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06-25-2018, 06:31 PM   #1
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Focusing Screen or LV Aid or Tenpa 1.36 Magnifier?

So I spent a considerable amount of time this weekend with the Samyang 85/1.4, the first time since I got it (a couple weeks back) that I have really put it through it's paces.
The conclusion I have come to is that nailing f1.4-2.0 are just too difficult with the ovf, yet these are often the stand out shots you achieve when you luckily nail that shot. My eye sight is pretty good, I can look through the ovf with these apertures set and see what I perceive to being the right kind of optimum sharpness obtained yet the shot can be quite soft, I simply missed the right focus. When using the ovf at these apertures the subject can look in EQUAL sharpness with no real deterioration for quite some fiddly of the focus ring, however when switching to the LV and watching what happens with the subject it becomes quite obvious quite quickly that there is a far smaller window of 'peak sharpness/focus' for the user to act on, and this is the right focus point i.e. it's just simply far far easier to use LV with these apertures set on this piece of glass (and in fact most pieces of glass).

So I don't know how to feel about all this. LV is kind for nailing focus, especially MF glass where you're doing very tricky narrow DoF shots indeed, my problem is I hate using it. I feel semi comfortable using it with a monopod or tripodded but any other method feels very yucky. A lot of this also has to do with my poor back health, using an OVF is the most comfortable shooting experience, monopodding, flipping the LV screen out and tilting up is better but still stressful due to the angle my neck and head is pulled down to look at the screen (possibly too short a monopod), possibly a LV aid that fits over the screen and allow me to look through the camera in a similar manner to an OVF method might be better, but then those things look a bit ridiculous, add significant bulk to the camera and I'm worried that it will move the camera too far away from the body which contributes to back strain etc. Monopod also means always bringing it with me and adds bulk to the shooting experience etc.

I've read a little about replacing the focusing screen, but I am put off if then shooting other lenses and stopping down with lower apertures such as f5-10 then the ovf becomes increasingly hard to see through. This still might be the preferred course of action however, portraits is more my thing and I love to shoot with thin DoF where possible. Stopping down is something I do for landscapes more anyway so LV is usually what I use for this task...

I have the Pentax O-ME53 that I find more of a hindrance than a help. It's helpful if focusing dead on centre but if you frame your shots off centre using MF then the subject becomes 'cloudier' and less easier to see if they are in focus or not, it's basically only helpful for looking straight ahead, things above and below and left and right of centre appear more blurry. Taking it off and you can see the sharpness and focus easier on things off centre through the ovf for sure.
I've read that the Tenpa 1.36 is really quite good, but I'm not sure if magnification is going to help, especially if it has a similar experience to the O-ME53 in which the centre is only being helped and not so much the edges (or basically the edges at the expense of the centre). However people do say even the Tenpa 1.2 is significantly better than the O-ME53 magnifier...

Hmm...

I'm not sure which direction to head down. LV aids (better taller monopod or ovf like contraption that straps on) doesn't fill me with much joy as it's a significant accessory to carry around. The focusing screen is the most streamlined option but perhaps the most drastic. The Tenpa 1.36 is also a pricey gamble, they're $120AUD now and don't necessarily guarantee a better shooting experience...

I guess I'm just writing down my current thoughts here, hoping perhaps someone else has felt similarly, perhaps even tried all 3 options and can weigh in with their 2 cents with what they felt was the best upgrade/improvement.

I'm never going to have funds for a FA 85/1.4, and the thing is I've never been overly chuffed with Pentax's AF system. I can have the single SEL point right on an eye for example yet the eyebrow get's most of the focus and the eye itself less, which is what kinda prompted me down the road of MF lenses. Some glass is certainly easier to nail focus manually, such as the DFA 100/2.8 or even shooting very wide with the FA50/1.4. The Samyang is definitely a hard lens to master (but when it works it is the stuff of legend!), currently I feel I am at a crossroads, I simply cannot improve through the OVF because I have a hunch that it is just not that great for this kind of task.

Decisions decisions...

Thanks for listening!

Bruce

06-25-2018, 08:24 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
So I spent a considerable amount of time this weekend with the Samyang 85/1.4, the first time since I got it (a couple weeks back) that I have really put it through it's paces.
The conclusion I have come to is that nailing f1.4-2.0 are just too difficult with the ovf, yet these are often the stand out shots you achieve when you luckily nail that shot. My eye sight is pretty good, I can look through the ovf with these apertures set and see what I perceive to being the right kind of optimum sharpness obtained yet the shot can be quite soft, I simply missed the right focus. When using the ovf at these apertures the subject can look in EQUAL sharpness with no real deterioration for quite some fiddly of the focus ring, however when switching to the LV and watching what happens with the subject it becomes quite obvious quite quickly that there is a far smaller window of 'peak sharpness/focus' for the user to act on, and this is the right focus point i.e. it's just simply far far easier to use LV with these apertures set on this piece of glass (and in fact most pieces of glass).

So I don't know how to feel about all this. LV is kind for nailing focus, especially MF glass where you're doing very tricky narrow DoF shots indeed, my problem is I hate using it. I feel semi comfortable using it with a monopod or tripodded but any other method feels very yucky. A lot of this also has to do with my poor back health, using an OVF is the most comfortable shooting experience, monopodding, flipping the LV screen out and tilting up is better but still stressful due to the angle my neck and head is pulled down to look at the screen (possibly too short a monopod), possibly a LV aid that fits over the screen and allow me to look through the camera in a similar manner to an OVF method might be better, but then those things look a bit ridiculous, add significant bulk to the camera and I'm worried that it will move the camera too far away from the body which contributes to back strain etc. Monopod also means always bringing it with me and adds bulk to the shooting experience etc.

I've read a little about replacing the focusing screen, but I am put off if then shooting other lenses and stopping down with lower apertures such as f5-10 then the ovf becomes increasingly hard to see through. This still might be the preferred course of action however, portraits is more my thing and I love to shoot with thin DoF where possible. Stopping down is something I do for landscapes more anyway so LV is usually what I use for this task...

I have the Pentax O-ME53 that I find more of a hindrance than a help. It's helpful if focusing dead on centre but if you frame your shots off centre using MF then the subject becomes 'cloudier' and less easier to see if they are in focus or not, it's basically only helpful for looking straight ahead, things above and below and left and right of centre appear more blurry. Taking it off and you can see the sharpness and focus easier on things off centre through the ovf for sure.
I've read that the Tenpa 1.36 is really quite good, but I'm not sure if magnification is going to help, especially if it has a similar experience to the O-ME53 in which the centre is only being helped and not so much the edges (or basically the edges at the expense of the centre). However people do say even the Tenpa 1.2 is significantly better than the O-ME53 magnifier...

Hmm...

I'm not sure which direction to head down. LV aids (better taller monopod or ovf like contraption that straps on) doesn't fill me with much joy as it's a significant accessory to carry around. The focusing screen is the most streamlined option but perhaps the most drastic. The Tenpa 1.36 is also a pricey gamble, they're $120AUD now and don't necessarily guarantee a better shooting experience...

I guess I'm just writing down my current thoughts here, hoping perhaps someone else has felt similarly, perhaps even tried all 3 options and can weigh in with their 2 cents with what they felt was the best upgrade/improvement.

I'm never going to have funds for a FA 85/1.4, and the thing is I've never been overly chuffed with Pentax's AF system. I can have the single SEL point right on an eye for example yet the eyebrow get's most of the focus and the eye itself less, which is what kinda prompted me down the road of MF lenses. Some glass is certainly easier to nail focus manually, such as the DFA 100/2.8 or even shooting very wide with the FA50/1.4. The Samyang is definitely a hard lens to master (but when it works it is the stuff of legend!), currently I feel I am at a crossroads, I simply cannot improve through the OVF because I have a hunch that it is just not that great for this kind of task.

Decisions decisions...

Thanks for listening!

Bruce
Wow - A lot to respond to. First - I used to own the A* 85 f/1.4 which isn't the same as the lens you have but is similar enough I think to compare experiences. I also have really poor vision so there too we differ, my back doesn't normally give me much trouble but I know what it can feel like. I sold my A* 85 f/1.4 and bought the FA 77 f1.8 as a way of getting as close as I could to the A* experience from an AF lens. (The two are designed by the same designer and they have similar character in my opinon.)

I tried Live View, and I tried OVF, and I tried magnification, etc. I did NOT try a focusing screen replacement - although I did buy one with that in mind. The Live View was semi-successful but not overly so. Like you, I found a bit of awkwardness in live view. Overall I don't shoot super thin DOF portraits so I rarely see this problem anymore but I can remember it from the A* 85 days.

The OVF with Magnifier only works with central subjects. Maybe you should get a good Hoodman or something like that where you can treat the LCD as a viewfinder by holding that to your eye?
06-25-2018, 09:59 PM   #3
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It was when I first started shooting with the Jupiter-9 85/2 that I realized that manual focus with the stock screen on my K10D was not going to cut it. Purchase of my KatzEye* with split-image/microprism truly changed my life as far as manual focus goes. There is a reason why classic film SLRs all had focus aides as standard equipment. Fine focus at f/2 and wider is just plain difficult without some sort of help.


Steve

* RIP KatzEye...you are sorely missed. (The company, that is. The last I heard Racheal Katz was alive and well.)
06-25-2018, 10:16 PM   #4
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I can't speak to your specific lens but over the last ten years I've been down the road of Focusing Screen, LV Aids, and the Tenpa 1.36 Magnifier (and other knock-offs). Since 2008, I've been using the Tenpa 1.36, first on my K20d, then to my K-5, and on to my K-3 (with modifications to the mounting bracket). I found it doesn't play well with my K-1, it does not appear to be full frame friendly. So I'm currently using the O-ME53, which is fine but I do miss the Tenpa. I've also ventured into the world of split focusing screens. I installed a Katzeye in my K20d and one of my K-5's (while using my Tenpa eye piece). I liked it a lot. I'd heard rumors of it affecting the AF, never experienced such an issue. And is was great with my MF lenses. My workflow these days typically includes a tripod so I've gravited to using LV for about 80% of my work. I find that LV less about the fine focusing (I do own a Hoodman, rarely use it. I find the AF to does an excellent job most of the time, and I can adjust the fine focus if I feel the need; and of course with my MF lenses, LV works best for me) but it's really about using the histogram in LV. Having that histogram information available has a big affect on the way I'll approach an image.

I'd say at the end of the day, it's really about your shooting style/workflow. If you're not hauling a tripod, LV isn't going to be the solution. If you're shooting a APS-c sensor, I can recommend the Tenpa (just don't store your camera with the eyepiece down, you could snap the eyepiece off). And if you're using a lot of MF lenses, a split focusing screen will serve you well.

So there's my 2 cents from personal experience. Hope this helps.






---------- Post added 06-25-18 at 10:17 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
* RIP KatzEye...you are sorely missed. (The company, that is. The last I heard Racheal Katz was alive and well.)
Agreed.

06-25-2018, 11:05 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Wow - A lot to respond to. First - I used to own the A* 85 f/1.4 which isn't the same as the lens you have but is similar enough I think to compare experiences. I also have really poor vision so there too we differ, my back doesn't normally give me much trouble but I know what it can feel like. I sold my A* 85 f/1.4 and bought the FA 77 f1.8 as a way of getting as close as I could to the A* experience from an AF lens. (The two are designed by the same designer and they have similar character in my opinon.)

I tried Live View, and I tried OVF, and I tried magnification, etc. I did NOT try a focusing screen replacement - although I did buy one with that in mind. The Live View was semi-successful but not overly so. Like you, I found a bit of awkwardness in live view. Overall I don't shoot super thin DOF portraits so I rarely see this problem anymore but I can remember it from the A* 85 days.

The OVF with Magnifier only works with central subjects. Maybe you should get a good Hoodman or something like that where you can treat the LCD as a viewfinder by holding that to your eye?
A hoodman was pretty much one of the LV aids I was talking about, I just don't know how gungho I'd be about being forced down that route however;

1) it's large, it will make stowing away my camera a far larger PIA, as well as potentially requiring me to replace all bags and pouches that I currently use to accommodate my new life with the hoodman...
2) using a hoodman puts me down the LV avenue, which also means a kick in the teeth to battery life and battery replacement. I'll also see myself being forced to get a battery grip, something up until now I haven't felt the need to really purchase.
3) does the hoodman work well in portrait mode or is it a landscape only (comfortable) kinda thing?
4) LV also reduces some options, like AF.C burst shooting etc

Admitting defeat and settling on a FA77 with AF doesn't feel like a good move forward for me, like I said before AF I find quite hit or miss when shooting very wide with these kind of focal ranges and apertures, I prefer to take the final fine focus stuff manually anyway. I actually find AF in LV more reliable and accurate, so that still leaves the OVF issue...

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
It was when I first started shooting with the Jupiter-9 85/2 that I realized that manual focus with the stock screen on my K10D was not going to cut it. Purchase of my KatzEye* with split-image/microprism truly changed my life as far as manual focus goes. There is a reason why classic film SLRs all had focus aides as standard equipment. Fine focus at f/2 and wider is just plain difficult without some sort of help.


Steve

* RIP KatzEye...you are sorely missed. (The company, that is. The last I heard Racheal Katz was alive and well.)
When you say 'focus aides' are you referring just directly in relation to having different focusing screens (such as split-image/microprism) than what is currently sold in our digital era cameras? Or are you referring to something more?

And with that particular focusing screen am I right in saying its the kind that when you toggle the focus barrel, when the image is lined up correctly on each left and right side, then the shot is in focus? The only issue with this is that it's useful only for subjects in the centre frame of the camera?

I have briefly heard of katzeye, knowing they are no longer in business. What focusing screen options are available for the K-1? I have heard the Canon Type S screen is used, but I don't really understand the differences between the screens, whether you're actually buying a focus screen intended for Canon, yet fits a K-1 or what not...

QuoteOriginally posted by david94903 Quote
I can't speak to your specific lens but over the last ten years I've been down the road of Focusing Screen, LV Aids, and the Tenpa 1.36 Magnifier (and other knock-offs). Since 2008, I've been using the Tenpa 1.36, first on my K20d, then to my K-5, and on to my K-3 (with modifications to the mounting bracket). I found it doesn't play well with my K-1, it does not appear to be full frame friendly. So I'm currently using the O-ME53, which is fine but I do miss the Tenpa. I've also ventured into the world of split focusing screens. I installed a Katzeye in my K20d and one of my K-5's (while using my Tenpa eye piece). I liked it a lot. I'd heard rumors of it affecting the AF, never experienced such an issue. And is was great with my MF lenses. My workflow these days typically includes a tripod so I've gravited to using LV for about 80% of my work. I find that LV less about the fine focusing (I do own a Hoodman, rarely use it. I find the AF to does an excellent job most of the time, and I can adjust the fine focus if I feel the need; and of course with my MF lenses, LV works best for me) but it's really about using the histogram in LV. Having that histogram information available has a big affect on the way I'll approach an image.

I'd say at the end of the day, it's really about your shooting style/workflow. If you're not hauling a tripod, LV isn't going to be the solution. If you're shooting a APS-c sensor, I can recommend the Tenpa (just don't store your camera with the eyepiece down, you could snap the eyepiece off). And if you're using a lot of MF lenses, a split focusing screen will serve you well.

So there's my 2 cents from personal experience. Hope this helps.






---------- Post added 06-25-18 at 10:17 PM ----------



Agreed.
Really useful feedback on the Tenpa. If you prefer the O-ME53 over it then I think that tells me everything I need to know, and can basically rule that out. Perhaps the Tenpa 1.2 (or is it 1.22?) might be better? I have heard/read that it offers substantial better IQ than the O-ME53...

Interesting to also hear how you own a hoodman but seldom use it, I fear that might also be what would happen with me should I get one.

It sounds like you've tried all the gadgetry and really a better focusing screen was the best real solution for you (it not using LV).

I actually do use a tripod a lot as well, but I wonder if a better monopod might assist me more with certain jobs. Really something with an incredible quick release system (quicker than Arca) would probably ease a lot of the pain, and if the monopod could also act as a tripod by being able to change the bottom section and add those little feet that I see that some monopods have, it might also be a semi decent tripod experience in those small lens and quiet still windy days...

Hmm... food for thought indeed.

I think I'll research the Tenpa 1.2 first, and then try and get some focusing screen assistance/knowledge.
06-26-2018, 05:40 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
A hoodman was pretty much one of the LV aids I was talking about, I just don't know how gungho I'd be about being forced down that route however;

1) it's large, it will make stowing away my camera a far larger PIA, as well as potentially requiring me to replace all bags and pouches that I currently use to accommodate my new life with the hoodman...
2) using a hoodman puts me down the LV avenue, which also means a kick in the teeth to battery life and battery replacement. I'll also see myself being forced to get a battery grip, something up until now I haven't felt the need to really purchase.
3) does the hoodman work well in portrait mode or is it a landscape only (comfortable) kinda thing?
4) LV also reduces some options, like AF.C burst shooting etc

Admitting defeat and settling on a FA77 with AF doesn't feel like a good move forward for me, like I said before AF I find quite hit or miss when shooting very wide with these kind of focal ranges and apertures, I prefer to take the final fine focus stuff manually anyway. I actually find AF in LV more reliable and accurate, so that still leaves the OVF issue...



When you say 'focus aides' are you referring just directly in relation to having different focusing screens (such as split-image/microprism) than what is currently sold in our digital era cameras? Or are you referring to something more?

And with that particular focusing screen am I right in saying its the kind that when you toggle the focus barrel, when the image is lined up correctly on each left and right side, then the shot is in focus? The only issue with this is that it's useful only for subjects in the centre frame of the camera?

I have briefly heard of katzeye, knowing they are no longer in business. What focusing screen options are available for the K-1? I have heard the Canon Type S screen is used, but I don't really understand the differences between the screens, whether you're actually buying a focus screen intended for Canon, yet fits a K-1 or what not...



Really useful feedback on the Tenpa. If you prefer the O-ME53 over it then I think that tells me everything I need to know, and can basically rule that out. Perhaps the Tenpa 1.2 (or is it 1.22?) might be better? I have heard/read that it offers substantial better IQ than the O-ME53...

Interesting to also hear how you own a hoodman but seldom use it, I fear that might also be what would happen with me should I get one.

It sounds like you've tried all the gadgetry and really a better focusing screen was the best real solution for you (it not using LV).

I actually do use a tripod a lot as well, but I wonder if a better monopod might assist me more with certain jobs. Really something with an incredible quick release system (quicker than Arca) would probably ease a lot of the pain, and if the monopod could also act as a tripod by being able to change the bottom section and add those little feet that I see that some monopods have, it might also be a semi decent tripod experience in those small lens and quiet still windy days...

Hmm... food for thought indeed.

I think I'll research the Tenpa 1.2 first, and then try and get some focusing screen assistance/knowledge.
The S type screen is indeed a Canon screen but it is modified to fit the K-1. The mods aren't extensive and some forum members have done them themselves.

Focusingscreen.com do the mods before sending the screen to you if you get a screen from them. Then all you need to do is install it, test for back/front focus and use the supplied spacers if an adjustment is needed.

Tas
06-26-2018, 07:57 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
The only issue with this is that it's useful only for subjects in the centre frame of the camera?
Yes, that is how it works....center(re) only. The technique is called focus and recompose and is the common approach by those using fixed center-point AF as well as film SLR photographers.

QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
I have briefly heard of katzeye, knowing they are no longer in business. What focusing screen options are available for the K-1? I have heard the Canon Type S screen is used, but I don't really understand the differences between the screens, whether you're actually buying a focus screen intended for Canon, yet fits a K-1 or what not...
Officially, the K-1 does not support interchangeable screens, though some users have succcessfully done so either with a self-made screen or with commercially available cut-down screens intended for other brands. At present, I believe that Canon screens are the only ones large enough to serve as donors, though salvaged screens from vintage cameras might also work. Focusingscreen.com has a selection of K-1 screens:

Focusing Screen | Pentax K-1

...and their screen comparison page (very helpful)

Focusing Screen | Comparisons


BTW...the Hoodman only really works on-tripod and looks clumsy as "H" in my humble opinion. As for the Tenpa...if the Pentax magnifier was a fail, the Tenpa is unlikely to do better.
Good luck


Steve
06-26-2018, 01:22 PM   #8
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Focusing Screen seems the next logical step since you have eliminated many other options. This may help:

S Type Screen focusingscreen.com - Unboxing, Installation and Review - PentaxForums.com

(It is an old thread)

06-26-2018, 10:05 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Really useful feedback on the Tenpa. If you prefer the O-ME53 over it then I think that tells me everything I need to know, and can basically rule that out. Perhaps the Tenpa 1.2 (or is it 1.22?) might be better? I have heard/read that it offers substantial better IQ than the O-ME53...
I haven't tried the Tenpa 1.2, so can't speak to it. I was disappointed the 1.36 didn't work so well on the FF body. I like the O-ME53, works fine but but if I didn't use LV so much, I might look for an alternative. So for me, it's less of an issue these days.

With my Hoodman, I never take it out when in the field. Last thing I need is one more "thing" to think about. I only use it for close up/macro work, with camera on the tripod, in "studio" (AKA the dining room table. We all have our rich fantasy lives, LOL!). And half the time I forget all about using it anyway. It does work though, as long as it's not ignored via operator error
06-27-2018, 02:07 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tas Quote
The S type screen is indeed a Canon screen but it is modified to fit the K-1. The mods aren't extensive and some forum members have done them themselves.

Focusingscreen.com do the mods before sending the screen to you if you get a screen from them. Then all you need to do is install it, test for back/front focus and use the supplied spacers if an adjustment is needed.

Tas
The installation part is the bit that terrifies me. I've gotten dust on my focusing screen before, I could not get it clean at all! Eventually I put the whole K-50 in for a service to rectify the damage I had caused. I'm pretty OCD, if I install a new focusing screen that has a blob of dust, I'll be pretty annoyed, no doubt removing and trying again and making matters worse and worse
Part of me feels if I went this route I'd want to install it professionally, so either a local camera shop or perhaps Pentax themselves would make the switch for me... So whilst the attractiveness is still appealing, the costs involved could get a lot steeper for me, the only way I can see myself navigate around this issue is to get proper education and solution steps from how to come back from making big mistakes successfully if during the installation process the screen takes too long to install, collects too much dust and small hair fibres etc. Currently I am seeing amateur videos and not many 'if this happens, do this' to remedy the issue etc.
(I also live in a very dusty home, I dust daily (vacuuming), it's just part and parcel of living in a tiny home, 4 people and 2 cats!).


QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Yes, that is how it works....center(re) only. The technique is called focus and recompose and is the common approach by those using fixed center-point AF as well as film SLR photographers.



Officially, the K-1 does not support interchangeable screens, though some users have succcessfully done so either with a self-made screen or with commercially available cut-down screens intended for other brands. At present, I believe that Canon screens are the only ones large enough to serve as donors, though salvaged screens from vintage cameras might also work. Focusingscreen.com has a selection of K-1 screens:

Focusing Screen | Pentax K-1

...and their screen comparison page (very helpful)

Focusing Screen | Comparisons


BTW...the Hoodman only really works on-tripod and looks clumsy as "H" in my humble opinion. As for the Tenpa...if the Pentax magnifier was a fail, the Tenpa is unlikely to do better.
Good luck


Steve
I am familiar with focus and recompose, however it is not a method typically recommended for those using very thin DoF (which is quite often how I shoot a lot of the time). By the time you recompose the focus is off, it's one of the reasons I have moved more to MF as I am faster with my shots as I don't have to mess around with AF points on the direction pad nor be limited to the coverage range of AF points. I can simply look in the screen, frame things, focus and shoot. It's just that the Pentax's OVF is difficult to judge for this style of shooting (LV much easier).

The comparison page is very helpful indeed.
So with someone like myself who likes to not being restricted to obtaining focus only on the centre part, this leaves Type A and Type S screens, correct? It looks like Pentax stock screen is either A or S as well? From the Comparison page I can't really tell a difference between type A and S screens, how do they differ? And is the Canon S Type screen similar to the Pentax screen but just emphasises the DoF more, thereby giving more feedback to the user when something is in focus (it's more dramatic etc).

Regarding the Tenpa, that's what I thought, but apparently I am wrong. I have read from a few different sources that the Tenpa is superior to the Pentax version, which is why it niggles away at me...
Tenpa 1.22 Magnifying Eyecup reviews - Pentax Camera Accessory Review Database

I've just ordered one, so the deed is done, I think I have to scratch this itch, but more importantly I have two cameras I'd like to resolve this issue with, it's not just the K-1 that I would like to improve MF on, but also my KP. So perhaps if the Tenpa 1.2 works ok, it can sit on one of the cameras and I shall still replace a focusing screen with the other (perhaps even better for comparisons sake when it comes).


QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Focusing Screen seems the next logical step since you have eliminated many other options. This may help:

S Type Screen focusingscreen.com - Unboxing, Installation and Review - PentaxForums.com

(It is an old thread)
Yes thanks, I saw that video before. The thing that worries me the most how much darker the OVF gets when stopping down. It may indeed help focusing at wider apertures than stock, but it seems it comes at a price. I don't much like the idea of doing something as invasive as swapping focusing screens if down the line I regret the swap. At least the Tenpa can be easily removed if for certain situations it hinders more than helps...

Thanks for all your help. I shall try the Tenpa 1.22 for now, report back on how it compares with the O-ME53 and if it actually aids me better in obtaining focus for shooting at those wider apertures (or if it's just a magnification of a problem that shall remain till I replace the screen...)
06-27-2018, 03:14 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
The thing that worries me the most how much darker the OVF gets when stopping down. It may indeed help focusing at wider apertures than stock, but it seems it comes at a price.
Here is a link to the Canon focus screen guide pdf:

https://www.learn.usa.canon.com/app/pdfs/quickguides/CDLC_FocusingScreens_QuickGuide.pdf

Your concerns regarding screen darkening are well-founded. The "cliff" comes at about f/4*, but at wider apertures, the S-type has remarkable "snap".


Steve

* Canon indicates a lower usability limit of f/2.8
06-27-2018, 07:29 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I

Here is a link to the Canon focus screen guide pdf:

https://www.learn.usa.canon.com/app/pdfs/quickguides/CDLC_FocusingScreens_QuickGuide.pdf

Your concerns regarding screen darkening are well-founded. The "cliff" comes at about f/4*, but at wider apertures, the S-type has remarkable "snap".


Steve

* Canon indicates a lower usability limit of f/2.8
Thanks for that Steve. It might still be a goer for me, I'm not put off by shooting f1.4-f4, tho being restricted down to f2.8 is quite tough, but if real user experience is saying up to f4 is still ok then I think I can work with that. Once I it f5.6-f8 I typically am landscaping and can use LV for those kinda situations.

QuoteOriginally posted by Tas Quote
The S type screen is indeed a Canon screen but it is modified to fit the K-1. The mods aren't extensive and some forum members have done them themselves.

Focusingscreen.com do the mods before sending the screen to you if you get a screen from them. Then all you need to do is install it, test for back/front focus and use the supplied spacers if an adjustment is needed.

Tas
You replaced your screen earlier this month or so ago did you not Tas? How are you finding it still, any 'buyers' regret, or shall we say has the focus novelty worn off and you wish you had your old screen back? Or does it still feel like the right move for you?
06-28-2018, 04:05 AM - 1 Like   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Part of me feels if I went this route I'd want to install it professionally, so either a local camera shop or perhaps Pentax themselves would make the switch for me
Pentax in Oz are CRK, when I contacted them they indicated that it couldn't be changed, I took that as they're unlikely to accept a job where they change a component that they recommend not to change. Of course, they can't say no if you don't ask.

Somewhere around here is a comment in a thread about fogging up the bathroom to do a focusing screen change. It makes sense as the dust will be captured by the moisture though I did my K-1 on the kitchen bench. I got one piece of very annoying dust but compared to the amount of dust I managed to introduce when doing the job with my K5 I saw that as a win. Now I've done this change twice in two cameras if I was to do the swap again I'd automatically remove the standard spacer and replace it with one of the small supplied ones as in both cases I needed to open things up again to swap out the spacer. Considering it's been two from two I think that approach is a gamble well worth taking as it reduces the chances of introducing dust.

QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
You replaced your screen earlier this month or so ago did you not Tas? How are you finding it still, any 'buyers' regret, or shall we say has the focus novelty worn off and you wish you had your old screen back? Or does it still feel like the right move for you?
When you combine the time I've had one installed in my K5 to my recent change to the K-1 I've spent more time using the S type screen in cameras than not (4 years versus 2). I'd not noticed the darkening when fitted in the K5 though it might be that I'd just forgotten/adjusted to it. Since doing the change in the K-1 the only time I've noticed the 'darkening' issue was with the D-FA 150-450 f4.5-5.6. It was last week whilst shooting a field hockey game at night under lights. The darker screen was noticeable when compared to shooting with the D-FA* 70-200 f2.8. It didn't stop me from shooting but as the aperture range was smaller than f4 it does validate the issue of how much darker the screen can be.

Having said this though, that doesn't mean the standard screen would have been that much better and without a back to back comparison I'm not prepared to say the screen was a poor decision. Especially when you take into consideration that my K-1 lenses are all f2.8 or faster with the exception of the 150-450. So the darkening screen is not an issue unless I'm using the one slower lens I use on the K-1. And even then in the dim light of my living room tonight I tested this theory and can tell you despite being @450mm at f5.6 in the dark I had no problem seeing that the AF was locking onto the correct point.

As you MF with wide aperture I'm only going to recommend installing one as it's made an improvement for me. If you don't think it's worth the gamble then you're going to need to continue working on technique to improve the capture rate. There is another alternative that involves swapping to an EVF though I've no experience with those to know if they would be better. And a system swap is not cheap so I'm not going down that path to find out. You could however post a query in the non-Pentax section of the forums to pose that question.

Tas
06-28-2018, 04:38 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tas Quote
Pentax in Oz are CRK, when I contacted them they indicated that it couldn't be changed, I took that as they're unlikely to accept a job where they change a component that they recommend not to change. Of course, they can't say no if you don't ask.

Somewhere around here is a comment in a thread about fogging up the bathroom to do a focusing screen change. It makes sense as the dust will be captured by the moisture though I did my K-1 on the kitchen bench. I got one piece of very annoying dust but compared to the amount of dust I managed to introduce when doing the job with my K5 I saw that as a win. Now I've done this change twice in two cameras if I was to do the swap again I'd automatically remove the standard spacer and replace it with one of the small supplied ones as in both cases I needed to open things up again to swap out the spacer. Considering it's been two from two I think that approach is a gamble well worth taking as it reduces the chances of introducing dust.



When you combine the time I've had one installed in my K5 to my recent change to the K-1 I've spent more time using the S type screen in cameras than not (4 years versus 2). I'd not noticed the darkening when fitted in the K5 though it might be that I'd just forgotten/adjusted to it. Since doing the change in the K-1 the only time I've noticed the 'darkening' issue was with the D-FA 150-450 f4.5-5.6. It was last week whilst shooting a field hockey game at night under lights. The darker screen was noticeable when compared to shooting with the D-FA* 70-200 f2.8. It didn't stop me from shooting but as the aperture range was smaller than f4 it does validate the issue of how much darker the screen can be.

Having said this though, that doesn't mean the standard screen would have been that much better and without a back to back comparison I'm not prepared to say the screen was a poor decision. Especially when you take into consideration that my K-1 lenses are all f2.8 or faster with the exception of the 150-450. So the darkening screen is not an issue unless I'm using the one slower lens I use on the K-1. And even then in the dim light of my living room tonight I tested this theory and can tell you despite being @450mm at f5.6 in the dark I had no problem seeing that the AF was locking onto the correct point.

As you MF with wide aperture I'm only going to recommend installing one as it's made an improvement for me. If you don't think it's worth the gamble then you're going to need to continue working on technique to improve the capture rate. There is another alternative that involves swapping to an EVF though I've no experience with those to know if they would be better. And a system swap is not cheap so I'm not going down that path to find out. You could however post a query in the non-Pentax section of the forums to pose that question.

Tas
Thanks for taking the time to write all that down and getting back, much appreciated.
/?
So does EVF stand for Electronic View Finder (OVF is Optical)? So that means some serious hardware changes? I want to google this more not sure where to start... 'EVF Pentax'? 'EVF Pentax K-1'? lol
06-28-2018, 04:55 AM - 1 Like   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Thanks for taking the time to write all that down and getting back, much appreciated.
/?
So does EVF stand for Electronic View Finder (OVF is Optical)? So that means some serious hardware changes? I want to google this more not sure where to start... 'EVF Pentax'? 'EVF Pentax K-1'? lol
I'm talking about a change of system, there's no FF options in Pentax with an Electronic Viewfinder. I don't know what they're like with MF at wide apertures but it had to be mentioned as an option to consider. Lots of money to be throwing away though but if the optical viewfinder is not good enough you either change the viewfinder (again a camera system change or screen in your K-1), get better through lots and lots of practice or consider mirrorless with their new-fangled dark art electronic viewfinder.


Of course you could get boring and stop down or just go AF, but where's the challenge in that?

Tas
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