos: Albums Posts: 225	Originally posted by wombat2go I use the AF360FGZ and AF500FTZ in optical slave mode. A small flash on the camera hotshoe or on a flash handle can be swivelled to ceiling etc to provide reduced frontal fill, white still triggering the slave. https://app.box.com/s/xt9wzgvkkbkhjxcupcty I saw a comment on PF that optical slave is not OK for pro use, but for indoor family use have found it to be reliable. There are cons to this optical method, the slave can not be through a doorway or shaded etc. There is no redeye and I think p-TTL is no good due to the preflash. I tend to agree with this. I find P-TTL fairly useless for photographing people because of the pre-flash; you end up with a lot of well-exposed pictures of people with their eyes closed. I've had much more success with other methods. It's easier than you'd think to estimate necessary flash power and set it manually after chimping a shot or two. So RF triggers seem like a good option to me (I have one). I haven't used my flash for a while, so I'd probably want to brush up before trying to photograph an event with flash again. I may get the chance to do some of this again soon as I know someone who is getting married. I'm rather thankful, though, that they are using another amateur photographer friend rather than asking me to do it, so if I shoot parts of the event as well, there will be no pressure. They asked me about doing a video, but I explained that I don't have the gear for that (thank goodness ).

06-25-2015, 11:29 AM	#19
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by clackers There can be a small amount of the popup flash still present, which might be useful for portrait catchlights, but unwanted in something like a carefully-constructed still-life piece (which you're going to use manual for anyway, rather than P-TTL's guesswork). Yes, that is how it works. The trigger pulse for actual exposure is intentionally very short when in controller mode. Steve

06-25-2015, 12:54 PM	#20
max_pyne Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: zurich Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 409	uncle- i have to try it myself.... Im a fan of setting the flashes manual... And there is some confusing information about (P) ttl set up with the cactus system, i was hoping to get some better information... Any how, i have both, started with a cheap solution where you have to set up every thing on the flash it self.... Thats ok and does the job... Got some triggers where you need to set up everything manual and uses the x-sync port... Have the cactus I since some dayes not yet had the time to play... Will do so soon Sent from mobile after drinking some beer :-)

06-25-2015, 01:24 PM	#21
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,401	Originally posted by max_pyne Sent from mobile after drinking some beer :-) LOL - I hope it was GOOD beer.

10-27-2015, 03:02 PM	#23
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,401	I use my k3 to optically trigger my af540fgz with no problems. Two options for this exist wireless master ( on board flash adds to exposure ) and wireless controller, where in theory the on board flash doesn't add to the exposure (it seems to some people that this is not quite true, but it does reduce the effect to a minimum.)

10-27-2015, 04:34 PM	#24
Lake Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Minnesota Posts: 104	When I use optical triggering of an off camera flash and don't want the camera pop up flash to show, I block the front of the pop up flash worth a piece of white plastic. I have a thin end to wedge into the hot shoe

10-29-2015, 11:59 AM	#25
SOldBear Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Alameda, CA Posts: 3,206	Originally posted by Hawki My K20d had the ability to set the the onboard flashes personality in wireless mode with a specific menu option. You could defeat the onboard flash and still fire off a properly setup 360 or 540 offboard flash. It had it's limitations of course ... it worked by IR and of course that really limits its effectiveness, but it worked. Don't let anyone convince you. Use your K20D to take a photo with both the on-board flash and the remote flash visible in the photo (e.g. in front of a mirror) and convince yourself.... I used to take photos of fish in aquaria (or is it aquariums?) for a friend, I know....

10-29-2015, 12:23 PM	#26
AquaDome Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: New Carlisle, IN Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,475	There are a number of cable solutions for off-camera P-TTL. Vello Off-Camera TTL Flash Cord for Pentax Cameras (3') OCS-P3

11-23-2015, 05:03 PM	#27
snostorm Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chicago suburb, IL, USA Posts: 1,535	The easiest thing to do is take some exposed/developed film leader (the black part before the first exposure) and tape it over your on-camera "master". It will block most of the visible light, but let enough IR through to trigger your off-camera flash and the P-TTL preflashes for metering. I went to my local B&M camera shop and they gave me some of these leader sections from their film developing service at no charge. Also, there are a few IR bypass filters that clip onto the pop up flash to block the visible light, but let the IR signals through. Metz makes one and bundles it with it's wireless P-TTL macro flash, but I don't know if it can be obtained separately. Scott