help - what is this tiny winder thing? (Pentax MX film SLR)

stawastawa · 08-15-2016, 11:16 AM

What exactly is the use of this accessory? It fits my MX, but not sure how to use it.
I am unable to find it in the accessory pages (not under winders or misc)

info appreciated, Thanks!

vonBaloney · 08-15-2016, 11:58 AM

Might be for manual back-winding to do double-exposures? I used to do that somehow on a film camera, can't remember exactly how...

TaoMaas · 08-15-2016, 12:07 PM - **1 Like**

I've been a Pentax shooter since there even was an MX...or any K-mount camera for that matter...and I've never seen one of those gizmos. Does that silver pin push in your rewind button on the bottom of the camera? And are there any markings on the thumbwheel? It almost looks like it's some kind of device to let you accurately rewind your film. Back before digital processing, people would double-expose film to create certain effects. One of the more popular things was to shoot a roll of just the moon in various positions in a black sky. Then you would rewind your film so you could go back and shoot other shots on top of the moon shots. The new photos would appear in the black areas of the moon photos and a moon would be placed in the new pics. But to make this trick work, it helped to be able to accurately rewind your film so that your new exposures were exactly on top of your old ones. The LX could count frames backwards, but I don't think the MX or ME could. Maybe this device was for something along those lines. I'll be curious to see what you find out.

---------- Post added 08-15-2016 at 02:08 PM ----------

Originally posted by vonBaloney

Might be for manual back-winding to do double-exposures? I used to do that somehow on a film camera, can't remember exactly how...

GMTA!

You just said it a lot more concisely than I was able to do.

pathdoc · 08-15-2016, 12:19 PM

Almost certainly, you have now started a mad scramble among MX etc. owners to find one of these gizmos for themselves.

I can see the film rewind pin well clear of this device. I suspect the pin on the device's contact surface is a stop-pin to allow exactly one frame rewind, then you have to pull it off to reset it. Let's see what turns up!

**seventhdr** · 08-15-2016, 01:44 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by stawastawa

What exactly is the use of this accessory? It fits my MX, but not sure how to use it.
I am unable to find it in the accessory pages (not under winders or misc)

info appreciated, Thanks!

It's a Pentax MX Motor Drive accessory. When the 250 exposure bulk film back is attached to a Pentax with Motor Drive MX attached the film is advanced using the ear wheel on the Motor Drive.

When the 250 exposure bulk film back is attached BUT NO Motor Drive is attached this attachment allows the film to be advanced in the bulk film back.

I have similar items for the Pentax LX and Spotmatic motor drives cameras.

It's a quite rare find.

Regards

Chris

stawastawa · 08-15-2016, 02:55 PM

Thank you chris!
do you know of any use for it without the 250 exposure bulk film back?
I do have a bulk film loader, but no bulk film back =(

any informational links? I'm surprised the accessory pages don't have the bulk film backs either.

Originally posted by seventhdr

It's a Pentax MX Motor Drive accessory. When the 250 exposure bulk film back is attached to a Pentax with Motor Drive MX attached the film is advanced using the ear wheel on the Motor Drive.

When the 250 exposure bulk film back is attached BUT NO Motor Drive is attached this attachment allows the film to be advanced in the bulk film back.

Chris

vonBaloney · 08-15-2016, 03:00 PM

Originally posted by stawastawa

Thank you chris!
do you know of any use for it without the 250 exposure bulk film back?
I do have a bulk film loader, but no bulk film back =(

any informational links? I'm surprised the accessory pages don't have the bulk film backs either.

If it advances film in the bulk loader, probably nothing you can do with it except to sell it to someone who is still using such a thing. It's RARE!!!

77me · 08-15-2016, 07:59 PM

Originally posted by vonBaloney

Might be for manual back-winding to do double-exposures? I used to do that somehow on a film camera, can't remember exactly how...

I use to do double exposures by pressing down the rewind button while using the film advance lever.

vonBaloney · 08-15-2016, 08:59 PM

Originally posted by 77me

I use to do double exposures by pressing down the rewind button while using the film advance lever.

Yeah, I was trying to remember (early 90s would have been the last time I was doing something like that) -- so you just disengage and cock it without advancing, no rewinding needed.

CarlG · 08-16-2016, 10:54 AM

It is called a coupler, if I found the right part in the bulk film back manual. See Pentax Bulk Film Magazine MX Manual (Page 6 of 28) (but the quality is horrible).

stawastawa · 08-20-2016, 01:37 PM

well, I'm going to add this coupler to the bulk film loader and the cassettes and find someone-one who needs it. feel free to pm me if interested.

**pacerr** · 08-20-2016, 09:33 PM

Originally posted by vonBaloney

-- so you just disengage and cock it without advancing, no rewinding needed.

Yes, but take up any slack first with the rewind knob and hold it in place to prevent any slight advance when re-cocking for the second shot.

It's helpful to plan on using any etched lines or split-image spots to assist in composing the two scenes.

If you take a whole roll of images rather than making an immediate overlay shot it helps to sketch and record each composition and note the exposure of each frame for future reference. Also carefully index the film when loading so it can be precisely re-positioned later.

vonBaloney · 08-20-2016, 09:46 PM

Originally posted by pacerr

Yes, but take up any slack first with the rewind knob and hold it in place to prevent any slight advance when re-cocking for the second shot.

It's helpful to plan on using any etched lines or split-image spots to assist in composing the two scenes.

If you take a whole roll of images rather than making an immediate overlay shot it helps to sketch and record each composition and note the exposure of each frame for future reference. Also carefully index the film when loading so it can be precisely re-positioned later.

Yeah, I remember doing that which is what I was confusing it with. I didn't do it for double-exposures, but once in a while something would come up where I'd be halfway through a roll and I needed to use a different type of film (only one body) so I'd rewind and unload, load the second roll, and the later go back and reload the first roll and carefully advance to just beyond where I'd left off. Student on a budget you know...

77me · 08-21-2016, 02:07 AM

Originally posted by vonBaloney

Yeah, I remember doing that which is what I was confusing it with. I didn't do it for double-exposures, but once in a while something would come up where I'd be halfway through a roll and I needed to use a different type of film (only one body) so I'd rewind and unload, load the second roll, and the later go back and reload the first roll and carefully advance to just beyond where I'd left off. Student on a budget you know...

I did this much more than double exposures. I would often have a roll of tri-x and roll of something else and switch back and forth. I think I usually advanced 1 extra frame when reloading so I tried not to switch too often. I remember being really bummed a few times when I forgot to change the ASA setting.

TaoMaas · 08-21-2016, 06:40 AM

Originally posted by 77me

I did this much more than double exposures. I would often have a roll of tri-x and roll of something else and switch back and forth. I think I usually advanced 1 extra frame when reloading so I tried not to switch too often. I remember being really bummed a few times when I forgot to change the ASA setting.

I used to do this, too, until one time when my lab aligned the first frame of my slide film in the mounter, then sent the whole roll through. Since the registration was off due to me having taken the film out of the camera, then reloading it...the slide mounter ended up chopping all my slides on the last part of the roll in half.

08-15-2016, 11:16 AM	#1
stawastawa Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 28	help - what is this tiny winder thing? (Pentax MX film SLR) What exactly is the use of this accessory? It fits my MX, but not sure how to use it. I am unable to find it in the accessory pages (not under winders or misc) info appreciated, Thanks!

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08-15-2016, 11:58 AM	#2
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	Might be for manual back-winding to do double-exposures? I used to do that somehow on a film camera, can't remember exactly how...

08-15-2016, 12:07 PM - 1 Like	#3
TaoMaas Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,574	I've been a Pentax shooter since there even was an MX...or any K-mount camera for that matter...and I've never seen one of those gizmos. Does that silver pin push in your rewind button on the bottom of the camera? And are there any markings on the thumbwheel? It almost looks like it's some kind of device to let you accurately rewind your film. Back before digital processing, people would double-expose film to create certain effects. One of the more popular things was to shoot a roll of just the moon in various positions in a black sky. Then you would rewind your film so you could go back and shoot other shots on top of the moon shots. The new photos would appear in the black areas of the moon photos and a moon would be placed in the new pics. But to make this trick work, it helped to be able to accurately rewind your film so that your new exposures were exactly on top of your old ones. The LX could count frames backwards, but I don't think the MX or ME could. Maybe this device was for something along those lines. I'll be curious to see what you find out. ---------- Post added 08-15-2016 at 02:08 PM ---------- Originally posted by vonBaloney Might be for manual back-winding to do double-exposures? I used to do that somehow on a film camera, can't remember exactly how... GMTA! You just said it a lot more concisely than I was able to do.

08-15-2016, 12:19 PM	#4
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	Almost certainly, you have now started a mad scramble among MX etc. owners to find one of these gizmos for themselves. I can see the film rewind pin well clear of this device. I suspect the pin on the device's contact surface is a stop-pin to allow exactly one frame rewind, then you have to pull it off to reset it. Let's see what turns up!

08-15-2016, 01:44 PM - 2 Likes	#5
seventhdr Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Christchurch, New Zealand Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,440	Originally posted by stawastawa What exactly is the use of this accessory? It fits my MX, but not sure how to use it. I am unable to find it in the accessory pages (not under winders or misc) info appreciated, Thanks! It's a Pentax MX Motor Drive accessory. When the 250 exposure bulk film back is attached to a Pentax with Motor Drive MX attached the film is advanced using the ear wheel on the Motor Drive. When the 250 exposure bulk film back is attached BUT NO Motor Drive is attached this attachment allows the film to be advanced in the bulk film back. I have similar items for the Pentax LX and Spotmatic motor drives cameras. It's a quite rare find. Regards Chris

08-15-2016, 02:55 PM	#6
stawastawa Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 28 Original Poster	Thank you chris! do you know of any use for it without the 250 exposure bulk film back? I do have a bulk film loader, but no bulk film back =( any informational links? I'm surprised the accessory pages don't have the bulk film backs either. Originally posted by seventhdr It's a Pentax MX Motor Drive accessory. When the 250 exposure bulk film back is attached to a Pentax with Motor Drive MX attached the film is advanced using the ear wheel on the Motor Drive. When the 250 exposure bulk film back is attached BUT NO Motor Drive is attached this attachment allows the film to be advanced in the bulk film back. Chris

08-15-2016, 03:00 PM	#7
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	Originally posted by stawastawa Thank you chris! do you know of any use for it without the 250 exposure bulk film back? I do have a bulk film loader, but no bulk film back =( any informational links? I'm surprised the accessory pages don't have the bulk film backs either. If it advances film in the bulk loader, probably nothing you can do with it except to sell it to someone who is still using such a thing. It's RARE!!!

08-15-2016, 07:59 PM	#8
77me Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 150	Originally posted by vonBaloney Might be for manual back-winding to do double-exposures? I used to do that somehow on a film camera, can't remember exactly how... I use to do double exposures by pressing down the rewind button while using the film advance lever.

08-15-2016, 08:59 PM	#9
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	Originally posted by 77me I use to do double exposures by pressing down the rewind button while using the film advance lever. Yeah, I was trying to remember (early 90s would have been the last time I was doing something like that) -- so you just disengage and cock it without advancing, no rewinding needed.

08-16-2016, 10:54 AM	#10
CarlG Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 417	It is called a coupler, if I found the right part in the bulk film back manual. See Pentax Bulk Film Magazine MX Manual (Page 6 of 28) (but the quality is horrible).

08-20-2016, 01:37 PM	#11
stawastawa Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 28 Original Poster	well, I'm going to add this coupler to the bulk film loader and the cassettes and find someone-one who needs it. feel free to pm me if interested.

08-20-2016, 09:33 PM	#12
pacerr Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Paris, TN Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,349	Originally posted by vonBaloney -- so you just disengage and cock it without advancing, no rewinding needed. Yes, but take up any slack first with the rewind knob and hold it in place to prevent any slight advance when re-cocking for the second shot. It's helpful to plan on using any etched lines or split-image spots to assist in composing the two scenes. If you take a whole roll of images rather than making an immediate overlay shot it helps to sketch and record each composition and note the exposure of each frame for future reference. Also carefully index the film when loading so it can be precisely re-positioned later.

08-20-2016, 09:46 PM	#13
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	Originally posted by pacerr Yes, but take up any slack first with the rewind knob and hold it in place to prevent any slight advance when re-cocking for the second shot. It's helpful to plan on using any etched lines or split-image spots to assist in composing the two scenes. If you take a whole roll of images rather than making an immediate overlay shot it helps to sketch and record each composition and note the exposure of each frame for future reference. Also carefully index the film when loading so it can be precisely re-positioned later. Yeah, I remember doing that which is what I was confusing it with. I didn't do it for double-exposures, but once in a while something would come up where I'd be halfway through a roll and I needed to use a different type of film (only one body) so I'd rewind and unload, load the second roll, and the later go back and reload the first roll and carefully advance to just beyond where I'd left off. Student on a budget you know...

08-21-2016, 02:07 AM	#14
77me Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 150	Originally posted by vonBaloney Yeah, I remember doing that which is what I was confusing it with. I didn't do it for double-exposures, but once in a while something would come up where I'd be halfway through a roll and I needed to use a different type of film (only one body) so I'd rewind and unload, load the second roll, and the later go back and reload the first roll and carefully advance to just beyond where I'd left off. Student on a budget you know... I did this much more than double exposures. I would often have a roll of tri-x and roll of something else and switch back and forth. I think I usually advanced 1 extra frame when reloading so I tried not to switch too often. I remember being really bummed a few times when I forgot to change the ASA setting.

08-21-2016, 06:40 AM	#15
TaoMaas Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,574	Originally posted by 77me I did this much more than double exposures. I would often have a roll of tri-x and roll of something else and switch back and forth. I think I usually advanced 1 extra frame when reloading so I tried not to switch too often. I remember being really bummed a few times when I forgot to change the ASA setting. I used to do this, too, until one time when my lab aligned the first frame of my slide film in the mounter, then sent the whole roll through. Since the registration was off due to me having taken the film out of the camera, then reloading it...the slide mounter ended up chopping all my slides on the last part of the roll in half.