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12-20-2019, 06:13 AM - 1 Like   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
If the system only allows accessing a camera and one lens quickly...whats the point?
A few comments:

I generally attach a lens case to the waist belt for even quicker access. and I use a Peak Design Capture Clip on the backpack strap, that's an invaluable tool.

With the Horizon, I'm able to carry the K-1 with 28-105 mounted, a flash, lensPen and filters, plus 2-3 primes if I pack cleverly. I can replace the primes and flash with the 60-250mm. So there's no problem with carrying a fair amount of gear. when hiking one doesn't want to carry everything, packing too heavy a bag is never a good idea.

If someone wants to bring more stuff, the company sells an insert for the top part of the backpack.

QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
I'd just take the camera and lens out of the backpack upon arrival, and use the neck strap.This backpack seems aimed at hikers with a little quick storage access thrown in. Does the camera storage decrease with their smaller bags?
The smaller (and larger) rotation180 have camera compartments that follow the general size of the bag, yes.

From my experience with camera backpacks (I've tested and reviewed at least 7 so far) the Horizon is, by far, the best hiking backpack available. There's nothing "thrown in" here.

QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
I got that it would be nice to have 1cm more room for the K-1and lens to fit easily.
When I wrote that, I used the 16-85 with the K-1. The 28-105 is a bit shorter. I still think that 1 cm would make a nice difference, but really it depends on your lens.

QuoteOriginally posted by y0chang Quote
I find most camera backpack that hold too little camera gear to use as a primary bag and hold too little camping gear to backpack with, i find it better to just put an insert that holds an extra camera and/or lens into a backpack and have the camera on a neck or handstrap.
I used to think that, but an insert has many drawbacks. Quick access is the main advantage of dedicated camera bags, and the Horizon (the whole rotation180 line really) shine in this regard. No other bag comes close to granting such quick access.

People have different definitions, and different needs, for hiking. The duration of the hike in particular will be an important element. At 34 liters, the Horizon is probably fine for 1-2 day hikes at most, if you are not new to minimal packing for hikes. It makes a great one-day bag for even the most casual hiker or families out for the day.

QuoteOriginally posted by y0chang Quote
it seems every outdoor bag seems to put the camera body at the bottom of the bag with a zipper
That's because of the weight distribution. The camera gear is usually the heaviest, so you need it near the waist for better balance, to prevent fatigue and injuries.

QuoteOriginally posted by fsge Quote
It seems I am not the only one not finding the appropriate back pack! It seems there is no super convenient offering at the moment...
I would argue that there are many, many products available today. It depends on what you need and desire.

12-20-2019, 08:06 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
I used to think that, but an insert has many drawbacks. Quick access is the main advantage of dedicated camera bags, and the Horizon (the whole rotation180 line really) shine in this regard. No other bag comes close to granting such quick access.

People have different definitions, and different needs, for hiking. The duration of the hike in particular will be an important element. At 34 liters, the Horizon is probably fine for 1-2 day hikes at most, if you are not new to minimal packing for hikes. It makes a great one-day bag for even the most casual hiker or families out for the day.
I agree that quick access is better for dayhikes and such, but I rather just have the camera on my strap outside my bag. I don't find inserts any worse or better than regular camera backpacks, you still have to shift your weight around, you still have to open some compartment and you still have to put it back in that compartment. All the Horizon series is a custom designed insert that has a quick release system so you don't have to take off your belt. What you gain in quick access, you lose in the fact you added a zipper at the bottom of the bag which leads to water ingress. The Horizon is much lighter which I commend, but the old 180 rotation pro when I was looking was 5.9 pounds....that is more than my tent+stakes+pads, and I don't even have the uberlight gear of some backpackers. I come in this as a huge Thinktank fan (the company behind Mindshift).

QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
That's because of the weight distribution. The camera gear is usually the heaviest, so you need it near the waist for better balance, to prevent fatigue and injuries.
In backpacking, I rather have my our heaviest weight between my shoulder blades. Putting a heavy weight at the bottom of the bag changes your center of gravity which leads to fatigue or worse inbalance when scrambling. You can mitigate this with a belt strap that distributes weight but then you are undoing belt straps to get to the side access or taking it off to get to more gear...which defeats the whole point of quick access pockets. But again everyone has preferences on their priorities. I find gear safety and weight distribution my priorities, other people will have different ones. I have the two Lowepro Photo Sport AW. One is a Flipside with back access and the other is a Lowepro Photo Sport AW 200 daypack with sling style access. Both backpacks have advantages and disadvantages.
12-20-2019, 08:30 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by y0chang Quote
All the Horizon series is a custom designed insert that has a quick release system so you don't have to take off your belt. What you gain in quick access, you lose in the fact you added a zipper at the bottom of the bag which leads to water ingress.
The zipped hip bag slides completely into the backpack, no zipper exposed.
12-20-2019, 10:21 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
A few comments:

I generally attach a lens case to the waist belt for even quicker access. and I use a Peak Design Capture Clip on the backpack strap, that's an invaluable tool.

With the Horizon, I'm able to carry the K-1 with 28-105 mounted, a flash, lensPen and filters, plus 2-3 primes if I pack cleverly. I can replace the primes and flash with the 60-250mm. So there's no problem with carrying a fair amount of gear. when hiking one doesn't want to carry everything, packing too heavy a bag is never a good idea.

If someone wants to bring more stuff, the company sells an insert for the top part of the backpack.



The smaller (and larger) rotation180 have camera compartments that follow the general size of the bag, yes.

From my experience with camera backpacks (I've tested and reviewed at least 7 so far) the Horizon is, by far, the best hiking backpack available. There's nothing "thrown in" here.



When I wrote that, I used the 16-85 with the K-1. The 28-105 is a bit shorter. I still think that 1 cm would make a nice difference, but really it depends on your lens.



I used to think that, but an insert has many drawbacks. Quick access is the main advantage of dedicated camera bags, and the Horizon (the whole rotation180 line really) shine in this regard. No other bag comes close to granting such quick access.

People have different definitions, and different needs, for hiking. The duration of the hike in particular will be an important element. At 34 liters, the Horizon is probably fine for 1-2 day hikes at most, if you are not new to minimal packing for hikes. It makes a great one-day bag for even the most casual hiker or families out for the day.



That's because of the weight distribution. The camera gear is usually the heaviest, so you need it near the waist for better balance, to prevent fatigue and injuries.



I would argue that there are many, many products available today. It depends on what you need and desire.
A camera + 2 or 3 lenses and a tripod is fine. My hiking only involves getting some where to photograph. No camping. Besides camera equipment, only carry water, munchies, and perhaps a rain jacket or coat. Bet a fair number of photographers are in the same boat. For my needs the backpack portion seems large vs the camera portion. Wish they would make a small backpack with larger camera bag section.

Thanks for all the info. This is the closest commercial product that would work for me. Just not sure it beats stuffing a normal small backpack with a standard camera bag. Pro: it's faster and doesn't require taking off to access camera. Con: it requires carrying a bigger, heavier backpack and using a rotation bag that probably doesn't offer quite the storage or work flow of favorite camera bags.

Thanks,
barondla

12-20-2019, 12:01 PM - 1 Like   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by y0chang Quote
you still have to shift your weight around, you still have to open some compartment and you still have to put it back in that compartment. All the Horizon series is a custom designed insert that has a quick release system so you don't have to take off your belt.
I beg to differ. The rotation180's main perks are that you don't have to remove your backpack AT ALL. It remains on your back, the shoulder straps well adjusted, no temporary weight on your shoulders, no removal of the waist belt. You can even walk with the camera compartment to the front if that's your thing. It's a revelation when compared to the next best thing (side access, which requires that you remove the waist belt, then remove a shoulder strap, swing the bag to the front having all the weight on one shoulder, balance the bag while you fumble inside, etc).

QuoteOriginally posted by y0chang Quote
What you gain in quick access, you lose in the fact you added a zipper at the bottom of the bag which leads to water ingress.
when inside the bag, the camera insert is better protected. When outside, it's no worse than any other bag, since it's self-contained. And they even sell a dedicated rain cover if you're really worried.

QuoteOriginally posted by y0chang Quote
You can mitigate this with a belt strap that distributes weight but then you are undoing belt straps to get to the side access or taking it off to get to more gear...which defeats the whole point of quick access pockets.
As I wrote above, that's the whole point of the rotation180. You don't have to undo any straps, simply lift a tab.

I'm not a sales rep for Mindshift Gear. Everyone's needs are different. I'm just trying to make it clear how the system works and what its advantages are.

QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
For my needs the backpack portion seems large vs the camera portion. Wish they would make a small backpack with larger camera bag section.
The solution might be to use their smaller rotation180 bag, and add a lens case on the waist belt.

I understand that you find the Horizon a bit large, and indeed it can be. It's not perfect for everyone, of course, but it does get a lot of things right.
12-20-2019, 12:32 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote



The solution might be to use their smaller rotation180 bag, and add a lens case on the waist belt.

I understand that you find the Horizon a bit large, and indeed it can be. It's not perfect for everyone, of course, but it does get a lot of things right.
Lens case could work well. I'm still trying to picture how the camera bag works. Basically it stores in the bottom of the backpack, then pulls out and slides around the waist belt to shooting postion? If so, does an empty backpack add support to the camera bag when docked inside? In other words is carrying camera equipment in stored backpack camera bag more comfortable than carrying bag on a waist belt?

Thanks,
barondla
12-20-2019, 01:35 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
Lens case could work well. I'm still trying to picture how the camera bag works. Basically it stores in the bottom of the backpack, then pulls out and slides around the waist belt to shooting postion? If so, does an empty backpack add support to the camera bag when docked inside? In other words is carrying camera equipment in stored backpack camera bag more comfortable than carrying bag on a waist belt?

Thanks,
barondla
Yes, it slides into a "pocket", which has a flap on one side and otherwise completely encloses the camera bag, which is one unit with the waist belt. Of course, there is a slit for the waist belt opposite the flap as well. It's a snug fit, so backpack and camera compartment really form one unit. This way, you can really adjust the whole backpack for the usual target of ~2/3 belt and ~1/3 shoulder load and the camera compartment doesn't sag like a pure belt pack.

12-20-2019, 01:42 PM - 1 Like   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
I'm still trying to picture how the camera bag works. Basically it stores in the bottom of the backpack, then pulls out and slides around the waist belt to shooting postion?
Correct. The whole waist belt rotates, but since there is lo loose end the comfort and support does not change.

QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
If so, does an empty backpack add support to the camera bag when docked inside?
Yes. The frame of the bag is somewhat rigid (as it should be) so the whole structure supports the camera compartment.

QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
In other words is carrying camera equipment in stored backpack camera bag more comfortable than carrying bag on a waist belt?
Absolutely, because the camera compartment rests inside the bag, and the bag is supported by the whole bag harness (shoulder straps, waist belt).

When inside the backpack, it feels as if you're wearing one regular backpack with excellent support (as it should for a hiking backpack). When you rotate the camera section, the whole support does not change at all, except that you do feel the camera compartment's weight shift to the front (of course). But the whole bag remains firmly in place, the waist belt still bears part of the weight as you'd expect from a regular bag, the shoulder straps remain exactly in place. On your back, there is no difference at all whether the camera compartment is inside or outside.

I generally use a Peak Design Range Pouch (for lenses) if I want to carry a lens outside the camera compartment. Think Tank has a few interesting options also, as do others. As long as the attachment loop can be fully opened (via velcro usually) you're good to go. Some lens cases require you to slide the belt inside, that won't work as well.
12-20-2019, 02:56 PM - 1 Like   #69
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I read the review of the Mindshift backpack and it looks like the sort of thing I'm looking for for hikes of a few hours where you just have camera gear and a jacket, snacks and drinks etc. I've avoided backpacks in the past because of the obvious limitations with access but Mindshift's idea looks well-thought out. I'm going to check one out before our next trip.

And thanks to the person who did the review - it was incredibly thorough and helpful.
12-20-2019, 03:20 PM - 1 Like   #70
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I have a Lowepro Nova 170 AW and that model has a zipper and clasps ,haven't lost anything yet.......I just need something a 'bit' bigger.
It holds 15 ltd , 21 ltd , 40 ltd , 70 ltd , 10 - 17 fish and F 135 with one mounted to camera but now I also have a 31 ltd and 50 FA so they all can't fit. Zooms thats an all other problem so they don't get out much.


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12-21-2019, 01:47 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
the waist belt still bears part of the weight as you'd expect from a regular bag
The problem for some (me) is that a properly designed and adjusted backpack is supposed to transfer virtually all of the weight to the hips via the hip belt. The shoulder straps are for stability only. I passed on this pack previously because a user review complained about shoulder soreness after a number of miles. I appreciate your candid review and experience: it seams to confirm that user review.
12-22-2019, 09:56 AM   #72
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I'm kind of liking the size of the Mindshift 22. Think it would fit my short body better. Not sure it will fit the K-1 and lenses. Haven't had enough time to decide which lenses I would want to carry. Most likely the 31, 43, 77, and 100 macro. Thankfully all small lenses. Add some kind of lens case if needed, probably not Mindshift's. I hate drawstring cases. Will have a look at Peak Design lens cases.
Thanks,
barondla
12-22-2019, 04:31 PM - 1 Like   #73
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I found a ' bigger bag ' a Lowepro 200 AW 11 its big alright makes the 170 look like a' toy' bag.....if there was only something between them.......the search the search


Dave
12-22-2019, 09:24 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by y0chang Quote
Do people have favorite bags for Pentax Gear? I find most bags don't fit Pentax small primes well without a lot of customization. I end up with a lot of dead space in the corners or adding extra padding.

For me it the same manufacturer created both my favorite and worst bag I've purchased:
Best bag:
Think Tank Retrospective 7 - Wanted a replacement for my Tamrac Shoulder Bag, and this bag has it in spades. Tough, well sized, great details, perfect size for photo walks. It fits a K-1 sized camera without being oversized.
With your restriction to Pentax, I would also select a "think Tank" bag as 'best bag' {left}, but for a different reason - I am quite sure all by this company are well-made and will last.

unfortunately, my 'worst bag' {right} selection is labeled "Pentax" - but it started unraveling almost as soon as I got it. It does have a cool end pocket to hold water, though.
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12-27-2019, 09:16 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
With your restriction to Pentax, I would also select a "think Tank" bag as 'best bag' {left}, but for a different reason - I am quite sure all by this company are well-made and will last.

unfortunately, my 'worst bag' {right} selection is labeled "Pentax" - but it started unraveling almost as soon as I got it. It does have a cool end pocket to hold water, though.
Ha, I have two of those "worst bags"! Mine must have rolled off the line on a better day than yours, though; one is starting to unravel a bit, but that's after quite a bit of use by my wife. Can't complain too much, since they were both freebies. I actually used it over Christmas, since it's the perfect size to fit my gripped KP + Tamron 17-50 and spare batteries. I use the "water pocket" for an extra prime, though.
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