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07-28-2016, 04:46 AM   #31
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I for one would gladly write a fair review of a bag in exchange for keeping it

Maybe I could propose this to Pentax for my lenses reviews? Instead of loaners, I'd get keepers? :P

07-28-2016, 06:30 AM   #32
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That a good strategy, sure.

We can think that all people are ethical and didn't let their report or review to be biased by the fact they got it for free. Some would call that a quite candid view.

In my country, if you are a public agent and you accept present like that (albeit I suppose much bigger), you may be fired, and risk jail. The private company I work for, forbid such behavior too. Maybe they have less candid view on the practice?

Last edited by Nicolas06; 07-28-2016 at 06:55 AM.
07-28-2016, 07:58 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
In my country, if you are a public agent and you accept present like that (albeit I suppose much bigger), you may be fired, and risk jail. The private company I work for, forbid such behavior too. Maybe they have less candid view on the practice?
Indeed, between organizations / companies of course such "presents" would be considered bribes / corruption (even when only small presents are concerned). Most if not all international companies, governments, ... have ethics charters in this sense that employees are required to comply with.

Where private individual consumers are concerned, this restriction doesn't really apply I think. Although forum posting rules might put certain conditions for reviews to ensure their neutrality. However, if a reviewer provides the appropriate disclaimer I see no issue.

Wim
07-28-2016, 08:32 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
We can think that all people are ethical and didn't let their report or review to be biased by the fact they got it for free.
I've seen a lot of reviews where people state upfront hat "they got X item in exchange for a fair review". I think that's just as valid as someone becoming a fanboy or trying to rationalize and justify their purchase by writing praises all over the place.

How many times, when someone asks for advice, do we read replies like "I use X model and it's the best" ? How is spending money or getting a gift any different in this case?

07-28-2016, 01:41 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
I've seen a lot of reviews where people state upfront hat "they got X item in exchange for a fair review". I think that's just as valid as someone becoming a fanboy or trying to rationalize and justify their purchase by writing praises all over the place.

How many times, when someone asks for advice, do we read replies like "I use X model and it's the best" ? How is spending money or getting a gift any different in this case?
This about knowing if you provided a review because you were paid for it (money or something else), or did it because you were thinking the product was really great or because you wanted to inform your peers.
07-29-2016, 05:21 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
This about knowing if you provided a review because you were paid for it (money or something else), or did it because you were thinking the product was really great or because you wanted to inform your peers.
"Serious" reviews are always against compensation. Be it a salary, a loan, a gift, a fee. they are usually done by someone with experience, who knows what to look for, what the weak points are likely to be, what the strong points are likely to be, etc. When I write a lens review, many things are now second nature. I can zero in on flaws (and perks) with ease.

User reviews vary broadly across the range. some are, indeed, written by people who want to inform their peers. But many others are written without perspective. "what lens/bag/tripod do you recommend" threads are often filled with comments not related to the OP's requests/needs.

When someone recommends a hiking tripod, I feel comfortable recommending the one I got. But I won't recommend it when someone DOESN'T ask for a hiking tripod. Mine is not the best for, say, the studio.

As long as the reviewer is honest and doesn't hide anything, I think the source of the equipment is not relevant. Would you blame me because I get loans to play with when I review a lens?
07-30-2016, 09:26 AM   #37
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I frankly applaud Peak Design for offering the new backpack to a member to use, and evaluate honestly. If I was given a chance like this, I would definitely review it honestly, and point out the details I'm not happy with, and also those that really add to the function of the bag. Many of us do not want to purchase a new design until reviews start showing up, so that we can get some idea of the quality and function.

07-31-2016, 01:17 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
"Serious" reviews are always against compensation. Be it a salary, a loan, a gift, a fee. they are usually done by someone with experience, who knows what to look for, what the weak points are likely to be, what the strong points are likely to be, etc. When I write a lens review, many things are now second nature. I can zero in on flaws (and perks) with ease.
Actually that's not the case. You may do the review for a reason, but that reason may not be you being paid/gifted from the manufacturer of one of their representative.

DxOMark review sensors because their business require them to do so. They need to qualibrate camera sensors and gear for their raw processing software anyway. Adding DxoMark website into the mix, give them lot of visibility and cheap advertisement. Until at least they deciced to make their own camera and we saw that for some reason they didn't want to publish the 645Z results, to me they could be seen as quite objective source of information.

Lens rental is maybe the most interresting source of advanced information about lenses. Again because their business require them to do so, they get dozen of samples of every lens model and because they have to keep them in good shape and decided to have their own repair/qualibration in house, they are quite sensitive to the actual quality they get from manufacturer. The guy posting on their blog look passionnate and quite geek and he at least try to be neutral. So the information you get from them is high value. Or at least look to be.

Many websites, magazines at least claim to be neutral and to be independant and make a living out of reviewing products all the year. We have at least 1-2 in France doing just that. They review like a panel of dishwasher, camera or whatever else, at least in theory seriously and provide valuable feedback. Because it is so well known that many of the so called reviews are paid a way or another by the manufacturers, their core business is about being independant. Officially at least you the consumer is the real client.

So you see there still some idealist people, at least some people that claim to be.

In the end this is about trust. There no difference between the guy that pretend to be trustful and the guy you can trust from the outside. So for me there lot of argument to put much less credibility to people once you see they have interrest in lying to you. If for example their business model make them getting more by lying or if you seen lying in the past.

How can I for example trust a dpreview review anymore now that I have seeen them being very subjecitve and negative about K1? I can trust K1 AF not so great. I can't trust it is so bad that you need your kindle while waiting for the AF to do its work.

How can I trust any review of that peak design bag? Their biggest issue by far (for me) is being extremely expensive for what they seems to offer... There hundred of nice photo bag available from many brand, many are great and most are significantly less expensive. But if everybody that give positive review got one for free, sure that they'll tend to be much more forgiving about that point... And the smae guys may not be that interrested to buy another bag by themselve and give a positive review about it... Because they don't need 20 bags.

And if everybody speak about them, I'll just think they offered the bag to more people... Not they are that great. Hey apparently I was not the only one to be offered that proposition. Several posters from that thread got it.

I don't say their bags are bad (I don't think so), or maybe not the best bags ever. It may be... But now for me it would be harder to trust it... In particular from people that said that as long that you provided them a free bag, they go at length to promote it while they would not do if you didn't provided them a gift. That they think nobody (obvisouly including them) would do a serious review if not paid/gifted for it.

Last edited by Nicolas06; 07-31-2016 at 01:38 AM.
08-05-2016, 07:14 AM   #39
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Nicolas06, I don'T see why we appear to be arguing, we're saying mostly the same thing.

When I do a review, of anything, price is one element being considered. The object can be marvelous but its value may be low because of the cost. Price will not influence the design, functionality, or any other aspect. Those should be reviewed separately.

In other words, I'll trust a reviewer whose opinion seems based on facts, and which gives a complete analysis, over a fanboy signing praises or skimming over important review elements. Whetever the source of the item being reviewed, or the compensation.
11-09-2016, 04:18 AM   #40
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Well, I did reply positively to Peak Deasign's inquiry, and I received a pre-production copy of the bag a couple of weeks ago. My review is up on the site here:
Peak Design EveryDay BackPack 20L reviews - Pentax Camera Accessory Review Database

Take it for what it's worth. I like the bag a lot! really!

Wim
11-09-2016, 05:51 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ishpuini Quote
Well, I did reply positively to Peak Deasign's inquiry, and I received a pre-production copy of the bag a couple of weeks ago.
You're lucky to have received such an offer. As stated before, I would have done the same. I don'T know if they contacted many people, seeing as your review is the only one available.

Your review is very through, with good pictures and a nice breakdown of the main features. Kudos, that's good work, and an interesting read. Maybe Peak Design
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