[x_goal]

Couple of days ago I was looking for a second set of batteries and came across Delkin Power web page (Delkin Devices Batteries). They've got Ready to Use 2300mAh Rechargeable AA Batteries ($36 with charger) and Extended Power 2900mAh Rechargeable AA Batteries ($30 with charger). Batteries sold separately for $18 and $17 respectively. Their Quick Charger has delta-V end-of-charge detection.
Is this brand any good?

[danielchtong]

I use Moby Power RCR-V3 Li-ion packs (from Thomas Distributing) in my K100D Super. They are not recommended (some brands of RCR-V3 are 3.6V - mine are 3.3V o/c). I like them because they last for ages and they are lighter then Ni-MH. The rated capacity is only 1160mA, which would make you think that they won't last very long, but they do - I think it's more about their voltage discharge slope compared to Ni-MH, rather than absolute capacity (at least with the K100D series - don't know if the K200D is as voltage sensitive). I have Sanyo Eneloops but I've never bothered using them in the camera.

I believe the reason CR-V3s (and RCR-V3) are now not recommended in a K200D is that they are fractionally longer than AA and this interferes with the weathersealing of the battery compartment. I don't know how true this is. Maybe someone who has a K200D can comment. It may still be possible, although it may compromise the weathersealing (at least from the bottom - may not be that important).

Batt performance NiMH & CRV3-R - Pentax / Samsung dSLR - Digital SLR Cameras - Steves-digicams.com Forums

I had a long thread on this controversial subject. Well Pentax is not recommending that . But Samsung happens to have made the best RCRV3 as shown. But it seems the trend is for proprietory battery. That is about it

Daniel

[RiceHigh]

Hi!
Last week I picked up a pack of Vanson Ni-Mh AA's (2100mAh) + charger (batteries and charger in a set) for my new K200. Now, after full load the batteries only last for a couple of shots. I'd say about 30-40 shots.
I find that unacceptable and not even usable for my camera.
My question is basically what kind of charger and batteries the rest of you K200d shooters are using? And particularly, which chargers+batteries are good enough to keep the camera alive for those 700 shots promised by Pentax when using Ni-Mh.

Thx in advance!

Use *Regulated* RCR-V3!:

RiceHigh's Pentax Blog: When 1100mAh Li-ion RCR-V3s Outperform 2500mAh+ NiMH AAs ..

[Stratman]

Get a few sets of Eneloops, you will NOT be disappointed.

[RiceHigh]

Get a few sets of Eneloops, you will NOT be disappointed.

I had got Eneloop myself but they are not as good as my RCR-V3 (the AF is slower, battery half-depleted warning appeared under heavier power demand and they are heavier and so on). So, the Eneloops went to my wireless mouse, keyboard and torches etc. now :-)

[Stratman]

Well, since Pentax says do NOT use rechargeable CRV-3 batteries, I am recommending his best option that will not void his warranty. I have 2 sets of Eneloops, and have had consistently great results with them. I also have a set of Ray O Vac Hybrids, that are also great, but have only went through 2 charges with them, so I can't really say they are as good as the Eneloops.

[nakey]

I wonder why CRV-3 batteries cannot be used in the K200D,i used them with my K100D,and they worked great.

Simple. they won't fit

on the 6MP DSLRs, each battery section (for either 2 AAs or 1 CR-V3) has a flat side and a side with a ridge. the flat side is there to accommodate the flat side of the CR-V3, the ridge is there to accommodate the groove in the CRV3, and to separate the AAs in each bay

on the K200D, there's ridges on both sides. CR-V3s are just not going to fit. Length and weathersealing wouldn't be an issue with CR-V3s if the camera body was designed to take them. However, the K200D was not designed for them

not that i'd lament over it. a 4 pack of energizer Lithium AAs is the same price as 1 CR-V3 primary down here (and remember, you need 2 CR-V3s to run the camera) . a set of 2 rechargable regulated CR-V3s and chargers (enough to keep one 6MP DSLR running) is the same cost as one genuine Canon 40D battery, and enough to get you 3 sets of Powerex 2700s and a decent Delta-V charger

I think it's more about their voltage discharge slope compared to Ni-MH, rather than absolute capacity

You're right. it's Li-ion's voltage discharge slope, both for self discharge and under load. that's why you don't need as high a capacity with Li-ions than you do with Ni-MH

no battery technology is perfect, and Lithium-ion does have it's flaws. They'll kill themselves within 2 years or so, they don't like being kept on charge 24-7 (remember the apple ipod battery controversy? they kept their ipods charged in the dock. that's the reason for the failing batteries), they don't like lots of full-charge to discharge to full charge cycles, and when put in the wrong situation (electrical short, faulty charger, damage to the cells), they blow up.

Maybe someone who has a K200D can comment. It may still be possible, although it may compromise the weathersealing (at least from the bottom - may not be that important).

Yeah, it'll compromise the weather sealling.. your battery door would be open :P

I had a long thread on this controversial subject. Well Pentax is not recommending that . But Samsung happens to have made the best RCRV3 as shown.

Daniel

the reason Pentax don't recommend rechargable CR-V3s is because of Lithium-ion/Lithium Polymer's native voltage

3.7-4.2 volts. 3.8 nominal.

I get about 4.1 on the 18650s i've gotten from DX for my Cree flashlight. my 2S1P Lipos in my RC car are 7.2v (hense the 2S1P, 2 Serial, 1 Parallel). Look at your cell phone battery. that's generally a single cell 1S1P Lithium-Ion battery. chances are that it's 3.7v too.

the samsung battery in that thread of yours, rice's rechargable CR-V3 and dosdan's ones are all regulated. that is, there's a regulation circuit inside the battery that drops its' output voltage to 3v.

not every rechargeable CR-V3 battery does that. and putting 3.8-4.1v into your camera is, unless pentax designed their power delivery circuitry to be this robust, a recipe for failure. having not risked it with my cameras, i don't know the real life application of using a non-regulated rechargeable CR-V3 as i'm not willing to risk my camera by doing that

Now that my *ist DS has been resigned to backup duties, i might get one. though for 120 for a set of 2 Uniross ones with chargers, it's not top of my priority list. importing from overseas isn't much cheaper, and i'm not going to get it from cheap places like DX cause there's a huge chance that they're not regulated batteries...

In the ist-D I gave my daughter, fresh charged rechargeables will last for around 70 shots while alkaline will do a little over 100.

3 reasons for that

1: batteries left in the camera for a long time
2: the charger isn't fully charging the batteries
3: there's something wrong with your AA rechargable batteries

I've done about 500 on my K200D today alone. not even showing half. Mind you, i pulsed the batteries before, so i knew they were fully charged.

Under high load, the NiMH will beat alkalines. However, their self discharge rates leave a lot to be desired.

Long life Ni-MH batteris, (Uniross Hybros, Varta long life, eneloops, Imedions, etc) have better discharge rates (something like 10% per year, as opposed to 3% per day), but have smaller capacities (2000-2100mAh, vs 2500+)

I have not tried rechargable lithium in 'standard' battery sizes (in fact weren't even aware of them), so I can't speak one way or the other.

don't, unless you want a dead camera. Again, AA sized lithium Ion batteries are 3.7 volts, 3 times the voltage of a rechargable AA, more than 2 times the voltage of an alkaline AA

Link from a battery supplier i use talking about Li-ion AA

Rechargeable Regulated CR-V3s are a thought for the 6MP DSLR generation, and i'm sure they're pretty good, but i'm just worried about if the regulator circuit fails. i've had protection circuits fail in rechargeable CR123 and 18650 Li-ion batteries and i just don't want to risk it in something that i can ill afford to replace



I don't get how people complain about battery weight in cameras. i can't tell the difference between when i have AA lithiums or rechargeable 2700s in my camera. Last time i checked, there was a marginal difference of (i think) 75ish grams between my Sanyo 2500s and Energiser AAs. I know you can tell the difference when you hold the batteries by themselves in your hands. It could be just me, but when those batteries are inside a 1.5 kilo camera rig (*ist DS, 18-200, AF540FGZ) , i can't tell the difference.

[JETninja]

Something not discussed enough in this thread (touched on briefly) is chargers!

The cheapo chargers in Target. Walmart etc are either slow or rapid, and both types stop charging when the first cell is fully charged. The rest of the battereis never make it to full charge. And those rapid chargers (15mins!) kill batteries. Heat is the enemy of all batteries. Toss them all in the trash, you have a nice camera, don't cheap out on battries or the technology to keep your batteries healthy.

You want a Charger that will charge smartly, keep them cool, and charge and status each cell seperately.

There are many brands usually in the $30 and up range that can do this. Some nice ones at Amazon, and one brand mentioned earlier in this thread. I picked up a Sony charger (have a new K200D arriving Sat!) with 4 2700 NiMH cells at Frys that charges and can refresh each cell separately. It takes on average about 100mins depending on the cell type. Those 2700 NiMH batteries will be for long shooting days at the races, but I also picked up Ray-O-Vac pre-charged 2100 NiMH cells (like enolopes that Frys does not carry) and these will live in the Camera so it is always ready to use since these still have almost 80% of their charge after 6 months, perfect for sitting in the camera.....

[Nico]

I am also strongly believe that the battery performance and long life depends on the charger. As stated previously 15min charger = death.

I use Sony BCG-34HRMF charger with Sony Ni-MH 2700mAh. The charger has a lcd display that indicate charge level for each battery. Voltage at the end of the charge is 1.45Volts. Total charge time is about 4hrs . I am able fii a 4G card with lots of delete, playback and edit in between.

For the second set of battry I purchased a Energizer. After initial full charge it died after about 3 shots (QC problem???). I exchange them for Duracel 2650maH. They work well just like the Sony.

Sony BGC-34 has a Refresh feature. It fully discharges the battery before recharging them. It also let you know when each battery's life has reached the end.

[JETninja]

....... I use Sony BCG-34HRMF charger with Sony Ni-MH 2700mAh. The charger has a lcd display that indicate charge level for each battery. Voltage at the end of the charge is 1.45Volts. Total charge time is about 4hrs . I am able fill a 4G card with lots of delete, playback and edit in between.

.....Sony BGC-34 has a Refresh feature. It fully discharges the battery before recharging them. It also let you know when each battery's life has reached the end.

Yeah, thats the one I picked up a Fry's, I'm impressed with it so far. (Have only recharged some DVD Player remote AAA's on it...but they stayed cool throughout the process)

You should look into getting some of the stay charged Hybrids just to keep in the camera...they run in the 2000-2100 mAh. Nice to always have the camera work when ever you need it. Enolopes or Rayovac and others...they're getting popular. Tonight at Target I saw a new Energizer charger with 4 hybrids, it was advertised as an hour charger (approx depending on cell size/capacity) and had an LED for each cell. Probably doesn't charge each separately, but a step in the right direction. Was being clearence for $18. LOL!

[nakey]

mine doesn't charge each seperately either, which isn't too bad. the important thing it that it senses the battery. Delta-V, as in there is, i believe a small drop in voltage over a very short time when the cell is full.

i use a Maha MH-C204W. nice and fast, 1A current with 2 cells, .5A current with 4. It'll do me, until i can afford the 2A 8 cell C801D

there was another thread on rechargables, and how important the charger is, but that went to shit quickly

[rburgoss]

When I first got my ist-D some years ago (plus BG-1), I got a couple of no name sets of 4AA's plus wall charger. AA's are 2500 Mah. When first used, I noticed that they lasted for less than 200 shots (using 8 AA in camera and BG-1).

I assumed this was about the "average" number of shots I could get from such set, but about two years ago, I forgot to pack the chargers and borrowed a friend's "energizer" wall charger for a night. Next day, I was able to shoot over 500 shots and battery indicator still showed full charge.

To make this long story short, I went to purchase a couple of those energizer chargers and since then, I've been able to get 600 and more shots from the 8 AA's (in camera plus BG1). FWIW, Ive used Duracell Alkalines in emergencies, but never been able to get more than 200 shots from a set (8 AA's remember).

So, it boils down to the charger

RB

[x_goal]

I don't know about power consumption in other models of Pentax DSLR, but K200D is definitely a "power saver"!
This is my experience: I've got camera on July 1st, put in a set of Duracell 2650mAh NiMH rechargeable batteries and so far haven't even opened battery compartment yet... And battery indicator is still at 100%! I've made somewhere between 700 and 800 shots (approximately 10-15% with flash), and more important - the batteries are sitting there for 18 days! Note that these are regular NiMH (not pre-charged that keep charge much longer). Some people say regular NiMH discharge in a couple of days - it's not true! At least good brands do not.
I've learned I do not need any other kind of batteries for my K200D except NiMH. As a back up, in order not to be caught somewhere without power, I bought a set of Sanyo Eneloop (pre-charged). I guess that's all I need...

I'll keep you posted on how many shots and time I can squeeze from Duracell

[SteveB]

I've had a few sets of Uniross Hybrios now for 20 months and charge them with a 2+2 type of smart charger that charges at 1A (measured) then switches to pulsed trickle at 1A for 1 sec every 16 secs approx. I've just been away for a week, taking hundreds of shots, and the same set are still showing full. So, no problems with life expectancy of these low self-discharge NiMh cells or deteriorating performance (unlike Li-Ons). I usually either get about 600 shots per charge or they sit in the camera for weeks little used and then are still fine for a lot of shots without a recharge. They're nigh on perfect for the K100D/K200D, as are Eneloops, and a spare charged set are good for a backup because of that low self-discharge rate.

The 2+2 charger doesn't seem to have harmed my Hybrios in any way, they all give exactly the same voltage throughout their discharge.

[madbrain]

I don't know about power consumption in other models of Pentax DSLR, but K200D is definitely a "power saver"!
This is my experience: I've got camera on July 1st, put in a set of Duracell 2650mAh NiMH rechargeable batteries and so far haven't even opened battery compartment yet... And battery indicator is still at 100%! I've made somewhere between 700 and 800 shots (approximately 10-15% with flash), and more important - the batteries are sitting there for 18 days! Note that these are regular NiMH (not pre-charged that keep charge much longer). Some people say regular NiMH discharge in a couple of days - it's not true! At least good brands do not.
I've learned I do not need any other kind of batteries for my K200D except NiMH. As a back up, in order not to be caught somewhere without power, I bought a set of Sanyo Eneloop (pre-charged). I guess that's all I need...

I'll keep you posted on how many shots and time I can squeeze from Duracell

I was able to get over 1600 shots (in continuous mode) without having the battery indicator move, on a set of 2500 mAh NIMH batteries. That's probably because the LCD screen was hardly used.

However, some NiMH batteries are better than others. On my recent trip to Europe, I took about 8 sets of batteries with me. I did have a few sets that self discharged in a few days. Those were mostly Energizers 2300 NIMH I bought a few years ago. I ran out of battery at the top of the Eiffel tower at night even though I had 2 spare sets that I had recharged 2 days before. Neither set worked in my K200D ... Even the other NIMH batteries that worked in my flash did not work in the K200D, because the insulation had been removed on some of them (this is actually documented in the manual ...). I ended up buying some Duracell alkalines on the spot, which only lasted about 4 days. After that, I put the Lithium batteries that came with it. They are still in the camera.

I just ordered a fancy charger (MAHA 9000) from Thomas Distributing in order to be able to measure the charge of all my batteries. I have been using NIMH batteries for many years, and I know some of them have got to be dead or fast discharging. I also ordered a few sets of Eneloops.